Cardozo vs Brooklyn vs Rutgers-Newark vs Hofstra(with 20K)? Forum

[lawfreak]

So far it looks like the basic consensus is a toss up between Cardozo and Rutgers. Cardozo seems to have a bit more of a chance at getting biglaw, but the question remains whether that small percentage is worth the extra cash at Cardozo tuition.

I should also note that I don't have to factor in living expenses at this point.

Dude, the difference between biglaw is like top 7% vs top 5%. Either way it's almost nil. It really shouldn't factor much if any into your choice.

So you're saying, that I should without a doubt, go to Rutgers given my options?

[FiveSermon]

So far it looks like the basic consensus is a toss up between Cardozo and Rutgers. Cardozo seems to have a bit more of a chance at getting biglaw, but the question remains whether that small percentage is worth the extra cash at Cardozo tuition.

I should also note that I don't have to factor in living expenses at this point.

Dude, the difference between biglaw is like top 7% vs top 5%. Either way it's almost nil. It really shouldn't factor much if any into your choice.

So you're saying, that I should without a doubt, go to Rutgers given my options?

Money and the area you want to work in. Only two real cogent considerations.

[lawfreak]

This question is somewhat like choose your poison...but if I had to choose I'd go with Rutgers.

By poison, do you mean that the average person attending one of these places can reasonably assume to be unemployed or hold a horrible boutique firm position? If that is what you mean then I beg to differ. I personally know numerous people from both Cardozo and Brooklyn that have biglaw jobs. Additionally, according to NLJ250, cardozo is ranked at #30 of the most desirable law schools to attend in terms of job prospects at biglaw...and Yale is at #18 buddy.

Using your logic, I would tell anyone outside of T14 to not bother wasting their time and money in law school. That would be an awefully large number of intelligent/thought out people don't you think?

[FiveSermon]

This question is somewhat like choose your poison...but if I had to choose I'd go with Rutgers.

By poison, do you mean that the average person attending one of these places can reasonably assume to be unemployed or hold a horrible boutique firm position? If that is what you mean then I beg to differ. I personally know numerous people from both Cardozo and Brooklyn that have biglaw jobs. Additionally, according to NLJ250, cardozo is ranked at #30 of the most desirable law schools to attend in terms of job prospects at biglaw...and Yale is at #18 buddy.

Using your logic, I would tell anyone outside of T14 to not bother wasting their time and money in law school. That would be an awefully large number of intelligent/thought out people don't you think?

Yale only ranks that low because most of them self select out of biglaw buddy. Also spending 150k on law school looking for biglaw is a waste unless you do go to a very high ranked school.

Also if you are so intelligent then why don't you retake, get a 170+, and provided you don't have a sub 3.0 gpa have a good chance at UVA ED or Northwestern with 2 years work experience?

The "smart" and "intelligent" person would probably do this instead of spending 150k on a school that isn't even ranked in the top 5 for a crowded and oversaturated market.

[lawfreak]

"

Yale only ranks that low because most of them self select out of biglaw buddy. Also spending 150k on law school looking for biglaw is a waste unless you do go to a very high ranked school.

Also if you are so intelligent then why don't you retake, get a 170+, and provided you don't have a sub 3.0 gpa have a good chance at UVA ED or Northwestern with 2 years work experience?

The "smart" and "intelligent" person would probably do this instead of spending 150k on a school that isn't even ranked in the top 5 for a crowded and oversaturated market.

"

A) You assumed correctly about my gpa which is a 3.95 and a 4.0 in math major.

B) If I were to go to Rutgers, that would not be close to 150k, instead it would be more like 50-70k.

C) I am not retaking because I cannot, and I am a sucky standerdized test taker so there is virtually nothing I can do in that department.

D) When I said biglaw, it doesn't necessarily have to be a major firm, provided that I am making somewhere between 85-160k first year out.

E) Regarding the saturated market, you are only taking into account present numbers, neglecting to consider the future economy which is in an upward trend at the moment, and will hopefully only get better with time.

F) May I ask where you are/were for law school and how "intelligent" you feel you're own decision to go to law school was?

[Grizz]

Hey dude, you realize if you want biglaw salaries (there aren't a lot of people that pay 85k-100kish; bimodal salary distribution), the firms that tend to pay those salaries recruit at the beginning of 2L, aka 1.5 yrs from now for you. The legal market saturation is NOT going to get noticeably better by then; in fact, it was very saturated before the crash. Furthermore, these types of firms don't normally take laterals except from comparable institutions (other biglaw firms, bigfed, etc.).

Cardozo sent about 20% to biglaw firms back when the economy is good, and let me assure you, it's MUCH worse now.

[FiveSermon]

A) You assumed correctly about my gpa which is a 3.95 and a 4.0 in math major.
Ok? I never asked this. I guess it's an attempt to boost your ego.

B) If I were to go to Rutgers, that would not be close to 150k, instead it would be more like 50-70k.
Fair point.

C) I am not retaking because I cannot, and I am a sucky standerdized test taker so there is virtually nothing I can do in that department.
I would spend a year of non stop studying if I were you. I think you are pretty dumb if you don't retake since with a 160+ you can easily grab UVA ED. And a 158-->160 is a matter of a few questions. Even if you suck at the LSAT it's easily achievable.

D) When I said biglaw, it doesn't necessarily have to be a major firm, provided that I am making somewhere between 85-160k first year out.
I hope you realize law salaries are bimodal. You miss out on biglaw which pays around 125k+, then you are most likely stuck in a salary range of 50-65k/y with very little upward movement.

E) Regarding the saturated market, you are only taking into account present numbers, neglecting to consider the future economy which is in an upward trend at the moment, and will hopefully only get better with time.
Future economy? You will be looking for jobs within the first 2 years of law schools. If you don't have a job by end of your 3rd year you should be extremely worried. Most people lock up their jobs within the first 2 years. You don't have as much time to wait for the economy to improve as you think.

Also the economy won't improve that much in 2-3 years. At best biglaw jobs will pick up a few %, nothing major.


F) May I ask where you are/were for law school and how "intelligent" you feel you're own decision to go to law school was?

I'm a 0L. Applying this cycle. I don't feel "intelligent" at all, and am doubting whether I should go to law schools within the Cornell/Texas/GW range.

[lawfreak]

Hey dude, you realize if you want biglaw salaries (there aren't a lot of people that pay 85k-100kish; bimodal salary distribution), the firms that tend to pay those salaries recruit at the beginning of 2L, aka 1.5 yrs from now for you. The legal market saturation is NOT going to get noticeably better by then; in fact, it was very saturated before the crash. Furthermore, these types of firms don't normally take laterals except from comparable institutions (other biglaw firms, bigfed, etc.).

Cardozo sent about 20% to biglaw firms back when the economy is good, and let me assure you, it's MUCH worse now.

Do you consider 85k to be in the biglaw family? Also, I know someone who went from government to biglaw.

[lawfreak]

A)

You assumed correctly about my gpa which is a 3.95 and a 4.0 in math major.
Ok? I never asked this. I guess it's an attempt to boost your ego.

Um, you did say "provided that you do not have a sub 3.0 gpa", which to me sounds very much like an assumption. How much of an ego boost do you think I'm looking for when I said like 2 lines later that I suck at standerdized testing?

[Grizz]

Hey dude, you realize if you want biglaw salaries (there aren't a lot of people that pay 85k-100kish; bimodal salary distribution), the firms that tend to pay those salaries recruit at the beginning of 2L, aka 1.5 yrs from now for you. The legal market saturation is NOT going to get noticeably better by then; in fact, it was very saturated before the crash. Furthermore, these types of firms don't normally take laterals except from comparable institutions (other biglaw firms, bigfed, etc.).

Cardozo sent about 20% to biglaw firms back when the economy is good, and let me assure you, it's MUCH worse now.

Do you consider 85k to be in the biglaw family? Also, I know someone who went from government to biglaw.

85k is not in any family. There aren't many jobs that even pay that. Do a TLS search for bimodal salary distribution.

You can go from govt. to biglaw. Bigfed (DOJ, SEC, etc.) fairly easily, ADA much much much harder.

[lawfreak]

You can go from govt. to biglaw. Bigfed (DOJ, SEC, etc.) fairly easily, ADA much much much harder.

How hard is it to land a govt. job that you can transfer to biglaw from?

[Grizz]

You can go from govt. to biglaw. Bigfed (DOJ, SEC, etc.) fairly easily, ADA much much much harder.

How hard is it to land a govt. job that you can transfer to biglaw from?

For prestigious federal positions, clerkships, etc., as hard as getting biglaw, if not harder.

[lawfreak]

For prestigious federal positions, clerkships, etc., as hard as getting biglaw, if not harder

So you're pretty much telling me that I'm screwed and that my life is hopeless, because I have no better alternatives to law.
Thanks

[Grizz]

So you're pretty much telling me that I'm screwed and that my life is hopeless, because I have no better alternatives to law.
Thanks

Then retake the LSAT.

[lawfreak]

Then retake the LSAT.

[/quote]

You are very ignorant. I stated numerous times throughout this thread that I'm not interested in such responses and that that is not an option for me because I already maxed out (I pretty much said the maxed out part in a previous post lol). Dude, are you so confident about your own biglaw job? Ok, I've had enough of this depressing forum for now. chow!

[rman1201]

Then retake the LSAT.

You are very ignorant. I stated numerous times throughout this thread that I'm not interested in such responses and that that is not an option for me because I already maxed out (I pretty much said the maxed out part in a previous post lol). Dude, are you so confident about your own biglaw job? Ok, I've had enough of this depressing forum for now. chow ciao

ftfy.

lol @ calling rad law ignorant.

[Grizz]

Then retake the LSAT.

You are very ignorant. I stated numerous times throughout this thread that I'm not interested in such responses and that that is not an option for me because I already maxed out (I pretty much said the maxed out part in a previous post lol). Dude, are you so confident about your own biglaw job? Ok, I've had enough of this depressing forum for now. chow ciao

ftfy.

lol @ calling rad law ignorant.

To be fair bro, I'm pretty ignorant, but not about this.

[FeelTheHeat]

Then retake the LSAT.

You are very ignorant. I stated numerous times throughout this thread that I'm not interested in such responses and that that is not an option for me because I already maxed out (I pretty much said the maxed out part in a previous post lol). Dude, are you so confident about your own biglaw job? Ok, I've had enough of this depressing forum for now. chow!

Funny that Rad gets called ignorant while he is the one putting forth relevant information.

[lawfreak]

Funny that Rad gets called ignorant while he is the one putting forth relevant information.

I wasn't calling him ignorant for laying out relevant info (thanks for that at least). In fact, you're ignorant so far as you decided to ignore what I was aiming that comment at!

[FeelTheHeat]

Funny that Rad gets called ignorant while he is the one putting forth relevant information.

I wasn't calling him ignorant for laying out relevent info (thanks for that at least). In fact, you're ignorant so far as you decided to ignore what I was aiming that comment at!

Or just didn't give a shit and wanted to jump in because your 'tar annoys me. Carry on.

[lawfreak]

tar? lol

[OGR3]

Funny that Rad gets called ignorant while he is the one putting forth relevant information.

I wasn't calling him ignorant for laying out relevant info (thanks for that at least). In fact, you're ignorant so far as you decided to ignore what I was aiming that comment at!

That's ignorant. You're ignorant.

[MrAnon]

Why do you think you have no better alternatives than law? Just learn some other industry and get involved in it. Frankly, whatever happens cannot be much worse than enrolling in one of these schools. Even if you did absolutely nothing for 3 years you would at least save the cost of tuition and not be shouldering loans.

That said, if you still feel like you must direct your life to one of these schools, go to the cheapest one, because there is no meaningful difference between any of them. They are degree factories where a couple of the top students will do well and the rest will see their dreams die after 1 or 2 semesters. The school will sure do well on the back of all that tuition.

[JDeterminedF]

You won't like this at all, but the credited response is retake and reapply. All are terrible options at those prices. If you absolutely must chose from that list of schools, you go to the cheapest one. You aren't gonna see a meaningful enough boost in employment prospects to justify attending one at sticker vs. another with 20k.

Well I'm likely going to Rutgers, so take this for what its worth, but I voted Rutgers and here's why:

1. You can live in NJ and get instate tuition from year 1. (it says 22k for instate residents on the website, not sure if that is up to date though)
2. Brooklyn and Cardozo are crazy expensive at sticker. Not worth any minor employment benefits.
3. 20k at Hofstra makes it about even with Rutgers. Rutgers is a far better choice.

This was the best advice given to you IMO. Also, COL is generally cheaper in jersey.

[gbpackerbacker]

Retake and reapply. And you're welcome.