Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

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lisjjen
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby lisjjen » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:16 pm

MTal wrote:
kwais wrote:
formerbiglawpartner wrote:If you are positive you want to practice in New York, then, yes, the median of the NYU or Columbia class would have an edge over, say, law review at Texas or UCLA. However, somebody has to be at the bottom half of the class at NYU and Columbia, and at that point, you are quite likely hosed. (Look at the NLJ250 Survey recently published unless facts get in the way of your delusions. Remember, that's the NLJ250 they are talking about, too--not the Vault top 10 talked about often on TLS!) Think about where you want to practice and live. If you are getting money from the top regional school there, you should go for it by all means. I'm afraid most of the posters here have been living off mommy and daddy all their lives and have absolutely no idea how much debt (non-dischargeable, remember) six figures is and how it will impact every life decision going forward.


I am 27 and have not received a dollar from "mommy and daddy" for almost a decade. I worked to pay tuition, rent and everything else. I may not know what 200k debt feels like, but I know what it is like to be near-unemployable with my lib. arts degree. I also know what its like to get excited by risk, an attribute that is common with most people who achieve what they want in life. Let me translate your post for you: "I'm a cowardly douche, I enter threads that have nothing to do with me and make assumptions about people I don't know, but golly it makes me feel a little better about my life decisions" GTFO


Yes, except there is 1 small problem. Law school doesn't turn losers into winners. If you are an unemployed liberal arts loser working shit jobs for minimum wage, no decent paying law firm will hire you. If you couldn't figure out how to make it in the real world, you don't have a snowball's chance in law which is far FAR more cutthroat and competitive than other industries.


It just hurts my heart to see a sour old woman like you use the flag first flown by the JFO in Warsaw as your avatar.

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kwais
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby kwais » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:17 pm

MTal wrote:
kwais wrote:
formerbiglawpartner wrote:If you are positive you want to practice in New York, then, yes, the median of the NYU or Columbia class would have an edge over, say, law review at Texas or UCLA. However, somebody has to be at the bottom half of the class at NYU and Columbia, and at that point, you are quite likely hosed. (Look at the NLJ250 Survey recently published unless facts get in the way of your delusions. Remember, that's the NLJ250 they are talking about, too--not the Vault top 10 talked about often on TLS!) Think about where you want to practice and live. If you are getting money from the top regional school there, you should go for it by all means. I'm afraid most of the posters here have been living off mommy and daddy all their lives and have absolutely no idea how much debt (non-dischargeable, remember) six figures is and how it will impact every life decision going forward.


I am 27 and have not received a dollar from "mommy and daddy" for almost a decade. I worked to pay tuition, rent and everything else. I may not know what 200k debt feels like, but I know what it is like to be near-unemployable with my lib. arts degree. I also know what its like to get excited by risk, an attribute that is common with most people who achieve what they want in life. Let me translate your post for you: "I'm a cowardly douche, I enter threads that have nothing to do with me and make assumptions about people I don't know, but golly it makes me feel a little better about my life decisions" GTFO


Yes, except there is 1 small problem. Law school doesn't turn losers into winners. If you are an unemployed liberal arts loser working shit jobs for minimum wage, no decent paying law firm will hire you. If you couldn't figure out how to make it in the real world, you don't have a snowball's chance in law which is far FAR more cutthroat and competitive than other industries.


I have two jobs, both of which are more interesting that anything you have ever done in your life. I want to be a lawyer and the dozen or so lawyers in my family all think I'm making a great decision. Can I practice law right now? no, and this is what I mean when I refer to my limited employment prospects. The things I want to accomplish involve a JD. btw, I would destroy you in an interview setting, but I guess we'll never find out because you quit. Man, if someone would only pay you to cry on TLS, then we would both be on our way to a better life.

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MTal
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby MTal » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:17 pm

TheOcho wrote:
MTal wrote:Yes, except there is 1 small problem. Law school doesn't turn losers into winners. If you are an unemployed liberal arts loser working shit jobs for minimum wage, no decent paying law firm will hire you. If you couldn't figure out how to make it in the real world, you don't have a snowball's chance in law which is far FAR more cutthroat and competitive than other industries.


So, you're telling me an unemployed liberal arts major who graduates #1 in his class from H/Y/S doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell in the legal field?


No, that's not what I'm saying - you deliberately distorted my post. I said "liberal arts loser working shit jobs for minimum wage". These types of people rarely if ever get in to Harvard. If they were smart enough to get into Harvard, they would be smart enough not be working these shit jobs.

eaa1537
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby eaa1537 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:17 pm

So I'm going to ignore all the negativity in this thread and chime in to keep the support going. I will also probably be paying sticker at Columbia, unless I get a JR2 in which case I will be paying sticker at Harvard. I don't have any undergraduate debt and maybe I'm not really debt averse because I have a safety net to fall onto, but I'm still confident that I'm making a good investment and that it will be worth it in the end. Hey- it will probably make me even more determined to do well and not be in the bottom of my class!

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kwais
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby kwais » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:19 pm

romothesavior wrote:
TheOcho wrote:
MTal wrote:Yes, except there is 1 small problem. Law school doesn't turn losers into winners. If you are an unemployed liberal arts loser working shit jobs for minimum wage, no decent paying law firm will hire you. If you couldn't figure out how to make it in the real world, you don't have a snowball's chance in law which is far FAR more cutthroat and competitive than other industries.


So, you're telling me an unemployed liberal arts major who graduates #1 in his class from H/Y/S doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell in the legal field?

Don't feed the troll. He is without any doubt the worst poster on TLS.


I agree, I have fed the troll and am embarrassed. I am done. Here's hoping for a revival of the best parts of this thread.

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MTal
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby MTal » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:24 pm

kwais wrote:
MTal wrote:
kwais wrote:
formerbiglawpartner wrote:If you are positive you want to practice in New York, then, yes, the median of the NYU or Columbia class would have an edge over, say, law review at Texas or UCLA. However, somebody has to be at the bottom half of the class at NYU and Columbia, and at that point, you are quite likely hosed. (Look at the NLJ250 Survey recently published unless facts get in the way of your delusions. Remember, that's the NLJ250 they are talking about, too--not the Vault top 10 talked about often on TLS!) Think about where you want to practice and live. If you are getting money from the top regional school there, you should go for it by all means. I'm afraid most of the posters here have been living off mommy and daddy all their lives and have absolutely no idea how much debt (non-dischargeable, remember) six figures is and how it will impact every life decision going forward.


I am 27 and have not received a dollar from "mommy and daddy" for almost a decade. I worked to pay tuition, rent and everything else. I may not know what 200k debt feels like, but I know what it is like to be near-unemployable with my lib. arts degree. I also know what its like to get excited by risk, an attribute that is common with most people who achieve what they want in life. Let me translate your post for you: "I'm a cowardly douche, I enter threads that have nothing to do with me and make assumptions about people I don't know, but golly it makes me feel a little better about my life decisions" GTFO


Yes, except there is 1 small problem. Law school doesn't turn losers into winners. If you are an unemployed liberal arts loser working shit jobs for minimum wage, no decent paying law firm will hire you. If you couldn't figure out how to make it in the real world, you don't have a snowball's chance in law which is far FAR more cutthroat and competitive than other industries.


I have two jobs, both of which are more interesting that anything you have ever done in your life. I want to be a lawyer and the dozen or so lawyers in my family all think I'm making a great decision. Can I practice law right now? no, and this is what I mean when I refer to my limited employment prospects. The things I want to accomplish involve a JD. btw, I would destroy you in an interview setting, but I guess we'll never find out because you quit. Man, if someone would only pay you to cry on TLS, then we would both be on our way to a better life.


Ok then, please tell us what incredible and interesting things your "jobs" involve, given that you've already admitted to possessing a (in your own words) "near-unemployable...lib-arts degree". As for interviews, what the hell are you talking about? I work in the financial services industry and will probably never go back to law, so unless you plan on applying to be a portfolio manager sometime in the near future, I doubt very much that we will be competing for the same job.

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MTal
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby MTal » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:24 pm

lisjjen wrote:It just hurts my heart to see a sour old woman like you use the flag first flown by the JFO in Warsaw as your avatar.


Am yisroel chai!

TheOcho
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby TheOcho » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:25 pm

MTal wrote:
TheOcho wrote:
MTal wrote:Yes, except there is 1 small problem. Law school doesn't turn losers into winners. If you are an unemployed liberal arts loser working shit jobs for minimum wage, no decent paying law firm will hire you. If you couldn't figure out how to make it in the real world, you don't have a snowball's chance in law which is far FAR more cutthroat and competitive than other industries.


So, you're telling me an unemployed liberal arts major who graduates #1 in his class from H/Y/S doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell in the legal field?


No, that's not what I'm saying - you deliberately distorted my post. I said "liberal arts loser working shit jobs for minimum wage". These types of people rarely if ever get in to Harvard. If they were smart enough to get into Harvard, they would be smart enough not be working these shit jobs.


Adding the adjective "loser" and specifying that he or she is making minimum wage doesn't make your argument any better.

Romo's right. Shouldn't feed the troll. I'm done.

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fatduck
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby fatduck » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:26 pm

MTal wrote:
lisjjen wrote:It just hurts my heart to see a sour old woman like you use the flag first flown by the JFO in Warsaw as your avatar.


Am yisroel chai!

Is that how you order a chai latte at Starbucks these days? I can't keep up with their lingo.

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kwais
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby kwais » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:26 pm

Ok then, please tell us what incredible and interesting things your "jobs" involve, given that you've already admitted to possessing a (in your own words) "near-unemployable...lib-arts degree". As for interviews, what the hell are you talking about? I work in the financial services industry and will probably never go back to law, so unless you plan on applying to be a portfolio manager sometime in the near future, I doubt very much that we will be competing for the same job.[/quote]

ok

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rman1201
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby rman1201 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:26 pm

Back in the main topic of the thread -

I fully expect to be blasted for this but...
I'm considering sticker at BU (or small scholly if I get it), either way it'll still be six-figures of debt. It's the best available option for my goals and what I want to do/where I want to be. It is terrifying to think about all that debt and the possibility of failing to find a job - but a part of me craves the risk and instability. Every now and then I contemplate going back onto the healthcare track similar to how I started out (Post-bac to med school or even nursing), but the relative stability and overall predictability of life doesn't appeal to me much. I don't really think I'm alone here in that mindset.

And if I fail and end up like MTal I acknowledge it's the price to play for having played the game, but let's just hope for the best.

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Sentry
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby Sentry » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:27 pm

fatduck wrote:
MTal wrote:
lisjjen wrote:It just hurts my heart to see a sour old woman like you use the flag first flown by the JFO in Warsaw as your avatar.


Am yisroel chai!

Is that how you order a chai latte at Starbucks these days? I can't keep up with their lingo.

Yisroel must be that new 56oz size that was all in the news a few weeks ago.

TheOcho
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby TheOcho » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:29 pm

Back to the topic at hand...

What kind of $ do you all think I would need at Georgetown to make it worth giving up ~90k+ at schools in the 18-24 range. I'm really don't think I could justify G-Town at sticker. Also, would your answer be different if I said Duke or Michigan?

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MTal
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby MTal » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:31 pm

rman1201 wrote:Back in the main topic of the thread -

I fully expect to be blasted for this but...
I'm considering sticker at BU (or small scholly if I get it), either way it'll still be six-figures of debt. It's the best available option for my goals and what I want to do/where I want to be. It is terrifying to think about all that debt and the possibility of failing to find a job - but a part of me craves the risk and instability. Every now and then I contemplate going back onto the healthcare track similar to how I started out (Post-bac to med school or even nursing), but the relative stability and overall predictability of life doesn't appeal to me much. I don't really think I'm alone here in that mindset.

And if I fail and end up like MTal I acknowledge it's the price to play for having played the game, but let's just hope for the best.


If you graduate BU and "end up like me" you need to get down on the ground and thank your lucky stars. Working a professional job with almost no debt to speak of with incredible possibilities for career advancement and working towards a professional designation (the CFA) is better than the vast VASTY majority of law graduates can even HOPE to achieve.

formerbiglawpartner
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby formerbiglawpartner » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:33 pm

To the Ocho: Where do you want to practice law/live? It makes all the difference in the world in your decision.

dakatz
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby dakatz » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:34 pm

I think the overarching motto should be "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst". Every person taking on huge debt most certainly needs to at least consider the possibility that things may not go as planned, and they could end up with a very high debt burden and poor job prospects. To those who go to T10 schools, sure it isn't the most likely scenario. But as long as it is possible, you should factor that into your equation and at least be ready if that unfortunate situation played itself out. To act like you have eliminated that possibility would be foolish. ITE no one is immune in that way. Again, its not something you would expect, but you would be remiss if you didn't at least have some contingency plan for what is theoretically possible (and much more so in the last few years than before).

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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby dakatz » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:35 pm

TheOcho wrote:Back to the topic at hand...

What kind of $ do you all think I would need at Georgetown to make it worth giving up ~90k+ at schools in the 18-24 range. I'm really don't think I could justify G-Town at sticker. Also, would your answer be different if I said Duke or Michigan?


Depends on which schools gave you 90K. But I would be very wary about any of those schools at sticker price. I can envision scenarios in which Columbia, NYU, Chicago, etc. could perhaps be good choices at sticker price, but I personally would be wary of paying sticker at anything lower.

TheOcho
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby TheOcho » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:36 pm

formerbiglawpartner wrote:To the Ocho: Where do you want to practice law/live? It makes all the difference in the world in your decision.



I'm flexible. I'm more concerned with being employed and not being entirely crushed with debt. I can be happy just about anywhere.

Edit: I should add that I have no undergrad debt.
Last edited by TheOcho on Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

xyzbca
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby xyzbca » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:36 pm

kwais wrote:For all of you doubting the wisdom of paying sticker at a T14. Your advice comes with a responsibility. You can NEVER, EVER say anything like the following: "Its unfair that that firm hired that median NYU kid over me. I know that I am super qualified and have better grades at my T25 or T50" You have made your bed and we are about to make ours. We run the risk of debt, you run the risk of reduced employment prospects. If you want to teach, do high-profile government work or land a V100 firm job, you very well might. But...if you don't, kindly come back on here and post picture of foot in mouth.


Sure, I'll live up to that responsibility. Do you promise to never bitch and complain if you end up $200k in debt with a low paying job?

There is something that isn't adding up about you. Perhaps you can explain?

Earlier in this thread you said:

kwais wrote:However, I also have a few very strong connections. As in partners who would throw me a paying SA bone if I do not get one on my own. I still have to make decent (medianish) grades, but by no means the top quartile like some need. Also, I figure, at Texas I'm still looking at ~100k in debt, forcing me to do biglaw anyway. I'd rather not live in Texas either. I will ask those schools for more money though, because a full ride would give me a ton of freedom.


You are precisely the person who should be taking the scholarship at the lower ranked school. If you really have these "strong connections" you should be minimizing your debt. Why pay $200k for a Ferrari if you can get it for $100k (using your figures)? The vast majority of rational people would put up with the indignity of living in Austin for 3 years if it netted them $100,000. That's essentially a year of after tax income for a first year associate. Something just isn't adding up about your story.

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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby rundoxierun » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:37 pm

Monitoring this thread for potential entry..

Current deciding between 25k undergrad debt plus another 30-40k debt at UMich(55-65k total) vs. same plus 125-130k debt at Harvard(150-155k total).

sparty99
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby sparty99 » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:41 pm

TheOcho wrote:Back to the topic at hand...

What kind of $ do you all think I would need at Georgetown to make it worth giving up ~90k+ at schools in the 18-24 range. I'm really don't think I could justify G-Town at sticker. Also, would your answer be different if I said Duke or Michigan?


1) I'd go to 18-24 range. I can see you doing really well at Wash U, Emory, BU, and Minnesota.

or

2) What if you went to Georgetown Part Time? You can then cash flow your tuitition.

xyzbca
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby xyzbca » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:41 pm

tkgrrett wrote:Monitoring this thread for potential entry..

Current deciding between 25k undergrad debt plus another 30-40k debt at UMich(55-65k total) vs. same plus 125-130k debt at Harvard(150-155k total).


Goals?

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fatduck
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby fatduck » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:42 pm

xyzbca wrote:You are precisely the person who should be taking the scholarship at the lower ranked school. If you really have these "strong connections" you should be minimizing your debt. Why pay $200k for a Ferrari if you can get it for $100k (using your figures)? The vast majority of rational people would put up with the indignity of living in Austin for 3 years if it netted them $100,000. That's essentially a year of after tax income for a first year associate. Something just isn't adding up about your story.

I don't know, I think it makes sense. I'm considering taking a bigger debt-risk for a chance at a higher ceiling in terms of career paths, because I have a fallback option that can support me even if I completely strike out with 150k debt. It just depends on your personal goals.

dakatz
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby dakatz » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:45 pm

If I had a pretty much guaranteed job lined up, I would have gone for the highest-ranked school that gave me a full or close to full scholarship.

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kwais
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Re: Support Thread for the 6-figure debt plunge

Postby kwais » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:46 pm

fatduck wrote:
xyzbca wrote:You are precisely the person who should be taking the scholarship at the lower ranked school. If you really have these "strong connections" you should be minimizing your debt. Why pay $200k for a Ferrari if you can get it for $100k (using your figures)? The vast majority of rational people would put up with the indignity of living in Austin for 3 years if it netted them $100,000. That's essentially a year of after tax income for a first year associate. Something just isn't adding up about your story.

I don't know, I think it makes sense. I'm considering taking a bigger debt-risk for a chance at a higher ceiling in terms of career paths, because I have a fallback option that can support me even if I completely strike out with 150k debt. It just depends on your personal goals.


exactly, I know that I am lucky to have fallbacks, but I hope not to have to use them because I want a shot at the kind of opportunities available to a portion of the T6. Again I think this separates two kinds of people. some say, I have an option so I'll take. Others say I have option and I'm still going to try to attain my dream job.




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