Michigan 45k, Boalt sticker, Illinois 120k,

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which school?

Michigan with 45k
51
57%
Cal with potentially nothing
8
9%
Cal if they match Michigan's scholly
22
24%
Illinois with full tuition
9
10%
 
Total votes: 90

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Tanicius
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Michigan 45k, Boalt sticker, Illinois 120k,

Postby Tanicius » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:03 pm

I wouldn't have really considered it before this week, but I just got into Berkeley, and in another potential game changer, so did my best friend at college, who is super set on Berkeley. We work really well together in legal-related extracurriculars, so it would be quite an opportunity to go to law school together. I've noted it's "potentially" sticker at Cal because they have this cool scholarship-matching program, but it's uncertain that they'll play ball.

Up until last week, Michigan was my first choice for its student body, the modest scholarship, Dean Z., and most importantly its Gothic architecture, but I have been agonizing continually over how much of an idiot I would be to turn down a full tuition scholly at Illinois. Regarding the poll above, basically I'd like to know if y'all think it's crazy to consider Berkeley at sticker right now. Both their out-of-state tuition (for my 1L) and in-state (for my 2L and 3L) are skyrocketing, and I have no connections to the West Coast. I'm predicting about 210-220k in loan debt if I go to Berkeley, compared to about 120k debt from Michigan, and maybe 30k debt if I went to Illinois on the full-tuition scholarship.

I'd like to do public interest work - anything in the courtroom, better yet if it's defense and double better yet if it's federal, but I feel like it's still foolish to gamble on getting that kind of job in what is a far worse legal market for the public sector than it is for the already bruised private sector. If I get the grades and a biglaw job falls into my lap, I would consider taking it just because its work experience seems to be pretty valuable for lateraling into something else eventually, and quite frankly it would probably be stupid not to take money in this economic environment when it's offered. My ideal opportunity would be a federal level clerkship, but I have no allusions as to the clerkship-obtaining differences between Michigan and Boalt. As for where I actually end up working, I could seriously care less as long as it's urban or suburban. Let me know if you'd like any other info.

dissonance1848
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Re: Michigan 45k, Boalt sticker, Illinois 120k,

Postby dissonance1848 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:11 pm

First of all, where do you want to practice? Also, check out the LRAP for Berkeley and Michigan since you want to do public interest (at least initially). Then weigh it again. Sounds like its between Berkeley and Michigan (UIUC just dones't have the pull the other two have, and its main market Chicago has lots of competition).

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Tanicius
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Re: Michigan 45k, Boalt sticker, Illinois 120k,

Postby Tanicius » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:17 pm

Well, I really don't care where I work. I live in a world of snow right now, and, although I hate winter, provided I like the job I could live here forever. I am aware of the LRAP's at both of these schools, but they're on the condition that you can find a PI job. Hiring freezes used to be the bad news - now in this next year any state that didn't see another 25% of its public defense budget disappear will be ridiculously lucky. I honestly don't know how long these PI jobs are going to stay out there for newly minted graduates. I fee like they're practically an endangered specie at this point.

sarahh
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Re: Michigan 45k, Boalt sticker, Illinois 120k,

Postby sarahh » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:22 pm

If you don't get the matching scholarship, I would say Michigan. They are basically peer schools and Michigan is cheaper. Not only do you have the $45k scholarship, but the cost of living is lower in Ann Arbor than Berkeley. If you are not dead set on California, then I don't think it is worth it to take on almost twice as much debt at Berkeley.

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Veyron
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Re: Michigan 45k, Boalt sticker, Illinois 120k,

Postby Veyron » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:29 pm

Well, if you got into these schools you must be a smart girl. See if you can figure this out:

Rue ooo taunt 2 practicar en Ralifornia?

Deep within the riddle lies your answer. . .

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Tanicius
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Re: Michigan 45k, Boalt sticker, Illinois 120k,

Postby Tanicius » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:33 pm

Veyron wrote:Well, if you got into these schools you must be a smart girl. See if you can figure this out:

Rue ooo taunt 2 practicar en Ralifornia?

Deep within the riddle lies your answer. . .



lol I will admit it's kind of flattering you thought I was girl. Probably cause of the whole "bestie" story at the beginning of my first.

adt231
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Re: Michigan 45k, Boalt sticker, Illinois 120k,

Postby adt231 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:58 pm

Let me start by saying that I am 0L, so my thoughts are probably not worth much.

But FWIW, I am in a nearly identical position as you with very similar interests. I am leaning towards UIUC simply because of the debt and your indifference to where you end up. Yes, UIUC will not be as competitive as Berk or Mich with regard to clerkships, PI or biglaw, but it still can get you there if you do well enough. And if you roll the dice by taking on that debt at Berk and Mich and DON'T land a job, PI or w/e, (which is a very real possibility) then you are royally screwed. (and BTW, Michigan with 45k still leaves you with 160k - not 120k and berkeley will leave you with 220+ or 180+ where Illinois will be more like 60ish AND the LRAP at Mich and Berk will make you pay more than the 60k back than you would, without LRAP, at UIUC for over TEN years IF you get land a PI job AND keep it for 10 years)

If you don't land anything after UIUC, what happens? You need to find a new career and pay back loans that really just paid for your living expenses for 3 years... not a great option but not so bad given the shitty economy. That worst option is not as bad as not finding a job and but then being an indentured servant to your loan company. Remember, the larger your debt gets the exponentially harder it is to pay it off... 220k accumulates 15k in interest a year (on 7% apr)

But, ITE it still comes down to: how much more $$ is that BETTER (not guaranteed) chance at a job worth to you? The TLS consensus (if there is one or at least as close to one as we get) is that you should pay for that chance (usually but not always -- and in your case, the answer seems to be take that risk).

For me, I have not made up my mind yet on how much that larger chance is worth to me but good luck with your decision! These are all great options!! Are these your final choices or are you waiting to hear back from more schools about either admission or scholly offers? PM if you'd like to talk more!

chasgoose
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Re: Michigan 45k, Boalt sticker, Illinois 120k,

Postby chasgoose » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:16 pm

I said Michigan mostly because they are peer schools with Berkeley. Also, even if Berkeley does play ball and matches Michigan, its still going to be more expensive because their tuition is way higher than Michigan's. That said, the difference will probably be about 5-10k a year. Not huge if you think it's worth it to go to school with your friend, but still enough to make it a consideration.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Michigan 45k, Boalt sticker, Illinois 120k,

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:19 pm

Probably between Michigan & Berkeley. Not sure that Illinois with $120,000 is worth passing up your other two options. The good news is that among the three there is not a bad choice to be made.

tamlyric
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Re: Michigan 45k, Boalt sticker, Illinois 120k,

Postby tamlyric » Sat Feb 19, 2011 2:42 pm

Assuming Boalt doesn't match, I think Michigan is the choice. Even if Boalt matches, though, I still might say Michigan. As great as it would be to go to the same law school as your BFF, one of the things that is great about law school is the chance to make many new and amazing friends. Illinois is obviously the safest choice, but it's also the least inspiring. Think about how you'll feel about your choice 5, 10, 20 years down the road. As scary as the debt load is, I think Michigan's LRAP is generous enough to lessen the burden (I don't know about Boalt's), especially if you end up doing public defense (or some similar kind of) work.

Have you visited the schools? I think visiting the schools during prospective student weekends is probably credited here.

Best of luck! :D

showNprove
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Re: Michigan 45k, Boalt sticker, Illinois 120k,

Postby showNprove » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:03 pm

You don't want to go to law school with a friend. One of you will end up feeling pretty shitty about yourself if the other does much better. Take the better deal at the ever so slightly better school. Go to Michigan and keep in touch, talk about your different experiences. You can fight over which is the 2nd best public law school behind Virginia.

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Veyron
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Re: Michigan 45k, Boalt sticker, Illinois 120k,

Postby Veyron » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:06 pm

showNprove wrote:You don't want to go to law school with a friend. One of you will end up feeling pretty shitty about yourself if the other does much better. Take the better deal at the ever so slightly better school. Go to Michigan and keep in touch, talk about your different experiences. You can fight over which is the 2nd best public law school behind Virginia.


Penn

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ndirish2010
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Re: Michigan 45k, Boalt sticker, Illinois 120k,

Postby ndirish2010 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:17 pm

Veyron wrote:
showNprove wrote:You don't want to go to law school with a friend. One of you will end up feeling pretty shitty about yourself if the other does much better. Take the better deal at the ever so slightly better school. Go to Michigan and keep in touch, talk about your different experiences. You can fight over which is the 2nd best public law school behind Virginia.


Penn


Penn's public now?

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pixytree
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Re: Michigan 45k, Boalt sticker, Illinois 120k,

Postby pixytree » Tue Feb 22, 2011 5:37 pm

showNprove wrote:You don't want to go to law school with a friend. One of you will end up feeling pretty shitty about yourself if the other does much better. Take the better deal at the ever so slightly better school. Go to Michigan and keep in touch, talk about your different experiences. You can fight over which is the 2nd best public law school behind Virginia.


Always love the Wahoo shoutouts.

I agree. I'm in the same position with a good friend of mine. Except I'm deciding between Mich, Boalt and UVA. We've both been doing legal work separately and would love to work together in law school (and afterward). But at the end of the day you have to look at what's practical for you.




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