Tuition - How much is too much?

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swampthang
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby swampthang » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:10 pm

Dude, if you really have a decent accounting internship in Dallas (I guess I just naturally assume Big 4 public accounting, but it might be lower down the ladder, still), parlay that into a job, work in tax accounting for a few years, retake the LSAT a couple times, and go somewhere better. THAT's how you create a tax niche: not by pretending that anyone outside of the Deep South is going to look at your resume, see Ole Miss, and say "oh, that's a Top 20 accounting program!".

As is, you're looking at wasting 3 years and $$$ for what? To be in the same position you could be in now as an accountant? Make it worth your while if you're going to do it.

Gleason
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby Gleason » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:50 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Gleason wrote:People all too often shout RETAKE to people's questions asking for advice. It's tiresome and unhelpful.

With that said, RETAKE is really the only good advice here.

Pot, meet kettle.


Clever.

Romothesavior, meet irony.

LoyalRebel
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby LoyalRebel » Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:49 am

I appreciate all the recent serious responses. You all raise good points. In fact, I admit I might look a little foolish going this direction, but I know I can be successful.

I hope I don't sound too sappy here, but I come from a completely economically devastated area (think Hurricane Katrina and the BP oil spill) and am the oldest of 6 kids, my dad doesn't make shit for a living. I started scraping shit off dishes at restaurants when I was 15, bought my own car when I was 19, and have done pretty damn well for myself in college. I've been making something out of nothing for as long as I can remember and I would never be content to be an accountant.

A lot of you people can sit around while your parents pay $2,000 for your LSAT course, and that's fine. Just don't act all arrogant about it and tell me I can't do this.

I suppose, though, in the interest of honesty, I should clarify that I didn't take the LSAT completely cold-turkey. I had taken a practice exam administered by Kaplan 4 months prior, so I had some limited familiarity with the structure of the problems. While I honestly don't think a 170 is going to happen, I do feel I'm capable of more than a 157, and I think that will be evident in my class ranking.

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General Tso
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby General Tso » Tue Feb 22, 2011 1:00 am

LoyalRebel wrote:A lot of you people can sit around while your parents pay $2,000 for your LSAT course, and that's fine. Just don't act all arrogant about it and tell me I can't do this.


It doesn't require that...with your accounting degree you can easily find a job in Dallas, New Orleans, Atlanta, etc. Plan on working for two years. Year 1: take LSAT prep course and take the LSAT. Year 2: apply.

You'll have some work experience (which will help with your legal job applications), you'll have some savings, and most importantly, you will have a much better LSAT score that will lead to a better school, a better career, and potentially more scholarship money.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:04 am

LoyalRebel wrote:I appreciate all the recent serious responses. You all raise good points. In fact, I admit I might look a little foolish going this direction, but I know I can be successful.

I hope I don't sound too sappy here, but I come from a completely economically devastated area (think Hurricane Katrina and the BP oil spill) and am the oldest of 6 kids, my dad doesn't make shit for a living. I started scraping shit off dishes at restaurants when I was 15, bought my own car when I was 19, and have done pretty damn well for myself in college. I've been making something out of nothing for as long as I can remember and I would never be content to be an accountant.

A lot of you people can sit around while your parents pay $2,000 for your LSAT course, and that's fine. Just don't act all arrogant about it and tell me I can't do this.

I suppose, though, in the interest of honesty, I should clarify that I didn't take the LSAT completely cold-turkey. I had taken a practice exam administered by Kaplan 4 months prior, so I had some limited familiarity with the structure of the problems. While I honestly don't think a 170 is going to happen, I do feel I'm capable of more than a 157, and I think that will be evident in my class ranking.


Once again, I'm still a little unclear as to why you won't direct this hard work and supposed foresight into scoring higher on the LSAT. Maybe you will be successful with the current path you're taking...but it'd be the longer, harder way. Why do that?

beaubois
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby beaubois » Tue Feb 22, 2011 2:11 am

.
Last edited by beaubois on Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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swampthang
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby swampthang » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:02 am

DoubleChecks wrote:
LoyalRebel wrote:I appreciate all the recent serious responses. You all raise good points. In fact, I admit I might look a little foolish going this direction, but I know I can be successful.

I hope I don't sound too sappy here, but I come from a completely economically devastated area (think Hurricane Katrina and the BP oil spill) and am the oldest of 6 kids, my dad doesn't make shit for a living. I started scraping shit off dishes at restaurants when I was 15, bought my own car when I was 19, and have done pretty damn well for myself in college. I've been making something out of nothing for as long as I can remember and I would never be content to be an accountant.

A lot of you people can sit around while your parents pay $2,000 for your LSAT course, and that's fine. Just don't act all arrogant about it and tell me I can't do this.

I suppose, though, in the interest of honesty, I should clarify that I didn't take the LSAT completely cold-turkey. I had taken a practice exam administered by Kaplan 4 months prior, so I had some limited familiarity with the structure of the problems. While I honestly don't think a 170 is going to happen, I do feel I'm capable of more than a 157, and I think that will be evident in my class ranking.


Once again, I'm still a little unclear as to why you won't direct this hard work and supposed foresight into scoring higher on the LSAT. Maybe you will be successful with the current path you're taking...but it'd be the longer, harder way. Why do that?


Or why you wouldn't direct this plate-scraping work ethic to a decent paying accounting job instead of gambling on debt at a TTT. Perhaps again I'm inferring things that aren't really there. This internship in Dallas, is it with a decent firm? Does it lead to a job that pays >$40k? If so, I don't see why you wouldn't do that. As everyone else has said, take the sure thing, study (this can be done with a library card and some self-discipline, not the ridiculous prep class straw man you propose), retake. A few questions, a few points, could make a huge difference as far as your options. Plus, since you express a lot of concerns about money, you'd have a great backup in the form of a salary in case you decide school just ain't for you.

Also, I think you mentioned that you don't really like accounting. If I'm not misquoting, then how do you expect to like tax law? Get some experience, make some money, retake, that's really the way to go. If you're hellbent on school, given your debt aversion, stay in Oxford.

One last curiosity, you said you intend to be in the top 10-15% of your law class (doesn't everyone?). Where do you rank in your current class with your 3.7 GPA?

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nyankees51
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby nyankees51 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:44 am

OP to tell you the truth I was in a similar position to you with an Accounting UG and a cold-turkey LSAT of 158. I took a year to get my MS in Accounting and study for the retake bumped my score 10 points and it has made all the difference.

I think the best thing is to get a Masters while studying for a retake because than you are in an ideal position because you can sit for your CPA exam. Also intern with a CPA firm while in grad school so you get experience. This way you will always have a fall back option that is decent even if law school doesn't work out. Besides you say you think you need the LLM but many firms won't care about the LLM as much based on my research as long as you have a CPA.

Also while tax law is in better shape than other areas of practice there still isn't an abundance of jobs. There are plenty of people coming from T1 and T14 that want to do tax too. I know you don't want to delay a year but seriously consider furthering the Accounting background first. I've spoken with many lawyers who say that its great because worst case scenario it is a good fall back option if you can't get big law or even midlaw.

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JazzOne
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby JazzOne » Tue Feb 22, 2011 10:52 am

LoyalRebel wrote:While I honestly don't think a 170 is going to happen, I do feel I'm capable of more than a 157, and I think that will be evident in my class ranking.

I agree. This shows that you are lazy, and you will therefore finish below median.

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NZA
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby NZA » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:04 am

Go to Ole Miss and got that awesome degree in SPACE LAW.

Guarantee it's on the up and come.

emmbar53
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby emmbar53 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:38 am

This whole thread feels like when a 10th grader's girlfriend moves to a new state, and his wiser, more experienced parents tell him it is unlikely to work and he should just end it before it becomes unbearably painful. Then the 10th grader is like "You guys don't understand. You haven't felt what I feel. We're gonna call each other every night, and we'll see each other once a month. We're the exception. We're gonna make it!"

Oh, and the 10th grader won't take retake the LSAT.

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swampthang
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby swampthang » Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:42 am

emmbar53 wrote:This whole thread feels like when a 10th grader's girlfriend moves to a new state, and his wiser, more experienced parents tell him it is unlikely to work and he should just end it before it becomes unbearably painful. Then the 10th grader is like "You guys don't understand. You haven't felt what I feel. We're gonna call each other every night, and we'll see each other once a month. We're the exception. We're gonna make it!"

Oh, and the 10th grader won't take retake the LSAT.


Yeah, I felt that way, too! As if other people don't come from crappy areas, can't afford test prep, and had to work as a dishwasher when they were kids. Big deal. I had my first job when I was 12 and you don't see my going on like I'm some special case. For the record, I have totally been that...12th grader at least. Time learns you somethin' fierce.

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romothesavior
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby romothesavior » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:15 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:Once again, I'm still a little unclear as to why you won't direct this hard work and supposed foresight into scoring higher on the LSAT. Maybe you will be successful with the current path you're taking...but it'd be the longer, harder way. Why do that?

This times infinity.

So many 0Ls think they're so smart, so hard-working, and so determined (and I guess they think their future classmates are not?). But if this is true, then why do they blow off the most important test of their life? How can someone say, "I'm smart and hard-working" when 1) their LSAT score indicates the opposite and 2) the effort they put in indicates the opposite.

OP, if you're as smart and hard-working as you think you are, then quit being lazy and study for the damn LSAT. Studying hard for the LSAT doesn't require thousands of dollars, it requires at most a couple hundred bucks and (more importantly) 2-3 months of your life. If you want to be a lawyer and actually have decent job prospects, then you suck it up and do it. Most of the people on TLS who did well on the LSAT spend hours a day studying for 2-3 months, and some of them had hard backgrounds and big life responsibilities too. But you know what? They want to be lawyers, so they took this test seriously and made it a priority. If you're serious about being a lawyer, I suggest you do the same. I do not exaggerate when I say it is the most important test of your life. A few points can be worth tens of thousands of dollars and far better job prospects. If you are so smart and hard-working, then channel that on the LSAT. It is far, FAR easier to improve your LSAT score a few points than to bank on doing well in law school.

If you want to go to Ole Miss, then that's fine... I guess it is cheap and maybe it does well in Mississippi? I dunno. But you better lose this cocky attitude, because odds are pretty strongly against you that you're going to finish in the top 10%. That's just a cold hard reality of the law school curve, you and better embrace it ASAP.

Good luck.

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FuManChusco
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby FuManChusco » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:47 pm

romothesavior wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:Once again, I'm still a little unclear as to why you won't direct this hard work and supposed foresight into scoring higher on the LSAT. Maybe you will be successful with the current path you're taking...but it'd be the longer, harder way. Why do that?

This times infinity.

So many 0Ls think they're so smart, so hard-working, and so determined (and I guess they think their future classmates are not?). But if this is true, then why do they blow off the most important test of their life? How can someone say, "I'm smart and hard-working" when 1) their LSAT score indicates the opposite and 2) the effort they put in indicates the opposite.

OP, if you're as smart and hard-working as you think you are, then quit being lazy and study for the damn LSAT. Studying hard for the LSAT doesn't require thousands of dollars, it requires at most a couple hundred bucks and (more importantly) 2-3 months of your life. If you want to be a lawyer and actually have decent job prospects, then you suck it up and do it. Most of the people on TLS who did well on the LSAT spend hours a day studying for 2-3 months, and some of them had hard backgrounds and big life responsibilities too. But you know what? They want to be lawyers, so they took this test seriously and made it a priority. If you're serious about being a lawyer, I suggest you do the same. I do not exaggerate when I say it is the most important test of your life. A few points can be worth tens of thousands of dollars and far better job prospects. If you are so smart and hard-working, then channel that on the LSAT. It is far, FAR easier to improve your LSAT score a few points than to bank on doing well in law school.

If you want to go to Ole Miss, then that's fine... I guess it is cheap and maybe it does well in Mississippi? I dunno. But you better lose this cocky attitude, because odds are pretty strongly against you that you're going to finish in the top 10%. That's just a cold hard reality of the law school curve, you and better embrace it ASAP.

Good luck.


Nice post, but I have to....

tl;dr retake

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fatduck
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby fatduck » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:48 pm

Pendragon wrote:Should go to the Brown University School of Law. Tuition is nonexistent, and they have financial aid! And check out their admissions blog! http://brownuniversityschooloflaw.blogspot.com/


this is the funniest post i have ever read on tls

they should hire you to run this site

your brilliance shines brighter than a thousand suns

loverofjustice
Posts: 5
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby loverofjustice » Tue Feb 22, 2011 6:53 pm

fatduck wrote:
Pendragon wrote:Should go to the Brown University School of Law. Tuition is nonexistent, and they have financial aid! And check out their admissions blog! http://brownuniversityschooloflaw.blogspot.com/


this is the funniest post i have ever read on tls

they should hire you to run this site

your brilliance shines brighter than a thousand suns


Haha, that blog is great. I definitely lol'd.

cowgirl_bebop
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby cowgirl_bebop » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:35 pm

LoyalRebel wrote:I appreciate all the recent serious responses. You all raise good points. In fact, I admit I might look a little foolish going this direction, but I know I can be successful.

I hope I don't sound too sappy here, but I come from a completely economically devastated area (think Hurricane Katrina and the BP oil spill) and am the oldest of 6 kids, my dad doesn't make shit for a living. I started scraping shit off dishes at restaurants when I was 15, bought my own car when I was 19, and have done pretty damn well for myself in college. I've been making something out of nothing for as long as I can remember and I would never be content to be an accountant.

A lot of you people can sit around while your parents pay $2,000 for your LSAT course, and that's fine. Just don't act all arrogant about it and tell me I can't do this.

I suppose, though, in the interest of honesty, I should clarify that I didn't take the LSAT completely cold-turkey. I had taken a practice exam administered by Kaplan 4 months prior, so I had some limited familiarity with the structure of the problems. While I honestly don't think a 170 is going to happen, I do feel I'm capable of more than a 157, and I think that will be evident in my class ranking.

OP, please spare us the sob story. You are not the only person here who has had it rough and has had to make a successful life out of nothing, and you are certainly not going to be the last. While I applaud your grit and guts, grit and guts alone NOT make you successful in law school. If it were all that simply nobody would care which school they went to because they could just get big law jobs off of willpower alone. I saved up the money myself to pay for a LSAT course (which was less than 2K by the way) and jumped from a 157 to a 167. While that is not as high as I would have liked, it was good enough to get me into some really good schools with $, and my GPA is shit. With your GPA, a similar jump would land you in a T20 for sure. But you seem unwilling to even try (you have already admitted to not trying before), and you think that that kind of effort is going to get you a job after law school?

Be smart about this. Going 100K into debt at a TTT is a fatal mistake. But if that is what you want to do, fine, we cant stop you. Just be prepared for the VERY REAL chance that things are not going to work out as you planned, and be prepared to face the consequences when that happens. Even those of us who have had rough childhoods and have come from no money understand that in order to get ahead you have to know how to play the game and play the numbers. You, sir, do not. As a fellow business major, I know you know a thing or two and good investments and bad investments. This would be a BAD investment. In order to be successful you have to set yourself up for success by putting yourself in the best possible situations. This is not a good situation at all.

Besides, why go into debt to pay for law school when you can get the school to pay for you? Wouldn't you rather emerge debt free instead of having to borrow so much money for school?

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FuManChusco
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Re: Tuition - How much is too much?

Postby FuManChusco » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:54 pm

ITT OP is too poor to get a decent LSAT score, but completely willing to go into 6 figure debt for a TTToilet. But wait, that debt won't be a problem when he magically finishes top 10%. I mean his LSAT was taken cold, so his imaginary improvement after loads of pretend studying is a much better indicator of his future 1L grades. Ugh...




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