WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

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Which one?

Duke (sticker)
24
20%
Michigan (sticker)
60
49%
WUSTL + full scholly
39
32%
 
Total votes: 123

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quadsixm
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby quadsixm » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:58 pm

beachbum wrote:[
But for the OP's stated goals, WUSTL definitely isn't a better choice than Duke/Michigan.


Oh, of course not. You can certainly still get biglaw from WUSTL, but you will need to be in the top 25% to feel decent about it.
51% from Michigan, 27.5% from WUSTL, to be exact.

I guess the decision whether that additional 23% is worth $150,000 to OP.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby NU_Jet55 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:59 pm

beachbum wrote:But for the OP's stated goals, WUSTL definitely isn't a better choice than Duke/Michigan.


I feel ya bro. But, I've got to side with aberzombie on this one. Biglaw is never a sure thing. Wagering $150,000 on just a slightly better shot at it just doesn't make sense. Wasting that much cash could really fuck up your life. See: every lawschoolscamblog out there.

Aberzombie1892 wrote:For your goal, Michigan.

Logically, WashU.

.......

?????


WashU wins!

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beachbum
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby beachbum » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:03 am

I dunno, I think +~25% is more than a slightly better shot. Barring other factors, we're talking top of your class versus median to be competitive for BigLaw.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:04 am

NU_Jet55 wrote:
beachbum wrote:But for the OP's stated goals, WUSTL definitely isn't a better choice than Duke/Michigan.


I feel ya bro. But, I've got to side with aberzombie on this one. Biglaw is never a sure thing. Wagering $150,000 on just a slightly better shot at it just doesn't make sense. Wasting that much cash could really fuck up your life. See: every lawschoolscamblog out there.

You're playing fast and loose with the word "slightly" here, don't you think? Especially if we're talking primary market (NYC/Chicago/DC) placement.

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northwood
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby northwood » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:12 am

OP why dont u ask this question in th wustl, duke, and michigan threads to get a perspective from current students at those schools?

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quadsixm
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby quadsixm » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:15 am

FlightoftheEarls wrote:[
If we're sticking with this line of thought, here's my recommendation: OP, go to University of New Mexico School of Law. It dominates its market, the COA is going to be much lower, and the scenery is beautiful. This is the best advice you can possibly get.

:roll:


Like I said, the amount of risk that OP is comfortable with is a personal decision.

But to advise OP to not consider the off chance ( :P ) that he MIGHT not make biglaw... is a huge mistake.

Many high school basketball players have the "goal" of making the NBA. It would not be wise advice for them to blow off all other career options because the extra bball practice would give them a better chance of furthering that goal.

pereira6
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby pereira6 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:16 am

rad law wrote:Somewhere in this middle, hopefully with money?


TITCR, if it's available.

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JCougar
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby JCougar » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:17 am

beachbum wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:
quadsixm wrote:WUSTL.

Everybody's "goal" is "biglaw on the east coast." The odds of one doing well enough to reach that goal, at any school except for YHS, make paying sticker a huge risk. Especially when you've got a full ride sitting on the table.

Is the slightly better chance of getting biglaw over WUSTL really worth that much to you?


This is the best advice you can get OP.

While everybody at Duke and Michigan are killing each other to try to get one of those coveted spots so they can MAYBE pay it off after working themselves to death over the next 10 years, you can rest assured that you won't need a biglaw job to pay off your loans.


But for the OP's stated goals, WUSTL definitely isn't a better choice than Duke/Michigan.


But this is assuming the OP really wants biglaw. The attrition rate at biglaw is alarmingly high, especially given how much money you make. Everyone wants biglaw when they're in law school staring down atrocious loan repayments and for the prestige. But once you actually get a job in biglaw, you realize you have no life and the work isn't very exciting. Some people are made for that kind of job, but a lot aren't.

If you can graduate from law school without feeling forced into biglaw, that's livin' the life. I'd much rather work at a non-shitlaw small firm job making 60K a year with reasonable billable hours starting with no law school debt than make $160K but have $200K in loans to pay off.

If you're good lawyer, you'll move up fast in the small firm world, as long as you can get into a decent one. It's lower stress. The only thing that sucks is the pay, and the pay really doesn't suck that much if you have no debt. My best friend's brother works at a small firm doing tax law and he started out at $60K, but his parents paid for school, so he has no debt. He plays golf with clients half the day and almost never has to work on the weekends, and he loves it. He's making more than that right now...not quite $100K, but he will be soon.

If you're sure you want Biglaw despite the debt, go for Michigan. WUSTL still offers you a fair shot at Biglaw, but if you end up not getting it, the world isn't going to end if you don't have to make $1200 monthly loan repayments.

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beachbum
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby beachbum » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:17 am

quadsixm wrote:
FlightoftheEarls wrote:[
If we're sticking with this line of thought, here's my recommendation: OP, go to University of New Mexico School of Law. It dominates its market, the COA is going to be much lower, and the scenery is beautiful. This is the best advice you can possibly get.

:roll:


Like I said, the amount of risk that OP is comfortable with is a personal decision.

But to advise OP to not consider the off chance ( :P ) that he MIGHT not make biglaw... is a huge mistake.

Many high school basketball players have the "goal" of making the NBA. It would not be wise advice for them to blow off all other career options because the extra bball practice would give them a better chance of furthering that goal.


And if you're dealing with high school players who have a 1/2 shot of making the NBA, this analogy makes sense.

Informative
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby Informative » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:22 am

Verity wrote:Does WUSTL place well on the east coast?


No, it places horribly on the coasts. Pretty good for the midwest though.

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quadsixm
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby quadsixm » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:26 am

beachbum wrote:And if you're dealing with high school players who have a 1/2 shot of making the NBA, this analogy makes sense.


Well, it'd be like a high school basketball player who has a 27.5% shot at making the NBA for free, and who can increase that chance to 51% for a mere $3.5 Million dollar up-front payment (the NBA rookie equivalent of one year's biglaw salary; the proportional amount that OP would have to pay to go to michigan).
Last edited by quadsixm on Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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JCougar
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby JCougar » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:26 am

Informative wrote:
Verity wrote:Does WUSTL place well on the east coast?


No, it places horribly on the coasts. Pretty good for the midwest though.


I wouldn't say horribly, but it's nowhere near a T14. Before ITE, WUSTL was placing 1-2 people per year in Skadden, among other firms in NY and DC. But ITE, even the bottom end of the T14 isn't placing people into Skadden.

Also, over 10% of our class places in California on a yearly basis.

pereira6
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby pereira6 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:27 am

quadsixm wrote:
beachbum wrote:And if you're dealing with high school players who have a 1/2 shot of making the NBA, this analogy makes sense.


Well, it'd be like a high school basketball player who has a 27.5% shot at making the NBA for free, and who can increase that chance to 51% for a mere $3.5 Million dollar up-front payment (the NBA rookie equivalent of one year's biglaw salary).


Well said.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby NU_Jet55 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:29 am

beachbum wrote:And if you're dealing with high school players who have a 1/2 shot of making the NBA, this analogy makes sense.


--ImageRemoved--

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Verity
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby Verity » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:30 am

I'm inclined at this point to agree with those who chose WUSTL. Chances are good for the top quartile at WUSTL for Biglaw. Posters here expressed concern about job prospects for the median student, but how good are things in this job market for median students at Michigan and Duke?

Anyway, even if I didn't get Biglaw, I would be extremely happy with Midlaw making decent money and a free WUSTL JD. Not sure how things would bode with $150K+ debt and no assurance of Biglaw from M or D at their median. I would have to make top quartile at M or D to be in the same comfort zone, which is probably a much harder feat than at WUSTL.


EDIT: Can someone please explain WTF is up with all this anti-WUSTL trolling? It's everywhere.
Last edited by Verity on Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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NU_Jet55
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby NU_Jet55 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:37 am

showNprove wrote:
Reedie wrote:See what you can get out of Duke and Michigan (peer schools). Then visit all three. Remember that Michigan sends more grads to Chicago than Duke. Three excellent options, enjoy, and pay no attention to what anyone here says.

Are you saying Michigan and Duke are peer schools with WUSTL? Michigan and Duke won't even entertain the idea of giving OP money just because WUSTL is offering a full ride.


LOL How I missed this gem before I have no idea. Somehow I continue to underestimate you, TLS. But no, you continue to deliver posters like this. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

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Muenchen
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby Muenchen » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:40 am

Verity wrote:I'm inclined at this point to agree with those who chose WUSTL. Chances are good for the top quartile at WUSTL for Biglaw. Posters here expressed concern about job prospects for the median student, but how good are things in this job market for median students at Michigan and Duke?

Anyway, even if I didn't get Biglaw, I would be extremely happy with Midlaw making decent money and a free WUSTL JD. Not sure how things would bode with $150K+ debt and no assurance of Biglaw from M or D at their median. I would have to make top quartile at M or D to be in the same comfort zone, which is probably a much harder feat than at WUSTL.


EDIT: Can someone please explain WTF is up with all this anti-WUSTL trolling? It's everywhere.


OP, you should PM me as I am in a very, very similar predicament. We might be able to share info and sift through some of the pro/anti trolling and bad advice. Good luck with your decision though. And as with all TLS, take everything with a grain of salt.

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sundance95
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby sundance95 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:42 am

Verity wrote:Can someone please explain WTF is up with all this anti-WUSTL trolling? It's everywhere.

Not sure how saying that M and D place better in the East Coast and Chicago qualifies as anti-WUSTL trolling.

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Verity
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby Verity » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:45 am

sundance95 wrote:
Verity wrote:Can someone please explain WTF is up with all this anti-WUSTL trolling? It's everywhere.

Not sure how saying that M and D place better in the East Coast and Chicago qualifies as anti-WUSTL trolling.


"Are you saying Michigan and Duke are peer schools with WUSTL? Michigan and Duke won't even entertain the idea of giving OP money just because WUSTL is offering a full ride."

^^

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NU_Jet55
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby NU_Jet55 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:46 am

Verity wrote:Can someone please explain WTF is up with all this anti-WUSTL trolling? It's everywhere.


I think the reason is twofold:
1) The general TLS sentiment is biglaw or bust. Wash U is not a biglaw powerhouse.
2) Location: TLS has a severe pro-coastal, anti-midwestern bias.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:48 am

Verity wrote:I'm inclined at this point to agree with those who chose WUSTL. Chances are good for the top quartile at WUSTL for Biglaw. Posters here expressed concern about job prospects for the median student, but how good are things in this job market for median students at Michigan and Duke?

Anyway, even if I didn't get Biglaw, I would be extremely happy with Midlaw making decent money and a free WUSTL JD. Not sure how things would bode with $150K+ debt and no assurance of Biglaw from M or D at their median. I would have to make top quartile at M or D to be in the same comfort zone, which is probably a much harder feat than at WUSTL.


EDIT: Can someone please explain WTF is up with all this anti-WUSTL trolling? It's everywhere.

It's not anti-WUSTL trolling. WUSTL is a great school, and it certainly would be the correct response for many career paths. If your only stated path is biglaw, however, WUSTL is simply not the right choice. Now that you've mentioned that you're fine without biglaw, I would suggest that you should visit the schools and make a decision, but none of these schools would be the "wrong" choice.

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FlightoftheEarls
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby FlightoftheEarls » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:51 am

NU_Jet55 wrote:
Verity wrote:Can someone please explain WTF is up with all this anti-WUSTL trolling? It's everywhere.


I think the reason is twofold:
1) The general TLS sentiment is biglaw or bust. Wash U is not a biglaw powerhouse.
2) Location: TLS has a severe pro-coastal, anti-midwestern bias.

Yeah, because people telling OP to take Michigan over WUSTL for biglaw have an anti-midwestern bias.

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sundance95
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby sundance95 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:53 am

Verity wrote:
sundance95 wrote:
Verity wrote:Can someone please explain WTF is up with all this anti-WUSTL trolling? It's everywhere.

Not sure how saying that M and D place better in the East Coast and Chicago qualifies as anti-WUSTL trolling.


"Are you saying Michigan and Duke are peer schools with WUSTL? Michigan and Duke won't even entertain the idea of giving OP money just because WUSTL is offering a full ride."

^^

So...you are saying WUSTL is a peer school with Michigan and Duke?

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NU_Jet55
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby NU_Jet55 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:53 am

FlightoftheEarls wrote:
NU_Jet55 wrote:
Verity wrote:Can someone please explain WTF is up with all this anti-WUSTL trolling? It's everywhere.


I think the reason is twofold:
1) The general TLS sentiment is biglaw or bust. Wash U is not a biglaw powerhouse.
2) Location: TLS has a severe pro-coastal, anti-midwestern bias.

Yeah, because people telling OP to take Michigan over WUSTL for biglaw have an anti-midwestern bias.


Two things:
1) I believe the OP was asking about the anti-WUSTL trolling everywhere, not just on this thread; and
2) Michigan is a biglaw powerhouse, which would explain the disconnect you point out anyways.

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beachbum
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Re: WUSTL + full scholly vs. Michigan vs. Duke, both sticker

Postby beachbum » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:55 am

NU_Jet55 wrote:
beachbum wrote:And if you're dealing with high school players who have a 1/2 shot of making the NBA, this analogy makes sense.


--ImageRemoved--


Yeah man, I'm pissed.




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