Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

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FiveSermon
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby FiveSermon » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:54 am

Arbiter213 wrote:
glitched wrote:loll most, if not all, 0Ls I talk to say take the higher ranked, higher placing school at sticker.

all the practicing attorney's i talk to say take the money.

most people out of undergrad for a few years say to take the money.

most people in the legal employment thread say to take the money.

i think i might take the money.


I'm seriously considering it too after reading this thread.

Definitely gonna send Wash U an email trying to squeeze more money.


Retake?

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MTal
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby MTal » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:06 am

Didn't I settle this discussion several pages ago?

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glitched
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby glitched » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:09 am

hahaha which page? this thread is tl. i read most of it but skimmed a few posts. i would like to hear this debate settled.

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powerlawyer06
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby powerlawyer06 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:35 am

I know this has been posted before but it is relevant to what we are all about to do...

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/01/characte ... his-debts/

It scares the crap out of me.

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alexb
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby alexb » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:43 am

On a positive note (for people in debt), the US is probably going to have some pretty serious inflation issues soon, so our debt will be worth less . . . lol, but seriously it will.

Edit: PLEASE don't bank on this occurring, when I say probably, I mean maybe, I cannot predict the future.
Last edited by alexb on Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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glitched
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby glitched » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:44 am

alexb wrote:On a positive note (for people in debt), the US is probably going to have some pretty serious inflation issues soon, so our debt will be worth less . . . lol, but seriously it will.


but.. won't our salaries be worth less too? lol sorry i know almost nothing about economics. i just bought "Basic Economics" by some guy named Sowell today actually.

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alexb
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby alexb » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:49 am

glitched wrote:
alexb wrote:On a positive note (for people in debt), the US is probably going to have some pretty serious inflation issues soon, so our debt will be worth less . . . lol, but seriously it will.


but.. won't our salaries be worth less too? lol sorry i know almost nothing about economics. i just bought "Basic Economics" by some guy named Sowell today actually.


Haha, yeah . . . cross your fingers and hope our salaries will increase to keep up with inflation :P

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powerlawyer06
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby powerlawyer06 » Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:56 am

alexb wrote:
glitched wrote:
alexb wrote:On a positive note (for people in debt), the US is probably going to have some pretty serious inflation issues soon, so our debt will be worth less . . . lol, but seriously it will.


but.. won't our salaries be worth less too? lol sorry i know almost nothing about economics. i just bought "Basic Economics" by some guy named Sowell today actually.


Haha, yeah . . . cross your fingers and hope our salaries will increase to keep up with inflation :P


Yeah I think protracted inflation would be great after I have already borrowed and paid for law school. That was what the poor farmers wanted in the Populist party movement at the end of the 19th century. I think William Jennings Bryan was onto something. I think I am turning Populist.

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alexb
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby alexb » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:00 am

alexb wrote:On a positive note (for people in debt), the US is probably going to have some pretty serious inflation issues soon, so our debt will be worth less . . . lol, but seriously it will.

Edit: PLEASE don't bank on this occurring, when I say probably, I mean maybe, I cannot predict the future.



Yeah, quoting myself, to make sure everyone gets my edit!

(I know most people here won't use this sort of speculation to justify taking on a lot of debt, but someone might lol)

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romothesavior
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:51 am

glitched wrote:loll most, if not all, 0Ls I talk to say take the higher ranked, higher placing school at sticker.

all the practicing attorney's i talk to say take the money.

most people out of undergrad for a few years say to take the money.

most people in the legal employment thread say to take the money.

i think i might take the money.

Looking at it like this ignores the complexities and nuances of picking a school.

Sticker at NYU vs. 100k debt at Indiana? Take the higher ranked school. Sticker at Fordham vs. full ride at Brooklyn? Maybe you take the money (I would). Sometimes you should take the cheaper school, and sometimes you should take the better school. And sometimes you don't pick either, and instead you go to a school in between that matches your goals and financial constraints, which is what I did.

You can't just look at it as a battle between "Go to the highest ranked school you get into" or "Take the money no matter what." Sometimes, spending a few extra grand (or even tens of thousands of dollars) is worth it for drastically better job prospects. Other times, the small gains you achieve by taking the better school will not outweigh the added costs. And of course, other factors like cost of living, geographic preferences, "fit," career goals, etc. come into play as well.

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glitched
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby glitched » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:00 am

romothesavior wrote:
glitched wrote:loll most, if not all, 0Ls I talk to say take the higher ranked, higher placing school at sticker.

all the practicing attorney's i talk to say take the money.

most people out of undergrad for a few years say to take the money.

most people in the legal employment thread say to take the money.

i think i might take the money.

Looking at it like this ignores the complexities and nuances of picking a school.

Sticker at NYU vs. 100k debt at Indiana? Take the higher ranked school. Sticker at Fordham vs. full ride at Brooklyn? Maybe you take the money (I would). Sometimes you should take the cheaper school, and sometimes you should take the better school. And sometimes you don't pick either, and instead you go to a school in between that matches your goals and financial constraints, which is what I did.

You can't just look at it as a battle between "Go to the highest ranked school you get into" or "Take the money no matter what." Sometimes, spending a few extra grand (or even tens of thousands of dollars) is worth it for drastically better job prospects. Other times, the small gains you achieve by taking the better school will not outweigh the added costs. And of course, other factors like cost of living, geographic preferences, "fit," career goals, etc. come into play as well.


yeah.... and who said i wasn't talking about my own situation?

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lisjjen
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby lisjjen » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:02 am

romothesavior wrote:
glitched wrote:loll most, if not all, 0Ls I talk to say take the higher ranked, higher placing school at sticker.

all the practicing attorney's i talk to say take the money.

most people out of undergrad for a few years say to take the money.

most people in the legal employment thread say to take the money.

i think i might take the money.

Looking at it like this ignores the complexities and nuances of picking a school.

Sticker at NYU vs. 100k debt at Indiana? Take the higher ranked school. Sticker at Fordham vs. full ride at Brooklyn? Maybe you take the money (I would). Sometimes you should take the cheaper school, and sometimes you should take the better school. And sometimes you don't pick either, and instead you go to a school in between that matches your goals and financial constraints, which is what I did.

You can't just look at it as a battle between "Go to the highest ranked school you get into" or "Take the money no matter what." Sometimes, spending a few extra grand (or even tens of thousands of dollars) is worth it for drastically better job prospects. Other times, the small gains you achieve by taking the better school will not outweigh the added costs. And of course, other factors like cost of living, geographic preferences, "fit," career goals, etc. come into play as well.


Brooklyn might not be the best example. Based on their tough scholarship requirements, that might turn into three years at Fordaham @ sticker vs two years at Brooklyn @ sticker.

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romothesavior
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby romothesavior » Thu Mar 10, 2011 2:02 am

glitched wrote:yeah.... and who said i wasn't talking about my own situation?

I don't know your situation. I was just speaking in generalities.

pereira6
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby pereira6 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:45 am

Talked to a few people privately about this already, but I found this thread and wanted to ask TLS in public.

IBR.

There's a pretty strong feeling that it will still be in existence by the time I/we graduate in 2014. Or, at the least, will grandfather those who are already in IBR to stay in the program when they cancel it.

Let's say I/we have 160k+ of debt, and get a 60k small firm private firm job.

What are the chances we don't get IBR under the current system? You're only eligible if your loans are all from the government, correct?

If you get IBR, you can still live an average life, right?

If I take out that much money in loans, I just don't want the chance that I'll have to put off a family life after I graduate because I can't get a mortgage, etc.

TheStrand
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby TheStrand » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:09 pm

pereira6 wrote:Talked to a few people privately about this already, but I found this thread and wanted to ask TLS in public.

IBR.

There's a pretty strong feeling that it will still be in existence by the time I/we graduate in 2014. Or, at the least, will grandfather those who are already in IBR to stay in the program when they cancel it.

Let's say I/we have 160k+ of debt, and get a 60k small firm private firm job.

What are the chances we don't get IBR under the current system? You're only eligible if your loans are all from the government, correct?

If you get IBR, you can still live an average life, right?

If I take out that much money in loans, I just don't want the chance that I'll have to put off a family life after I graduate because I can't get a mortgage, etc.


Yes, you can live an average life with IBR. Yes they have to be government loans. Not sure what you mean what are the chances "we" don't get IBR under the current system? You qualify or you don't, calculator for payments here:

http://www.ibrinfo.org/calculator.php


160k with a 60k salary is $550 a month. After taxes in New York at least a salary of 60k is about 1700 a check paid biweekly. It's not really difficult to qualify for IBR though. As long as your monthly federal student loan payments are 15% or more of your discretionary income, you qualify. *edit* you also can't be in default or have a consolidated loan that includes a ParentPlus loan.

pereira6
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby pereira6 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:37 pm

TheStrand wrote:
Yes, you can live an average life with IBR. Yes they have to be government loans. Not sure what you mean what are the chances "we" don't get IBR under the current system? You qualify or you don't, calculator for payments here:

http://www.ibrinfo.org/calculator.php


160k with a 60k salary is $550 a month. After taxes in New York at least a salary of 60k is about 1700 a check paid biweekly. It's not really difficult to qualify for IBR though. As long as your monthly federal student loan payments are 15% or more of your discretionary income, you qualify. *edit* you also can't be in default or have a consolidated loan that includes a ParentPlus loan.


Used "we" to indicate the participants in this thread, who all surely will be using some sort of debt repayment assistance unless they hit the biglaw jackpot :)

But yeah, the ease of qualification for IBR is what I'm concerned about. 60k job, 6 figure debt, no IBR...that's trouble.

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Attorney
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Attorney » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:11 pm

alexb wrote:On a positive note (for people in debt), the US is probably going to have some pretty serious inflation issues soon, so our debt will be worth less . . . lol, but seriously it will.

Edit: PLEASE don't bank on this occurring, when I say probably, I mean maybe, I cannot predict the future.

I'm glad you put that edit in there, hehe. But I agree with that as a somewhat likely scenario.

TheStrand
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby TheStrand » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:04 pm

pereira6 wrote:But yeah, the ease of qualification for IBR is what I'm concerned about. 60k job, 6 figure debt, no IBR...that's trouble.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people who want IBR qualify for it. There's no real arbitrariness with it since it was passed as part of health care reform, and not like the wanton policy of a particular law school. So I mean, unless the whole Affordable Care Act gets repealed in its entirety, I'm pretty sure it'll be fine and you can count on this. Whatever school you decide to attend will probably have an LRAP that can help you with the 160k too. Have any undergrad debt? Try asking for need based aid if you do and you're really worried.

p.s. your cycle is bizarre for your numbers, are you a felon or something?

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northwood
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby northwood » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:18 pm

so if i call J.G. wentworht 8 77 cash now they could help me? ( i just saw that commercial, and its suck in my head)

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Stanford4Me » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:19 pm

northwood wrote:so if i call J.G. wentworht 8 77 cash now they could help me? ( i just saw that commercial, and its suck in my head)

"I got a structured settlement but I need cash now!"

pereira6
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby pereira6 » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:31 pm

TheStrand wrote:
pereira6 wrote:But yeah, the ease of qualification for IBR is what I'm concerned about. 60k job, 6 figure debt, no IBR...that's trouble.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people who want IBR qualify for it. There's no real arbitrariness with it since it was passed as part of health care reform, and not like the wanton policy of a particular law school. So I mean, unless the whole Affordable Care Act gets repealed in its entirety, I'm pretty sure it'll be fine and you can count on this. Whatever school you decide to attend will probably have an LRAP that can help you with the 160k too. Have any undergrad debt? Try asking for need based aid if you do and you're really worried.


From my understanding, LRAP only qualifies for PI positions, no? I heard Michigan has a pretty flexible program, though.

I am also fortunate to have 0 undergrad debt. SUNY system + scholly really helped. I already received a hefty need-based from UPenn, and I'm not sure they're going to be in the business of giving me more. But I did plan on seeing if I could squeeze another dollar out of them :wink:

TheStrand wrote:
p.s. your cycle is bizarre for your numbers, are you a felon or something?


I wish. That way it would explain my relatively disappointing cycle. I have some great offers of course, but my numbers should have performed much better in the T14. It's just so disappointing to get the WL notice over and over again from schools I loved and was anticipating scholarships from. If I received any money from Duke or Michigan...I don't know what I would do.

I'm mainly disappointed by my lack of options.

The ONLY thing that could explain my cycle is the fact that I am 20 years old, and will be 20 entering law school. I put together a solid app package though--one that I think would dispel any questions of maturity. I was also able to acquire a master's degree, which I thought could show I'm academically mature. I'm going to chalk it up to the age thing though, and take the best. Penn is looking mighty fine right about now, and so is Vanderbilt.

As someone shooting for NYC Biglaw, I'm just thinking about the question "so if I take 160k of debt from Penn and end up with a 60k private firm job, how screwed am I?"

Thanks for your advice!

TheStrand
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby TheStrand » Thu Mar 24, 2011 3:29 pm

pereira6 wrote:From my understanding, LRAP only qualifies for PI positions, no? I heard Michigan has a pretty flexible program, though.

Depends school to school. Michigan's cover's private jobs but I'm not sure about the others sorry.

That is still pretty surprising even given the age thing. It's certainly young and unusual, but not so crazy that I would think it would overshadow your good stats. Hell didn't UCLA have a JD grad who was 18?
pereira6 wrote:As someone shooting for NYC Biglaw, I'm just thinking about the question "so if I take 160k of debt from Penn and end up with a 60k private firm job, how screwed am I?

Not that screwed. IBR will likely be there. I would actually be more worried about finding that 60k firm job first. Good luck!

pereira6
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby pereira6 » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:04 pm

TheStrand wrote: I would actually be more worried about finding that 60k firm job first. Good luck!


Why's that?

I always figure I can come back to my hometown area and land a job worse comes to worse. As long as I'm diligent about it, and not just show up and be like "oh hey gimme a job", I think I could be okay.

What is your view on such a situation?

Anonymous Loser
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Anonymous Loser » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:38 pm

TheStrand wrote:I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people who want IBR qualify for it. There's no real arbitrariness with it since it was passed as part of health care reform, and not like the wanton policy of a particular law school. So I mean, unless the whole Affordable Care Act gets repealed in its entirety, I'm pretty sure it'll be fine and you can count on this.


To clarify, the IBR program was developed as part of the College Cost Reduction and Access Act, voted in under the previous administration. The student loan reform measures incorporated in the Affordable Care Act relate to eliminating the FFELP lending program in favor of direct lending, and have no effect on the IBR program.

richie808
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby richie808 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:50 am

Looking at going in for 105k+ debt to go to Vandy. Choosing that over (basically) full ride at ASU (home state school) or full-ride IUB. Vastly superior prospects graduating from Vandy appear to make it worth it, especially if I were to graduate at median. (which I'm not planning on but who does?) IBR makes it seem very doable, even in worst-case employment scenarios.




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