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romothesavior wrote:

reddituser wrote:Looking at ~175k at John Marshall. With my scholarship and hopefully my family will match, i'll have that number down to 125. Scared out of my mind, but excited to continue my edumacation.

125k in debt for a 4th tier school in one of the most oversaturated markets in the country? Sounds like a great plan.

Thanks! I'm looking forward to it.

reddituser wrote:Already did, this is close to the best I can do, and something I really care about, so I'm going for it. This is supposed to be a "support" thread

If you want people to support you and tell you that you're doing the right thing, you're in the wrong place. I don't support people jumping off buildings, ingesting poison, or running into oncoming traffic on the interstate. 6 figures of debt at JMLS is the financial equivalent of these, so I don't support it either.

JMLS is one of the absolute worst law schools in the country. Your odds of getting employed from there in a decent-paying job that requires a J.D. are almost non-existent. A friend of mine goes to JMLS and he says employment prospects there are atrocious. The one JMLS grad I know (an older guy who has had a successful career and currently holds a sweet job) was embarrassed to admit he went there when I talked to him, and I don't blame him.

If JMLS is really the best you can do, then you should consider a different career path rather than head into what could easily wind up being financial ruin. You're wasting your money and your family's money, and you'll be in significant debt until you're 50.

romothesavior wrote:

reddituser wrote:Already did, this is close to the best I can do, and something I really care about, so I'm going for it. This is supposed to be a "support" thread

If you want people to support you and tell you that you're doing the right thing, you're in the wrong place. I don't support people jumping off buildings, ingesting poison, or running into oncoming traffic on the interstate. 6 figures of debt at JMLS is the financial equivalent of these, so I don't support it either.

JMLS is one of the absolute worst law schools in the country. Your odds of getting employed from there in a decent-paying job that requires a J.D. are almost non-existent. A friend of mine goes to JMLS and he says employment prospects there are atrocious. The one JMLS grad I know (an older guy who has had a successful career and currently holds a sweet job) was embarrassed to admit he went there when I talked to him, and I don't blame him.

If JMLS is really the best you can do, then you should consider a different career path rather than head into what could easily wind up being financial ruin. You're wasting your money and your family's money, and you'll be in significant debt until you're 50.

Yes I'm aware TLS is full of downers. I met a 3L today who already has a $76k job lined up. Sounds fine to me.

reddituser wrote:

romothesavior wrote:

reddituser wrote:Already did, this is close to the best I can do, and something I really care about, so I'm going for it. This is supposed to be a "support" thread

If you want people to support you and tell you that you're doing the right thing, you're in the wrong place. I don't support people jumping off buildings, ingesting poison, or running into oncoming traffic on the interstate. 6 figures of debt at JMLS is the financial equivalent of these, so I don't support it either.

JMLS is one of the absolute worst law schools in the country. Your odds of getting employed from there in a decent-paying job that requires a J.D. are almost non-existent. A friend of mine goes to JMLS and he says employment prospects there are atrocious. The one JMLS grad I know (an older guy who has had a successful career and currently holds a sweet job) was embarrassed to admit he went there when I talked to him, and I don't blame him.

If JMLS is really the best you can do, then you should consider a different career path rather than head into what could easily wind up being financial ruin. You're wasting your money and your family's money, and you'll be in significant debt until you're 50.

Yes I'm aware TLS is full of downers. I met a 3L today who already has a $76k job lined up. Sounds fine to me.

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fatduck wrote:

reddituser wrote:

romothesavior wrote:

reddituser wrote:Already did, this is close to the best I can do, and something I really care about, so I'm going for it. This is supposed to be a "support" thread

If you want people to support you and tell you that you're doing the right thing, you're in the wrong place. I don't support people jumping off buildings, ingesting poison, or running into oncoming traffic on the interstate. 6 figures of debt at JMLS is the financial equivalent of these, so I don't support it either.

JMLS is one of the absolute worst law schools in the country. Your odds of getting employed from there in a decent-paying job that requires a J.D. are almost non-existent. A friend of mine goes to JMLS and he says employment prospects there are atrocious. The one JMLS grad I know (an older guy who has had a successful career and currently holds a sweet job) was embarrassed to admit he went there when I talked to him, and I don't blame him.

If JMLS is really the best you can do, then you should consider a different career path rather than head into what could easily wind up being financial ruin. You're wasting your money and your family's money, and you'll be in significant debt until you're 50.

Yes I'm aware TLS is full of downers. I met a 3L today who already has a $76k job lined up. Sounds fine to me.

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Problem?
Not a troll though, actually

reddituser wrote:Yes I'm aware TLS is full of downers. I met a 3L today who already has a $76k job lined up. Sounds fine to me.

And for every one of him/her, I could find you 10 without a job. It is not an exaggeration to say that the majority of JMLS students will never, ever hold a legal job that requires a J.D.

But it sounds like your mind is made up. Maybe you'll be one of the extremely rare case and find a good job out of that festering hellhole of a school. Good luck.

reddituser wrote:

fatduck wrote:

reddituser wrote:

romothesavior wrote:If you want people to support you and tell you that you're doing the right thing, you're in the wrong place. I don't support people jumping off buildings, ingesting poison, or running into oncoming traffic on the interstate. 6 figures of debt at JMLS is the financial equivalent of these, so I don't support it either.

JMLS is one of the absolute worst law schools in the country. Your odds of getting employed from there in a decent-paying job that requires a J.D. are almost non-existent. A friend of mine goes to JMLS and he says employment prospects there are atrocious. The one JMLS grad I know (an older guy who has had a successful career and currently holds a sweet job) was embarrassed to admit he went there when I talked to him, and I don't blame him.

If JMLS is really the best you can do, then you should consider a different career path rather than head into what could easily wind up being financial ruin. You're wasting your money and your family's money, and you'll be in significant debt until you're 50.

Yes I'm aware TLS is full of downers. I met a 3L today who already has a $76k job lined up. Sounds fine to me.

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Problem?
Not a troll though, actually

oh. well, thanks for clearing that up.












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jtemp320 wrote:geez this support thread isnt very supportive

+10000000000000

Something for you to read, readdituser...
http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/20 ... l-law.html

The article is just kinda meh (I'm not really a fan of the TTR articles), but the comments are incredibly telling. Here are a few from JMLS alumni:

I am sad to say I am a member of the 2006 JMLS class. I wish I had a time machine and go back and undo the decision because it has ruined my life. After graduation I dedicated 8 months of my life, 12 hours a day, to finding a job - researching jobs, sending resumes, attending networking events, and in the end I had maybe 4 real interviews, and no job. After 8 months I was broke and was reduced to working doc reviews, and have been stuck doing it ever since. Whenever you ask people on these doc review projects in Chicago what law school they went to, at least 50% of them say JMLS. Even those that were lucky enough to initially get jobs rights coming out of school, or start their own practices, are now working doc reviews because they've been let go or there is not enough work to make a living.

I agree. JMLS used to be a feeder school for gov't jobs. Now JMLS grads can't even get an interview. I've sent dozens of resumes to the city and state -- NADA. I owe $140,000 to the the Access Group syndicate and am out there begging for jobs that pay 40K. Thanks JMLS!!

So if I wasn't feeling bad enough already about my JMLS degree, I had to read this blog -- which is absolutely correct. I'd guess that maybe 10 percent of the class of '06 are actually employed as attorneys. Also, those lowly city jobs and AAGs (40 grand a year is NOT cush!) are being snapped up by first tiers.

I don't need to know about legal hiring, I know how hiring in general works. There are law firms that need help doing "crap work" throughout the entire year. These firms might advertise through your school, on the web, or through a temp agency...this could be with a mega firm or a small one. There are also law clerk positions. If you get this on your resume, then recruiters will see that "brand name" or whateva and select you for an interview.

There is also the "hidden market." You create this in-large-part through your own initiative. Contacting Partners at firms seeing if you can help out for free whether it's 5 hours a week or 15 hours a week. Many will say, "hell no," some will say, "hell yes." By doing all of this you're creating/strenthgening your credentials. Getting something to put on the resume IF/WHEN you do not succeed at the formalized summer internships....this is setting you up for the full-time job interviews or 2L summer positions...

I never said ANY of these things will get you a full-time job. I'm replying to the guy who said he's scared that he has nothing to bring to the table and didn't go to any ivy league undergrad. Again, the hiring manager mostly won't care about any of that once you are interviewing. They will care that you can do the work, that you're a fit, etc. I'm assuming the law student from the medicore undergrad HAS the grades to compete with the ivy league undergrad and interesting graduate degrees. Once you're in the interview room, you can almost throw everything out the window. It's about how you deliver, connect with the interviewer, etc. Yes, they might hire the person because they have financial securities experience for a summer position at XYZ, but this alone will never put them over the top.

Corporate America (especially on campus interviewing) is a game. It is very formalized. They ask the same interview questions, etc. Recruiters will select resumes without knowing anything about the position. They just see: 3.6, rank: 3 out of 300, Baker Bottts, Latham & Watkins, blah, blah, blah. You can spend four weeks working for Baker Botts (or whatever) and then you put that on your resume. Date: Winter 2010....Or what have you. Recruiters will see that you worked for a competitor or have legal experience (you can do this at a clinic too). Or you can get a law clerk job at Weltiman, Weinberg & Reis. Is this Baker Botts? NO. But will the Baker Botts recruiter see you did bankruptcy work for this firm? YES. Will they select you for an interview after seeing this, "yes, possibly." This is "playing to the game."

Everything I said about working for free is true and possible. I NEVER said it was EASY and sure as hell never said it'll get you a full-time job or an internship, but if you are concerned with not having the credentials, then it's a strategy you might want to try, especially if you want to land a 1L internship or if you failed at that, then trying to get the 2L or full-time job position.

You can laugh all you want and continue to bring up my LSAT score. I'm certain you never emailed a partner at a law firm (or municipality) and asked if they would consider you for freelance work or when their office is swamped. That's fine. My advice isn't for people who want to rely on the old-fashion standards, it's for people who are capable of thinking "outside the box" and want to play the game so they can win.

mottainai wrote:

jtemp320 wrote:geez this support thread isnt very supportive

+10000000000000

Well what are you looking for? You're not going to find many people on TLS supporting the decision to take out 6-figures of debt for a fourth-tier. Hell, I had a lot of people telling me I was crazy for going to WUSTL last year, and I won't even have 6-figures of debt from the school!

6-figures of debt is scary, no matter where you go. But it can be a rational decision if you go to a really good school. 6 figures of debt for a school with terrible job prospects? Not a good decision, and TLS is not the place to go if a person is looking for positive reinforcement for their terrible decision. There are too many actual law students (who actually know what the legal economy is like) on this site for that kind of positive reinforcement to happen in a thread like this. If people want to be told they are a special snowflake, they should turn to mommy or daddy for that.

reddituser wrote:

FiveSermon wrote:

reddituser wrote:Looking at ~175k at John Marshall. With my scholarship and hopefully my family will match, i'll have that number down to 125. Scared out of my mind, but excited to continue my edumacation.

Retake.

Already did, this is close to the best I can do, and something I really care about, so I'm going for it. This is supposed to be a "support" thread

Why can't you go part time and cash flow this? $175,000 for a tier 4?! Oh, no!

sparty99 wrote: Everything I said about working for free is true and possible. I NEVER said it was EASY

Me winning the lottery is also true and possible. It won't be easy but it is true and possible. Therefore it is a good idea to bank on it.

FiveSermon wrote:

sparty99 wrote: Everything I said about working for free is true and possible. I NEVER said it was EASY

Me winning the lottery is also true and possible. It won't be easy but it is true and possible. Therefore it is a good idea to bank on it.

My friend got into i-banking by doing what I just said. Hate all you want.

sparty99 wrote:

FiveSermon wrote:

sparty99 wrote: Everything I said about working for free is true and possible. I NEVER said it was EASY

Me winning the lottery is also true and possible. It won't be easy but it is true and possible. Therefore it is a good idea to bank on it.

My friend got into i-banking by doing what I just said. Hate all you want.

My friend also won the lotto.

sparty99 wrote:Why can't you go part time and cash flow this? $175,000 for a tier 4?! Oh, no!

Why? He can just work part-time at Kirkland and Ellis and "create" himself a job. Sounds like a good idea to me!

Although this is a support thread, I did figure most of the people in here would be attending at least something like a T30 or better. It is really hard to support someone who you think is about to jump off a building.

There should be a sub-thread for those of us planning on breaking the 200k barrier. 100k in debt, please, that's nothing!

I don't admit to knowing about Finance...

But, if I were a bank, I would not loan $200K to just anyone, especially someone going to a TTTT.

The question is: Why do the banks actually do this?

niederbomb wrote:I don't admit to knowing about Finance...

But, if I were a bank, I would not loan $200K to just anyone, especially someone going to a TTTT.

The question is: Why do the banks actually do this?

Because the Federal Government backs them, so if we default we screw the Government, not the Banks (unless it's a private loan). Plus there is no risk of bankruptcy, so the Government can pursue the debt forever.

niederbomb wrote:I don't admit to knowing about Finance...

But, if I were a bank, I would not loan $200K to just anyone, especially someone going to a TTTT.

The question is: Why do the banks actually do this?

https://www1.salliemae.com/after_gradua ... ruptcy.htm

ahduth wrote:

niederbomb wrote:I don't admit to knowing about Finance...

But, if I were a bank, I would not loan $200K to just anyone, especially someone going to a TTTT.

The question is: Why do the banks actually do this?

https://www1.salliemae.com/after_gradua ... ruptcy.htm

if I were a bank, and the government offered to guarantee the loans I made to you, I would loan you a trillion fucking dollars.

for comparison: the government's collection rate on student loans is ~85%. credit card companies strive for 10%.

reddituser wrote:

romothesavior wrote:

reddituser wrote:Looking at ~175k at John Marshall. With my scholarship and hopefully my family will match, i'll have that number down to 125. Scared out of my mind, but excited to continue my edumacation.

125k in debt for a 4th tier school in one of the most oversaturated markets in the country? Sounds like a great plan.

Thanks! I'm looking forward to it.

reddituser wrote:Yes I'm aware TLS is full of downers. I met a 3L today who already has a $76k job lined up. Sounds fine to me.

Okay... I do not know anything about JMLS except what has been said on this site, so I am not going to make any characterizations about your school. However, have you thought these numbers through at all? Let's say things work out peachy, and you take out $125k in loans, and get a $76k job at graduation. (Which both seem like reaches at this point, especially that job, since it is based on anecdotal evidence from one person.)

Your $125k in loans have ballooned to ~143.5k at graduation. (1% orig. fees on the Staffords, 4% on the grad plus, 6.8% interest accruing on the unsubsidized staffords while you're being edumacated, $7.9% on the grad plus.) Put that on a 10 year payment plan, and you're at $1695/month paying back your loans. Can you afford that on your $76k job? How about if you're slightly less lucky and earn $65k? What about $45k?

Wholigan wrote:

reddituser wrote:

romothesavior wrote:

reddituser wrote:Looking at ~175k at John Marshall. With my scholarship and hopefully my family will match, i'll have that number down to 125. Scared out of my mind, but excited to continue my edumacation.

125k in debt for a 4th tier school in one of the most oversaturated markets in the country? Sounds like a great plan.

Thanks! I'm looking forward to it.

reddituser wrote:Yes I'm aware TLS is full of downers. I met a 3L today who already has a $76k job lined up. Sounds fine to me.

Okay... I do not know anything about JMLS except what has been said on this site, so I am not going to make any characterizations about your school. However, have you thought these numbers through at all? Let's say things work out peachy, and you take out $125k in loans, and get a $76k job at graduation. (Which both seem like reaches at this point, especially that job, since it is based on anecdotal evidence from one person.)

Your $125k in loans have ballooned to ~143.5k at graduation. (1% orig. fees on the Staffords, 4% on the grad plus, 6.8% interest accruing on the unsubsidized staffords while you're being edumacated, $7.9% on the grad plus.) Put that on a 10 year payment plan, and you're at $1695/month paying back your loans. Can you afford that on your $76k job? How about if you're slightly less lucky and earn $65k? What about $45k?

Good questions, but you should give him credit for summer work and knock the total down to 135k @ graduation.

Ed: Also, making 75k/year would give one reason to elect a longer pay off period, b/c you're not phased out of claiming the tax deduction on the interest. So, assuming he has 135k deb @ graduation and chooses a 20 year repayment plan, his monthly payment is ~$1031

homestyle28 wrote:

Wholigan wrote: Okay... I do not know anything about JMLS except what has been said on this site, so I am not going to make any characterizations about your school. However, have you thought these numbers through at all? Let's say things work out peachy, and you take out $125k in loans, and get a $76k job at graduation. (Which both seem like reaches at this point, especially that job, since it is based on anecdotal evidence from one person.)

Your $125k in loans have ballooned to ~143.5k at graduation. (1% orig. fees on the Staffords, 4% on the grad plus, 6.8% interest accruing on the unsubsidized staffords while you're being edumacated, $7.9% on the grad plus.) Put that on a 10 year payment plan, and you're at $1695/month paying back your loans. Can you afford that on your $76k job? How about if you're slightly less lucky and earn $65k? What about $45k?

Good questions, but you should give him credit for summer work and knock the total down to 135k @ graduation.

Ed: Also, making 75k/year would give one reason to elect a longer pay off period, b/c you're not phased out of claiming the tax deduction on the interest. So, assuming he has 135k deb @ graduation and chooses a 20 year repayment plan, his monthly payment is ~$1031

I guess… being how he has gone ahead and assumed the best for everything, wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t factor in tuition increases. That should about cancel out any summer pay. So, let’s assume he is on the 20 year plan. $76k/year is about $4750/month in take home pay. Take off his loans, and he’s down to $3700/month. I guess he could scrape by in Chicago on that salary. How much does an apt cost in Chicago? Does he plan to have a family or do anything else expensive during the 20 years he will be paying off his loans? If so, hopefully he won’t want to have said family with a SO he meets at JMLS who took the 6 figure plunge with him.