Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

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Georgetown51
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Georgetown51 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:53 pm

I just want to make sure people know what they are getting into.

With 200k in debt at the time of graduation, carried at 7% interest, you have to pay $1,500 a month or $18,000 a year for about 23 YEARS to pay it off. I am not saying that people should not take on this debt, but instead be fully aware of how this will effect their future life plans (having a family, buying a house, etc.). The problem with taking on such a large amount of debt is that it is very difficult to get in front of the compounding interest and pay off principle.

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niederbomb
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby niederbomb » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:04 pm

Georgetown51 wrote:I just want to make sure people know what they are getting into.

With 200k in debt at the time of graduation, carried at 7% interest, you have to pay $1,500 a month or $18,000 a year for about 23 YEARS to pay it off. I am not saying that people should not take on this debt, but instead be fully aware of how this will effect their future life plans (having a family, buying a house, etc.). The problem with taking on such a large amount of debt is that it is very difficult to get in front of the compounding interest and pay off principle.


However, living like a student for a few years after graduation would end the debt pretty quickly. It's not like you have a life as an associate anyway. The only thing besides food and rent you really need to spend money on is suits and dry cleaning to look professional.

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Tanicius
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Tanicius » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:07 pm

niederbomb wrote:
Georgetown51 wrote:I just want to make sure people know what they are getting into.

With 200k in debt at the time of graduation, carried at 7% interest, you have to pay $1,500 a month or $18,000 a year for about 23 YEARS to pay it off. I am not saying that people should not take on this debt, but instead be fully aware of how this will effect their future life plans (having a family, buying a house, etc.). The problem with taking on such a large amount of debt is that it is very difficult to get in front of the compounding interest and pay off principle.


However, living like a student for a few years after graduation would end the debt pretty quickly. It's not like you have a life as an associate anyway. The only thing besides food and rent you really need to spend money on is suits and dry cleaning to look professional.


And car payments. And gasoline. And insurance. And beer money. Too tired to keep listing stuff off - the point is that it adds up. I keep needing to be reminded that even if I find a job, if it isn't biglaw and it isn't covered by the LRAP, that interest is going to become a big problem for even loans at half a school's sticker price.

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romothesavior
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby romothesavior » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:11 pm

niederbomb wrote:
Georgetown51 wrote:I just want to make sure people know what they are getting into.

With 200k in debt at the time of graduation, carried at 7% interest, you have to pay $1,500 a month or $18,000 a year for about 23 YEARS to pay it off. I am not saying that people should not take on this debt, but instead be fully aware of how this will effect their future life plans (having a family, buying a house, etc.). The problem with taking on such a large amount of debt is that it is very difficult to get in front of the compounding interest and pay off principle.


However, living like a student for a few years after graduation would end the debt pretty quickly. It's not like you have a life as an associate anyway. The only thing besides food and rent you really need to spend money on is suits and dry cleaning to look professional.

What world are you living in? That's definitely not all that people have to pay off. And even living that cheaply, good luck paying off 6 figures of debt in "a few years."

And you really think being a lawyer is worth living in a horrible apartment, driving a clunker car, never going out to eat, never going to concerts/sporting events, etc. just so you can service your debt? And what about raising a family and buying a house? I mean, it's not all about the money, but it would be nice to live a normal lifestyle that isn't crippled by debt.

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beachbum
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby beachbum » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:15 pm

I am the king of money-saving tips. In college, I actually created a website devoted exclusively to saving money/making extra money on the side (legitimately). And the website was hooked up with Adsense, which was bringing in even more money! It was fantastic.

Anyway, there's tons of little things you can do to reduce your financial burden. For instance, buy gift cards at reduced prices. Sites like cardpool, giftcardrescue, cardwoo, and monstergiftcard sell gift cards for ~10-15% off face value. If you know you're going to be doing some spending at certain places, this can save you a substantial amount of money when used frequently.

Also, never buy anything online without first checking for coupon codes. A simple google search does the trick, or just check sites like retailmenot.

Edit: Unless I missed the boat on the money-saving discussion.

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niederbomb
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby niederbomb » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:22 pm

Tanicius wrote:
niederbomb wrote:
Georgetown51 wrote:I just want to make sure people know what they are getting into.

With 200k in debt at the time of graduation, carried at 7% interest, you have to pay $1,500 a month or $18,000 a year for about 23 YEARS to pay it off. I am not saying that people should not take on this debt, but instead be fully aware of how this will effect their future life plans (having a family, buying a house, etc.). The problem with taking on such a large amount of debt is that it is very difficult to get in front of the compounding interest and pay off principle.


However, living like a student for a few years after graduation would end the debt pretty quickly. It's not like you have a life as an associate anyway. The only thing besides food and rent you really need to spend money on is suits and dry cleaning to look professional.


And car payments. And gasoline. And insurance. And beer money. Too tired to keep listing stuff off - the point is that it adds up. I keep needing to be reminded that even if I find a job, if it isn't biglaw and it isn't covered by the LRAP, that interest is going to become a big problem for even loans at half a school's sticker price.


Car payments? No, definitely working in an East Coast school with public transportation. I hate driving. Insurance? No, I'm under 25, never get sick. Beer? Not a necessity either. I spent $75 my first semester in undergraduate school (I got a full ride). I hardly grew up in the land of suburban plenty, so living tight is easy.

I don't plan to get married till I'm in my 30's anyway, if ever. By then, the debt will be serviceable or gone.

It's all about the future. If you attended an Ivy League for undergraduate school or have a rich family or are a talented engineer, I'd say making this type of sacrifice is a bad deal. But if you start from virtually nothing, it's a gamble that has the potential to pay off in the long run. It's not just about the JD. It's about the lifetime network you will have attending a T14, especially if it's in the Ivy League and you plan to stay on the East Coast.

TheStrand
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby TheStrand » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:36 pm

To the guy who asked about Americorps members surviving on $20k a year (too lazy to go back and figure out who it was): they're encouraged to be on food stamps. Certain programs will also (rarely) allow you to get second jobs.

Fun fact: educational loans and scholarships do not count as income in the consideration for food stamp benefits...

sparty99
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby sparty99 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:54 pm

niederbomb wrote:
Tanicius wrote:
niederbomb wrote:
Georgetown51 wrote:I just want to make sure people know what they are getting into.

With 200k in debt at the time of graduation, carried at 7% interest, you have to pay $1,500 a month or $18,000 a year for about 23 YEARS to pay it off. I am not saying that people should not take on this debt, but instead be fully aware of how this will effect their future life plans (having a family, buying a house, etc.). The problem with taking on such a large amount of debt is that it is very difficult to get in front of the compounding interest and pay off principle.


However, living like a student for a few years after graduation would end the debt pretty quickly. It's not like you have a life as an associate anyway. The only thing besides food and rent you really need to spend money on is suits and dry cleaning to look professional.


And car payments. And gasoline. And insurance. And beer money. Too tired to keep listing stuff off - the point is that it adds up. I keep needing to be reminded that even if I find a job, if it isn't biglaw and it isn't covered by the LRAP, that interest is going to become a big problem for even loans at half a school's sticker price.


Car payments? No, definitely working in an East Coast school with public transportation. I hate driving. Insurance? No, I'm under 25, never get sick. Beer? Not a necessity either. I spent $75 my first semester in undergraduate school (I got a full ride). I hardly grew up in the land of suburban plenty, so living tight is easy.

I don't plan to get married till I'm in my 30's anyway, if ever. By then, the debt will be serviceable or gone.

It's all about the future. If you attended an Ivy League for undergraduate school or have a rich family or are a talented engineer, I'd say making this type of sacrifice is a bad deal. But if you start from virtually nothing, it's a gamble that has the potential to pay off in the long run. It's not just about the JD. It's about the lifetime network you will have attending a T14, especially if it's in the Ivy League and you plan to stay on the East Coast.


This guy is naive. "I never get sick." Neither did Tom Green until he got testicular cancer. Never get sick? Neither did the boy who had his appendix rupture. Going without health insurance. Yeah. Real smart.

Working on the east coast? $1,500 rent for a STUDIO. Then add on your friends weddings, vacation, eating, dry cleaning, etc. I'm not saying you can't live like a pauper, but come on, life happens and you need to plan financially for that.

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romothesavior
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby romothesavior » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:38 pm

niederbomb wrote:If you like to have a social life, go out for an occasional dinner or drinks, go on dates, plan for a family, have a decent roof over your head, or enjoy your youth at all, attended an Ivy League for undergraduate school or have a rich family or are a talented engineer, I'd say making this type of sacrifice is a bad deal.

FTFY

I'm about as average and middle class as it gets, and I don't plan on living in a crappy house with roommates or eating Ramen noodles throughout my 20s.

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Arbiter213
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Arbiter213 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 2:40 pm

romothesavior wrote:
niederbomb wrote:If you like to have a social life, go out for an occasional dinner or drinks, go on dates, plan for a family, have a decent roof over your head, or enjoy your youth at all, attended an Ivy League for undergraduate school or have a rich family or are a talented engineer, I'd say making this type of sacrifice is a bad deal.

FTFY

I'm about as average and middle class as it gets, and I don't plan on living in a crappy house with roommates or eating Ramen noodles throughout my 20s.


TBF Romo, most of the people I met at your ASD told me to go to Cornell instead of WUSTL anyway :/

T_T

This whole thing stresses me out more than anything else I've ever experienced.

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Malcolm8X
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Malcolm8X » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:41 pm

beachbum wrote:I am the king of money-saving tips. In college, I actually created a website devoted exclusively to saving money/making extra money on the side (legitimately). And the website was hooked up with Adsense, which was bringing in even more money! It was fantastic.

Anyway, there's tons of little things you can do to reduce your financial burden. For instance, buy gift cards at reduced prices. Sites like cardpool, giftcardrescue, cardwoo, and monstergiftcard sell gift cards for ~10-15% off face value. If you know you're going to be doing some spending at certain places, this can save you a substantial amount of money when used frequently.

Also, never buy anything online without first checking for coupon codes. A simple google search does the trick, or just check sites like retailmenot.

Edit: Unless I missed the boat on the money-saving discussion.


Seems like that ship has sailed and we degenerated into another UNsupporting thread, again. But thanks for the advice. That's freaking smart though. Dag gummit, if only I had learned how to build web pages.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Helmholtz » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:59 pm

spacepenguin wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
Malcolm8X wrote:
Arbiter213 wrote:Hoping Cornell offers need based aid matching UCLA's, I would be taking on, assuming a worst case $20k/year COL loans, $150,000 in debt to attend, vs. $75,000 in debt to attend WUSTL (assuming same COL). Subtract COL loans and its $15k vs. $90k. That seems like a bad idea, but on the other hand, I have almost no interest in living in the Midwest, and want to return to NY. That'd be 6 figures of debt. I MIGHT come into some money through inheritance in the next few years that would significantly diminish my debt burden, but it's still nerve racking. I would argue that my expected values are similar between the two schools, but the best and worst cases for Cornell are better and worse.

Ahhh, I'm glad I'll be meeting with the office of financial aid when I visit Cornell.


Cornell is kind of tough to pass up given your goals to return to NYC and especially how that recent employment statistics turned out for the NLJ250.


Considering the fact that Cornell's NLJ250 placement next year should be floating under the 40% mark, I'm not sure how much stock you should put into the recent statistics.


How is that fact? Isn't the under 40% mark merely based on anecdotal evidence?


Anecdotal evidence as in official documents given to Cornell Law students from their Office of Career Services, yes. There is other anecdotal evidence from students beyond that to back it up. so......

Georgetown51
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Georgetown51 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:04 pm

niederbomb wrote:
Georgetown51 wrote:I just want to make sure people know what they are getting into.

With 200k in debt at the time of graduation, carried at 7% interest, you have to pay $1,500 a month or $18,000 a year for about 23 YEARS to pay it off. I am not saying that people should not take on this debt, but instead be fully aware of how this will effect their future life plans (having a family, buying a house, etc.). The problem with taking on such a large amount of debt is that it is very difficult to get in front of the compounding interest and pay off principle.


However, living like a student for a few years after graduation would end the debt pretty quickly. It's not like you have a life as an associate anyway. The only thing besides food and rent you really need to spend money on is suits and dry cleaning to look professional.


I guess I just want people who take out 200k to realize that they are most likely signing up for a 10 year austerity program. Some people are fine with that. On the other hand if you take out 200k and miss big law, then you are signing up for a life long austerity program and/or financial ruin. I say this because if you miss big law, then you won't get any prestigious non-profit, and will most likely be grinding in some terrible non-profit for LRAP which will lead you to no where. Hey, I'm not trying to scare people, these are just the simple facts of taking out that much debt. It is a gamble if you do so without a solid repayment plan, and that fact should not be glossed over.

InvictusFortis
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby InvictusFortis » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:20 pm

Georgetown51 wrote:I guess I just want people who take out 200k to realize that they are most likely signing up for a 10 year austerity program. Some people are fine with that. On the other hand if you take out 200k and miss big law, then you are signing up for a life long austerity program and/or financial ruin. I say this because if you miss big law, then you won't get any prestigious non-profit, and will most likely be grinding in some terrible non-profit for LRAP which will lead you to no where. Hey, I'm not trying to scare people, these are just the simple facts of taking out that much debt. It is a gamble if you do so without a solid repayment plan, and that fact should not be glossed over.


It doesn't necessarily have to be as black and white as you put it. You can work non-profit/government your 1L summer. You can also have externships/volunteer work with government agencies/non-profits. Still have a SA gig your 2L with a large firm and if you get no-offered, just spin it as not liking the environment/type of work (but that you wanted to experience as much as possible to know you are setting yourself on the right career path).

"Won't get any prestigious non-profit" seems too definitive. And even what starts out as "less-presitgious" doesn't mean it will remain that way for the rest of your career.

FiveSermon
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:28 pm

Wasn't that Cornell just for 1L summer associates? Couldn't that 40% go up another 10% once you factor in how they do in 2L and 3L OCI?

Also to the people talking about money saving habits...Come on. Unless you land a biglaw job you aren't going to be paying off 150k in debt by eating ramen noodles and not going out for beer.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Helmholtz » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:30 pm

FiveSermon wrote:Wasn't that Cornell just for 1L summer associates? Couldn't that 40% go up another 10% once you factor in how they do in 2L and 3L OCI?

Also to the people talking about money saving habits...Come on. Unless you land a biglaw job you aren't going to be paying off 150k in debt by eating ramen noodles and not going out for beer.


I believe it was for 2L summer associates, and what is 3L OCI?

fwiw, the numbers that Cornell OCS gave the previous year for the class of 2010 matched up pretty well to what we saw in the NLJ250 data

FiveSermon
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:38 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:Wasn't that Cornell just for 1L summer associates? Couldn't that 40% go up another 10% once you factor in how they do in 2L and 3L OCI?

Also to the people talking about money saving habits...Come on. Unless you land a biglaw job you aren't going to be paying off 150k in debt by eating ramen noodles and not going out for beer.


I believe it was for 2L summer associates, and what is 3L OCI?

fwiw, the numbers that Cornell OCS gave the previous year for the class of 2010 matched up pretty well to what we saw in the NLJ250 data


You are right. It was 2L summer associates. And yeah they do match up pretty well (they predicted around 60% for class of 2010 when it came out at 58%).

Also 3L OCI is for people who interview into jobs at last minute? A friend did that for a v15 firm coming out of Fordham :o

Also does anyone remember what the numbers were like for leaked info surrounding Penn Mich and NU for their class of 2011? I remember people saying that some of these schools leaked info.

Edit: Also the abovethelaw post regarding Cornell says that a tipster said at least 8 students who got biglaw jobs didn't wish to be contacted. IF this is true then Cornell's biglaw placement would be somewhere more along 45%.
Last edited by FiveSermon on Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Helmholtz » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:39 pm

FiveSermon wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:Wasn't that Cornell just for 1L summer associates? Couldn't that 40% go up another 10% once you factor in how they do in 2L and 3L OCI?

Also to the people talking about money saving habits...Come on. Unless you land a biglaw job you aren't going to be paying off 150k in debt by eating ramen noodles and not going out for beer.


I believe it was for 2L summer associates, and what is 3L OCI?

fwiw, the numbers that Cornell OCS gave the previous year for the class of 2010 matched up pretty well to what we saw in the NLJ250 data


You are right. It was 2L summer associates. And yeah they do match up pretty well (they predicted around 60% for class of 2010 when it came out at 58%).

Also 3L OCI is for people who interview into jobs at last minute? A friend did that for a v15 firm coming out of Fordham :o


Was that recently? My impression has been that getting something from a 3L OCI just doesn't happen anymore, or if it does, it's extremely rare.

FiveSermon
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby FiveSermon » Fri Mar 04, 2011 4:44 pm

Helmholtz wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:
Helmholtz wrote:
FiveSermon wrote:Wasn't that Cornell just for 1L summer associates? Couldn't that 40% go up another 10% once you factor in how they do in 2L and 3L OCI?

Also to the people talking about money saving habits...Come on. Unless you land a biglaw job you aren't going to be paying off 150k in debt by eating ramen noodles and not going out for beer.


I believe it was for 2L summer associates, and what is 3L OCI?

fwiw, the numbers that Cornell OCS gave the previous year for the class of 2010 matched up pretty well to what we saw in the NLJ250 data


You are right. It was 2L summer associates. And yeah they do match up pretty well (they predicted around 60% for class of 2010 when it came out at 58%).

Also 3L OCI is for people who interview into jobs at last minute? A friend did that for a v15 firm coming out of Fordham :o


Was that recently? My impression has been that getting something from a 3L OCI just doesn't happen anymore, or if it does, it's extremely rare.


He graduated in 2009 I believe. So it isn't truly ITE and he was in the top 10% of his class but he did get it entirely through 3L OCI. He did some UN gig during 1L and 2L and didn't network but he said he was able to get an interview during 3L OCI and got an offer at a v15. He did tell me that his case was exceptional though and that he thought he was a good interviewer...

czelede
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby czelede » Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:53 pm

Joining this club, although I have a feeling from my cursory glance of the first few pages that most likely the derailment of this thread has not yet abated.

Will probably be paying sticker for either B or P (probably P). Backup plans are IP and marrying rich.

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Malcolm8X
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Malcolm8X » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:09 pm

czelede wrote:Joining this club, although I have a feeling from my cursory glance of the first few pages that most likely the derailment of this thread has not yet abated.

Will probably be paying sticker for either B or P (probably P). Backup plans are IP and marrying rich.


Sometimes I wish I were a woman just so I can say that.

TheStrand
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby TheStrand » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:31 pm

Malcolm8X wrote:Sometimes I wish I were a woman just so I can say that.

Men can say it too. There's a lot of lonely lawyer ladies out there.

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Arbiter213
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Arbiter213 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:38 pm

TheStrand wrote:
Malcolm8X wrote:Sometimes I wish I were a woman just so I can say that.

Men can say it too. There's a lot of lonely lawyerdoctor ladies out there.

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AreJay711
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby AreJay711 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 6:47 pm

Arbiter213 wrote:
TheStrand wrote:
Malcolm8X wrote:Sometimes I wish I were a woman just so I can say that.

Men can say it too. There's a lot of lonely lawyerdoctor ladies out there.

Don't forget male dr's ex-wives either. There are plenty.

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Malcolm8X
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Malcolm8X » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:16 pm

Arbiter213 wrote:
TheStrand wrote:
Malcolm8X wrote:Sometimes I wish I were a woman just so I can say that.

Men can say it too. There's a lot of lonely lawyerdoctor ladies out there.


When we say it we gotta MEAN it. Our options are down to the elderly, haggardly, rejects. If a woman looks half decent, they can still pull a prince charming. Plus, I don't think I can handle the social castration of not being the bread winner.




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