NYU v. UC Berkeley v. UVa ($$) Forum

[CanadianWolf]

Consider Northwestern.

[FlightoftheEarls]

Consider Northwestern.

Agreed - Northwestern's program looks pretty solid as well (http://www.law.northwestern.edu/humanri ... ships.html).

OP: Did you get decent money from NU? If so, they should be a strong contender too.

[marlow]

Hey guys, just to update, UChicago just offered me $60,000 and UVA bumped me up to the dean's scholarship ($105,000). I'm not sure if this changes anything or if I should be editing this poll. I still do get the sense that Chicago is at least private sector oriented, regardless of its right-leaning political reputation (which I do think follows it). I wouldn't want to be the only person at UChicago possibly interested in public interest. Thanks for the Michigan info, I'm looking into Michigan a bit more heavily now. I will check out Northwestern, too. Does anyone know when NYU starts to make scholarship offers or if they've already started?

[Bumi]

Hey guys, just to update, UChicago just offered me $60,000 and UVA bumped me up to the dean's scholarship ($105,000). I'm not sure if this changes anything or if I should be editing this poll. I still do get the sense that Chicago is at least private sector oriented, regardless of its right-leaning political reputation (which I do think follows it). I wouldn't want to be the only person at UChicago possibly interested in public interest. Thanks for the Michigan info, I'm looking into Michigan a bit more heavily now. I will check out Northwestern, too. Does anyone know when NYU starts to make scholarship offers or if they've already started?

If I were you, I would email Chicago and ask to be put in contact with a student there who is pursuing public interest law so you could ask some questions. If they're offering you money, I'd be surprised if they weren't willing to help you get the info you need.

Honestly, that might be a good thing to do at all the schools to which you're admitted. You need to talk to PI people on the inside. You might get lucky on TLS and find a few, or you could just go straight to the source.

[worldtraveler]

I'm considering the same options (with UMich thrown in the mix). I nixed NYU early on because they didn't give me money and the cost of living is rid. I'd also much rather be in a low-key town during law school and travel elsewhere for internships than deal with city life (and I've lived in the city most of my life). Did you apply for one of the public interest scholarships? That could make a difference. UVA is a great school (did undergrad there) and the COL is much lower than Cal or NYU. It also invests a good amount in international and human rights law. Cal has smaller classes, seems to invest more in its students and fosters a less competitive environment than UVA. If all other factors are equal for you (weather, class size, clinics, region, rank, etc.), then it might be best to wait to hear from Berk regarding your scholarship.

Thanks for the advice, I think that waiting for Berkeley makes sense. UMich just offered me $70,000, too, so maybe I should be adding them to the mix.

I'd recommend that you look into Michigan's Geneva externship placements (http://www.law.umich.edu/mlawglobal/int ... ships.aspx). We're now sending 15-30 people per year to various externship placements with international NGOs and international government agencies in Geneva, and still a number more to human rights organizations in South Africa. Also note that these aren't just places where a single student has externed in the past decade or so, but rather consistent placement arrangements set up with these organizations. The 25-30 available placements for this year (we seem to be adding more each year, and some organizations accept more than 1 student) include:

South African Human Rights Commission (SAHRC) (Cape Town, Durban, Johannesburg)
Legal Resources Centre (LRC) (Cape Town, Durban, Johannesburg)
Refugee Clinic, University of Cape Town (Cape Town)
Gender, Health and Justice Research Unit (GHJ) (Cape Town)
Center for International Environmental Law (CIEL) (Geneva)
The GAVI Alliance: Legal Team (Geneva)
The Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria: The Legal Unit (Geneva)
International Commission of Jurists (Geneva)
International Centre for Trade and Sustainable Development (ICTSD) (Geneva)
International Labour Organization: Office of the Legal Adviser (Geneva)
International Organization for Migration (IOM): Intll Migration Law Unit (Geneva)
International Organization for Migration (IOM): Office of Legal Affairs (Geneva)
International Service for Human Rights (ISHR) (Geneva)
International Telecommunication Union (ITU): Legal Affairs Unit (Geneva)
Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR): Rule of Law and Democracy Section (Geneva)
Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR): Women’s Human Rights and Gender Unit (Geneva)
The South Centre (Geneva)
UN Conference on Trade And Development (UNCTAD): Division on Investment and Enterprise (DIAE) (Geneva)
UN Conference on Trade And Development (UNCTAD): Division on International Trade and Commodities (DITC) (Geneva)
UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR): Human Rights Liaison Unit (Geneva)
UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR): Regional Bureau for Africa (Geneva)
The United States Diplomatic Mission to the UN in Geneva: Legal Office (Geneva)
World Health Organization (WHO): Office of the Legal Counsel (Geneva)
World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO): Office of Legal Counsel (Geneva)


I know NYU also has a similarly established student externship program (only a couple in Europe, but in a bunch of other cool locations as well --LinkRemoved--). Berkeley has also sent a few students on externships (http://www.law.berkeley.edu/2821.htm), but the placement seems relatively limited by comparison. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any links to UVA's program (only their generic externship site - http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/academ ... nships.htm), so perhaps somebody could comment on whether they have pre-established placements with international organizations.

Between these organizations, it looks like Michigan and NYU have far more extensive programs for consistently placing students in externships. While that doesn't necessarily translate into a career (and you shouldn't approach this thinking it will), the path into these organizations typically consists of a top school + a strong interest/background + a relationship with the organization (or a professor with such a relationship who can get you in contact). NYU will offer much more geographic diversity in programs than Michigan, but it might be somewhat more difficult to break into the geographical location you want (only 5 placement programs within Europe, which many consider to be the bread and butter for many international government agencies/NGOs). Michigan's placement, while not as geographically dispersed, is very strong there. If you're interested in almost any kind of international/human-rights policy, you can probably find an organization that matches your interests.

Just to add a counterpoint, these programs are in no way exclusive or unique to Michigan. It does help to have something set up through your school, but you can hook up an internship on your own with the UN or other NGOs. If there is some place on this list that appeals to you, you can also contact Michigan and ask who their contact is, even if you go to another school. I did that for one of these. As long as you're not an asshole they would probably help you.

There are a few programs that can only be done from specific schools. Look into those if you can find the info. Berkeley sends people to Sierra Leone and I know NYU and Columbia have post-grad fellowship opportunities only for their students. Make sure you differentiate between programs that are solely for students of one school and just relationships that make it less of a headache to line up an internship.

[FlightoftheEarls]

Just to add a counterpoint, these programs are in no way exclusive or unique to Michigan. It does help to have something set up through your school, but you can hook up an internship on your own with the UN or other NGOs. If there is some place on this list that appeals to you, you can also contact Michigan and ask who their contact is, even if you go to another school. I did that for one of these. As long as you're not an asshole they would probably help you.

There are a few programs that can only be done from specific schools. Look into those if you can find the info. Berkeley sends people to Sierra Leone and I know NYU and Columbia have post-grad fellowship opportunities only for their students. Make sure you differentiate between programs that are solely for students of one school and just relationships that make it less of a headache to line up an internship.

I don't want to get into a semantic debate, but yes - many of them are. Now, many of them do have relationships with other schools (for example, the ICTSD has relationships with Harvard, Duke, and Georgetown, in addition to Michigan). And obviously these organizations and NGOs exist outside of Michigan, so of course it's possible to get an externship with them. But having these placements takes you outside the pool of thousands of law students who want to extern with these organizations and puts you within a much smaller subset of students with a reserved spot because of the existing relationship. Saying that it makes it "less of a headache" to just "hook up an externship" is somewhat disingenuous when you consider how highly sought after these programs tend to be.

It's fantastic that you've landed a placement yourself, but that doesn't mean it's just a snap of the fingers for most students who want these externships. Unless, of course, Berkeley only has one person every 4 years who cares to go on the majority of the placements listed on your school's website.

[pixytree]

Hey guys, just to update, UChicago just offered me $60,000 and UVA bumped me up to the dean's scholarship ($105,000). I'm not sure if this changes anything or if I should be editing this poll. I still do get the sense that Chicago is at least private sector oriented, regardless of its right-leaning political reputation (which I do think follows it). I wouldn't want to be the only person at UChicago possibly interested in public interest. Thanks for the Michigan info, I'm looking into Michigan a bit more heavily now. I will check out Northwestern, too. Does anyone know when NYU starts to make scholarship offers or if they've already started?

I know NYU already started notifying finalists of named scholarships; not sure about others.

[théo]

Yeah, I thought it was limited to the undergrad economics department. Didn't imagine it'd be an issue.

ohh because of milton friedman. lol. no i don't think that extends to the rest of the school, and i'm guessing the "conservative" atmosphere is more of a fiscal conservatism and nothing else. i mean, uchi is the best school in the (huuuuge) chicago area - there's no way it's a conservative campus.

I was a Chicago undergrad, and the law school does have a reputation for being (fiscally) conservative due to their "law and economics" thing. Don't underestimate the influence of the econ. department, though. We used to joke that no matter what political views you had coming into UChicago, you came out a libertarian....

On the other hand, I have a friend who went through Chicago law and is now doing public interest immigration law in California.