what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

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DeeCee
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby DeeCee » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:40 am

rman1201 wrote:Has anyone ever noticed the major gender differences on TLS? Pretty much every argument on here is 100% male, the women are pretty chill.


I try to get in on an argument once in a while......but I don't get all crazy about it or get personal because I think it's ridiculous to be an asshole just because I'm online (female here)

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NZA
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby NZA » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:41 am

rman1201 wrote:Has anyone ever noticed the major gender differences on TLS in life? Pretty much every argument on here is 100% male, the women are pretty chill.


FTFY

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lisjjen
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby lisjjen » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:41 am

rman1201 wrote:Has anyone ever noticed the major gender differences on TLS? Pretty much every argument on here is 100% male, the women are pretty chill.


I would argue against that argument by arguing that I am chill as well. I think men just love casual arguments.

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DeeCee
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby DeeCee » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:41 am

NZA wrote:
rman1201 wrote:Has anyone ever noticed the major gender differences on TLS in life? Pretty much every argument on here is 100% male, the women are pretty chill.


FTFY


TCR haha

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lisjjen
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby lisjjen » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:43 am

flcath wrote:I was agreeing w/ you, dawg. Your numbers are inflated, but their's are just made up.


I caught that. What I meant to say is, if I read one more research journal article, my brain's going to turn into pancake batter. Thank you for a short spar to distract me, and I apologize if my arguments start coming apart a little bit.

flcath
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby flcath » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:50 am

lisjjen wrote:
flcath wrote:I was agreeing w/ you, dawg. Your numbers are inflated, but their's are just made up.


I caught that. What I meant to say is, if I read one more research journal article, my brain's going to turn into pancake batter. Thank you for a short spar to distract me, and I apologize if my arguments start coming apart a little bit.

Not a problem, brother.

Flame on you reading "one more research journal article" though. Everyone knows no one reads those (judges just skim for the main point, and profs just pretend to so that other profs will pretend to read theirs... it's what our tuition goes to).

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lisjjen
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby lisjjen » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:53 am

flcath wrote:Flame on you reading "one more research journal article" though. Everyone knows no one reads those (judges just skim for the main point, and profs just pretend to so that other profs will pretend to read theirs... it's what our tuition goes to).


But one trick of the trade is, if you read the whole article, you can cite the sources that they cite without actually having to read them. A good article will actually cut your research time down by 1/4th to 1/3rd.

flcath
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby flcath » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:57 am

lisjjen wrote:
flcath wrote:Flame on you reading "one more research journal article" though. Everyone knows no one reads those (judges just skim for the main point, and profs just pretend to so that other profs will pretend to read theirs... it's what our tuition goes to).


But one trick of the trade is, if you read the whole article, you can cite the sources that they cite without actually having to read them. A good article will actually cut your research time down by 1/4th to 1/3rd.

You know I have always heard this (particularly in the context of LW, where you've gotta brief a case in an area of law you don't know dick about), but I've always lacked the discipline to actually do it.

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fatduck
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby fatduck » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:15 am

flcath wrote:
lisjjen wrote:
flcath wrote:Flame on you reading "one more research journal article" though. Everyone knows no one reads those (judges just skim for the main point, and profs just pretend to so that other profs will pretend to read theirs... it's what our tuition goes to).


But one trick of the trade is, if you read the whole article, you can cite the sources that they cite without actually having to read them. A good article will actually cut your research time down by 1/4th to 1/3rd.

You know I have always heard this (particularly in the context of LW, where you've gotta brief a case in an area of law you don't know dick about), but I've always lacked the discipline to actually do it.


I have written entire research papers this way. It is awesome.

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swampthang
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby swampthang » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:13 am

rman1201 wrote:
LoyalRebel wrote:As ridiculous as the "big law or bust" idea is, I hardly expect anything more from a bunch of future lawyers.

"Run along now, you'll never make it. Leave the law school to me; I'm better than you" is the typical response you'll get when you mention this subject.

I think the truly great people end up being those who aren't phased by having the odds stacked against them.


Just don't complain if when things end up in accordance with the odds.


You're welcome to look for yourself if you still think you're "the Chosen One".

joshlyman
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby joshlyman » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:26 am

look coming from someone who can't go big law and had to deal with these same issues, its honestly
just that big law is the big leagues. Its prestigious and rewarding. If this site was about baseball do you think
people would be posting things like "dude what batting average do i need to have to be drafted to the new haven ravens"
No, they would be like "yankees or bust"
I know thats a lame analogy but you have to deal with it. Welcome to law, its a hierarchical profession there will always be
people doing more "prestigious" things than you, and saying that these prestigious things are the "only" way to go. You have to define what you want for yourself in the end and whether or not you can feasibly do it without drowning in debt.

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swampthang
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby swampthang » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:37 am

joshlyman wrote:look coming from someone who can't go big law and had to deal with these same issues, its honestly
just that big law is the big leagues. Its prestigious and rewarding. If this site was about baseball do you think
people would be posting things like "dude what batting average do i need to have to be drafted to the new haven ravens"
No, they would be like "yankees or bust"
I know thats a lame analogy but you have to deal with it. Welcome to law, its a hierarchical profession there will always be
people doing more "prestigious" things than you, and saying that these prestigious things are the "only" way to go. You have to define what you want for yourself in the end and whether or not you can feasibly do it without drowning in debt.


No, that's actually a really fantastic and totally apt analogy. Natural that people would be more concerned with the Red Sox than the Alabama Snowbears. Although it's not just prestige, also $$$ too- same holds with the baseball analogy as the show pays a lot more then A ball.

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RVP11
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby RVP11 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:19 am

lisjjen wrote:The term "ITE" gets abused worse than Rihanna. To be clear, the recession started in December 2007. I cited 2009. It's not like I was citing 2002's numbers.


The class of 2009 interviewed in fall 2007 (GOOD TIMES) and were SAs in summer 2008 (BEFORE IMPENDING APOCALYPSE). That's not ITE.

cowgirl_bebop
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby cowgirl_bebop » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:59 am

joshlyman wrote:look coming from someone who can't go big law and had to deal with these same issues, its honestly
just that big law is the big leagues. Its prestigious and rewarding. If this site was about baseball do you think
people would be posting things like "dude what batting average do i need to have to be drafted to the new haven ravens"
No, they would be like "yankees or bust"
I know thats a lame analogy but you have to deal with it. Welcome to law, its a hierarchical profession there will always be
people doing more "prestigious" things than you, and saying that these prestigious things are the "only" way to go. You have to define what you want for yourself in the end and whether or not you can feasibly do it without drowning in debt.

I'm with this.

"Big Law or Bust" seems to fit two types of people: the ultra ambitious and the ultra indebted. If you are getting a good scholarship to a decent school, you may not need (or want) a big law gig to finance your debt after graduation. Mid-law may be more than enough for your to repay whatever small loans you have and live comfortably. Of course most of us dream of making it big and landing one of those nice $160K jobs right out of law school, but for most people that is not a reality. So unless you are going to a T6, or MAYBE a T14, taking out a shit load of loans knowing that the only way you can pay it back is if you get big law is a bad idea.

If you, like me, are not looking at a T14 offer or a simply debt-averse, go to a strong regional T1 on a scholarship. That way, if you are one of the sorry saps that dont get big law, you wont have to sell your firstborn child to pay off your debt. Plenty of people make a decent living without big law because they are not up to their eyeballs in debt.

FiveSermon
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby FiveSermon » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:10 pm

cowgirl_bebop wrote:
joshlyman wrote:look coming from someone who can't go big law and had to deal with these same issues, its honestly
just that big law is the big leagues. Its prestigious and rewarding. If this site was about baseball do you think
people would be posting things like "dude what batting average do i need to have to be drafted to the new haven ravens"
No, they would be like "yankees or bust"
I know thats a lame analogy but you have to deal with it. Welcome to law, its a hierarchical profession there will always be
people doing more "prestigious" things than you, and saying that these prestigious things are the "only" way to go. You have to define what you want for yourself in the end and whether or not you can feasibly do it without drowning in debt.

I'm with this.

"Big Law or Bust" seems to fit two types of people: the ultra ambitious and the ultra indebted. If you are getting a good scholarship to a decent school, you may not need (or want) a big law gig to finance your debt after graduation. Mid-law may be more than enough for your to repay whatever small loans you have and live comfortably. Of course most of us dream of making it big and landing one of those nice $160K jobs right out of law school, but for most people that is not a reality. So unless you are going to a T6, or MAYBE a T14, taking out a shit load of loans knowing that the only way you can pay it back is if you get big law is a bad idea.

If you, like me, are not looking at a T14 offer or a simply debt-averse, go to a strong regional T1 on a scholarship. That way, if you are one of the sorry saps that dont get big law, you wont have to sell your firstborn child to pay off your debt. Plenty of people make a decent living without big law because they are not up to their eyeballs in debt.


While this may be fair, you should also realize that most law students are ultra indebted. And most law students do not get big law.

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lisjjen
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby lisjjen » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:12 pm

FiveSermon wrote:While this may be fair, you should also realize that most law students are ultra indebted. And most law students do not get big law.


What about students in at a T10?

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fatduck
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby fatduck » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:13 pm

lisjjen wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:While this may be fair, you should also realize that most law students are ultra indebted. And most law students do not get big law.


What about students in at a T10?


nope, only T9

FiveSermon
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:18 pm

fatduck wrote:
lisjjen wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:While this may be fair, you should also realize that most law students are ultra indebted. And most law students do not get big law.


What about students in at a T10?


nope, only T9


nope, only T8

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bk1
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby bk1 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:22 pm

what is this i dont even

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Veyron
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby Veyron » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:46 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
fatduck wrote:
lisjjen wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:While this may be fair, you should also realize that most law students are ultra indebted. And most law students do not get big law.


What about students in at a T10?


nope, only T9


nope, only T8


*Cough* I think you meanith T-7 my esteemed sir.

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ahduth
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby ahduth » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:52 pm

Veyron wrote:*Cough* I think you meanith T-7 my esteemed sir.


T6 plus Berkeley?

09042014
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:25 pm

ITE Boalt is a Gtown peer.

flcath
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby flcath » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:35 pm

Desert Fox wrote:ITE Boalt Berkeley is a Gtown peer.

Get with the times.

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ahduth
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby ahduth » Sat Feb 26, 2011 2:49 pm

flcath wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:ITE Boalt Berkeley is a Gtown peer.

Get with the times.


So T6 basically. Glad we sorted that out. Thanks for playing everyone.

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Attorney
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Re: what's up with this "big law or bust" idea?

Postby Attorney » Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:36 pm

:arrow:

Big Law is extremely overrated... even if you could get that "golden ticket", would you want to work 80 hours a week for some dick you probably don't like at all and who probably doesn't like you either? The chosen few of you are going to have so much fun! Especially the ones with too much debt (T14 @ sticker) to quit your jobs however much you despise your near-lifeless existences.

There's a reason that Big Law has such high attrition. It's not what people think it will be. It's having no time but to work and sleep, as your wife/girlfriend spends your "$160k" and later divorces you after having an affair whilst you are at work from 8 am to 11 pm. She'll get all the assets from income you earned between 8 am and 3:30 pm. The rest is all yours, just as if you worked 40 hours like a regular person. Yay!

When you lack the will to carry on, remember my warning.

:mrgreen:


A bit of a repost above, I should have posted that here, more on-topic, instead of in a school-specific thread. Glad I saw this enlightening topic!
Last edited by Attorney on Sun Feb 27, 2011 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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