Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Where should I go?

Harvard
40
7%
Yale
295
53%
UChicago w/ Rubenstein
163
29%
Columbia w/ Hamilton
63
11%
 
Total votes: 561

r6_philly
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby r6_philly » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:11 am

jcunni5 wrote:The thing with Yale is it's basically guaranteed employment at graduation and probably for life it's pretty hard to turn that down

Yale


Why do you think people capable enough to get all these acceptances will have to worry about employment?

Ignatius Reilly
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby Ignatius Reilly » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:15 am

r6_philly wrote:
jcunni5 wrote:The thing with Yale is it's basically guaranteed employment at graduation and probably for life it's pretty hard to turn that down

Yale


Why do you think people capable enough to get all these acceptances will have to worry about employment?


below median at Uchicago and employment will be hard to get, correct?

r6_philly
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby r6_philly » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:17 am

Ignatius Reilly wrote:
below median at Uchicago and employment will be hard to get, correct?


I don't expect OP to be below median. Neither does Chicago, CLS, and others.

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Emma.
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby Emma. » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:27 am

Ignatius Reilly wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
jcunni5 wrote:The thing with Yale is it's basically guaranteed employment at graduation and probably for life it's pretty hard to turn that down

Yale


Why do you think people capable enough to get all these acceptances will have to worry about employment?


below median at Uchicago and employment will be hard to get, correct?


Depends what you want to do.

and anyway:

r6_philly wrote:
I don't expect OP to be below median. Neither does Chicago, CLS, and others.

The Real Jack McCoy
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby The Real Jack McCoy » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:52 am

I voted Chicago. Trust your gut.

I also second the above commentators that worrying about being jobless out of Chicago given your track record and connections seems like the wrong thing to be worrying about.

In any event, congrats on all the great offers.

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ArchRoark
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby ArchRoark » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:00 am

I didn't read all the replies so maybe this has been mentioned. IIRC Yale's LRAP covers undergrad loans.

legends159
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby legends159 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:36 am

HLS should not be a part of this equation. Since your parents are wealthy you will probably get no money from Harvard (nor Yale) so it should really be a poll of Yale v. Chicago.

I would recommend you go to Yale. And not because of the OMFG IT'S YALE!!! fanboy reasoning prevalent in TLS, but because of the opportunity to study and befriend people who are more gifted and accomplished than you. Sure, there will be smart and gifted people in Chicago as well, but there are more at Yale. At least for me, there is something about feeling less accomplished than my peers that drives me to become better. I think you'll get the same feeling if you go to Yale.

Furthermore, IMO the lack of grades makes learning much more enjoyable from an academic perspective.

hoopla14
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby hoopla14 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:17 am

r6_philly wrote:
Ignatius Reilly wrote:
below median at Uchicago and employment will be hard to get, correct?


I don't expect OP to be below median. Neither does Chicago, CLS, and others.


I think too people aren't really answering the question/concerns. While it's good to have voices offering supremely practical advice, people seem to be talking a lot of worst case scenario. Fact of the matter is that below median at Yale and AUSA (well, I suppose it depends on what district) is going to be difficult to get, even though you went to YALE. For the ambitions that OP lays out, Yale (or Harvard, for that matter) will make it easier, no doubt, but it's doable from Chicago, as long as you're a monster.

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oxford_don
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby oxford_don » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:43 am

hoopla14 wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
Ignatius Reilly wrote:
below median at Uchicago and employment will be hard to get, correct?


I don't expect OP to be below median. Neither does Chicago, CLS, and others.


I think too people aren't really answering the question/concerns. While it's good to have voices offering supremely practical advice, people seem to be talking a lot of worst case scenario. Fact of the matter is that below median at Yale and AUSA (well, I suppose it depends on what district) is going to be difficult to get, even though you went to YALE. For the ambitions that OP lays out, Yale (or Harvard, for that matter) will make it easier, no doubt, but it's doable from Chicago, as long as you're a monster.


Just want to put in my .02 cents about becoming an AUSA. IMO, my career goals are not that ambitious (BigLaw-->AUSA). I have met plenty of AUSAs and talked about where I should go to school. Here in Chicago, it is split 50/50% between people who went to T5 schools and came out of biglaw, and T2 students who came out of DA/some other firm. I have had senior AUSAs hear where I got in and reply "holy cr** you are a friggin genius. I only went to *insert generic T2 school here* Hiring in the office has a lot to do with who you know and what you can bring to the table. AUSA is not an easy job to get, but it is not something only reserved for the elite.

Also wanted to throw out another thought I have had about career goals. You can certainly carry the Yale degree with you for hte rest of your life, but once I get into firm life, isn't my continued employment/salary/opportunities to move up or lateral out going to be largely dependent on my job performance? 5-10 years into my career it will certainly matter where I went to school, but how much will it matter relative to how skilled of a lawyer I am?

Just a way to think about the valuation I need to make on a Yale degree and an extra $200k in loans.

hoopla14
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby hoopla14 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:43 am

oxford_don wrote:Just want to put in my .02 cents about becoming an AUSA. IMO, my career goals are not that ambitious (BigLaw-->AUSA). I have met plenty of AUSAs and talked about where I should go to school. Here in Chicago, it is split 50/50% between people who went to T5 schools and came out of biglaw, and T2 students who came out of DA/some other firm. I have had senior AUSAs hear where I got in and reply "holy cr** you are a friggin genius. I only went to *insert generic T2 school here* Hiring in the office has a lot to do with who you know and what you can bring to the table. AUSA is not an easy job to get, but it is not something only reserved for the elite.

Also wanted to throw out another thought I have had about career goals. You can certainly carry the Yale degree with you for hte rest of your life, but once I get into firm life, isn't my continued employment/salary/opportunities to move up or lateral out going to be largely dependent on my job performance? 5-10 years into my career it will certainly matter where I went to school, but how much will it matter relative to how skilled of a lawyer I am?

Just a way to think about the valuation I need to make on a Yale degree and an extra $200k in loans.


That's definitely possible. I'm in NY, so everyone here is gunning for AUSA in the SDNY, which I think is the hardest to get. But of course you aren't interested in NY.

And yes, after a while, job performance is what matters. Plenty of biglaw firms just use YLS grads for a few years and then send them on their way, while promoting grads from lower ranked schools to partner.

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Reinhardt
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby Reinhardt » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:05 am

I would go with Yale. Chicago will probably be non-stop stress with their quarter system and grade equivalents to A+++, A---, B+--, etc. Yale doesn't even have grades first semester. Debt is a concern, but Yale's LRAP will help you even if you join the circus after graduation, as TLS posters are fond of saying.

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Entchen
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby Entchen » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:38 pm

New Haven might be questionable, but Yale itself is stunningly beautiful. And has the best pizza.


/Connecticutian.

chasgoose
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby chasgoose » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:01 pm

I seriously don't get all the New Haven hate. It's really not that bad. Yale has basically bought all the property in downtown New Haven and brought in stores, restaurants, etc. that appeal its students. Yes if you walk outside of the main campus (which is really big) there can be trouble, but even then its nothing worse than what happens if you venture too far away from Chicago's campus. Chicago has the advantage of being a lot closer to real Chicago and thus more interesting things (and to be honest anyone who says New Haven is close to NYC is delusional, its close, but still 2 hours each way and thus not close enough) but Hyde Park itself has less to do than New Haven. Visit both, but see New Haven without prejudice its not nearly as bad as you think.

I will say, however, that New Haven is a giant pain in the ass to get to. It has an airport that gets like 3 flights a day (that require you to fly through PHL, the worst airport of time) the NYC airports are still two hours away (and if you just flew on a plane for 6 hours to get there its no fun to realize you have 2 more hours of your journey left) and Hartford leaves you stuck in the hands of the mob-run CT Limo, which overcharges for the worst bus service ever.

marlstone
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby marlstone » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:11 pm

Hi folks. I am pretty much in the same shoes. For me it's between HLS, YLS, SLS and Columbia (Hamilton). Did not apply to UChicago. Let me tell you little bit about my thought process:

1. SLS and Columbia are out. Thankfully money is not a huge factor for me, and am not a big fan of NY. Want to stay in the east coast. So basically it's down to HLS and YLS.

2. I am NOT interested in academia, and I know what I want to study in law school. Harvard seems to have a stronger focus on the field I am interested in. Also thinking of applying to business school and pursuing JD/MBA.

3. Career goal is to enter biglaw and work in either US or Asia. In long term, I am also interested in finance and buyside (investment) opportunities.

4. Boston is definitely more attractive than New Haven, but I guess New Haven is not unbearable. I must add though that I turned down Yale for undergrad primarily because of the location - I visited the city and was shocked by the stark difference in the atmosphere between the campus and the city.

I know this will bring some outrageous comments, but due to above reasons I am actually leaning towards HLS. It has stronger presence/faculty in the field of my interest and much stronger MBA program (though it is 4 years vs. 3 years at Yale). Am I really out of my mind to choose HLS over YLS? Seeing posts in this thread, I would think like 90% of the cross admits would choose YLS. Is that really the case?

The only reason I would choose YLS is because of its prestige, rarity, and better job prospects (oh, and less stress). If I want to get into biglaw, does YLS vs. HLS make that much difference? I am not trying to self-justify my choice - I just want to be fully informed. I do not know any lawyers who went to these schools, and though talking to current students has been definitely helpful, it is likely to be biased. I want some feedbacks from people who went through job searching processes, and are knowledgeable in the ecosystem of corporate lawyer world, who can give tangible advice.

Thanks!

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Knock
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby Knock » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:16 pm

marlstone wrote:Hi folks. I am pretty much in the same shoes. For me it's between HLS, YLS, SLS and Columbia (Hamilton). Did not apply to UChicago. Let me tell you little bit about my thought process:

1. SLS and Columbia are out. Thankfully money is not a huge factor for me, and am not a big fan of NY. Want to stay in the east coast. So basically it's down to HLS and YLS.

2. I am NOT interested in academia, and I know what I want to study in law school. Harvard seems to have a stronger focus on the field I am interested in. Also thinking of applying to business school and pursuing JD/MBA.

3. Career goal is to enter biglaw and work in either US or Asia. In long term, I am also interested in finance and buyside (investment) opportunities.

4. Boston is definitely more attractive than New Haven, but I guess New Haven is not unbearable. I must add though that I turned down Yale for undergrad primarily because of the location - I visited the city and was shocked by the stark difference in the atmosphere between the campus and the city.

I know this will bring some outrageous comments, but due to above reasons I am actually leaning towards HLS. It has stronger presence/faculty in the field of my interest and much stronger MBA program (though it is 4 years vs. 3 years at Yale). Am I really out of my mind to choose HLS over YLS? Seeing posts in this thread, I would think like 90% of the cross admits would choose YLS. Is that really the case?

The only reason I would choose YLS is because of its prestige, rarity, and better job prospects (oh, and less stress). If I want to get into biglaw, does YLS vs. HLS make that much difference? I am not trying to self-justify my choice - I just want to be fully informed. I do not know any lawyers who went to these schools, and though talking to current students has been definitely helpful, it is likely to be biased. I want some feedbacks from people who went through job searching processes, and are knowledgeable in the ecosystem of corporate lawyer world, who can give tangible advice.

Thanks!


In your shoes with you goals i'd probably take Columbia with Hamilton. Columbia places very well in NYC Biglaw, and having no tuition is basically a free $150k+ or more, when you calculate interest on loans.

The Real Jack McCoy
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby The Real Jack McCoy » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:47 pm

marlstone wrote:Hi folks. I am pretty much in the same shoes. For me it's between HLS, YLS, SLS and Columbia (Hamilton). Did not apply to UChicago. Let me tell you little bit about my thought process:

1. SLS and Columbia are out. Thankfully money is not a huge factor for me, and am not a big fan of NY. Want to stay in the east coast. So basically it's down to HLS and YLS.

2. I am NOT interested in academia, and I know what I want to study in law school. Harvard seems to have a stronger focus on the field I am interested in. Also thinking of applying to business school and pursuing JD/MBA.

3. Career goal is to enter biglaw and work in either US or Asia. In long term, I am also interested in finance and buyside (investment) opportunities.

4. Boston is definitely more attractive than New Haven, but I guess New Haven is not unbearable. I must add though that I turned down Yale for undergrad primarily because of the location - I visited the city and was shocked by the stark difference in the atmosphere between the campus and the city.

I know this will bring some outrageous comments, but due to above reasons I am actually leaning towards HLS. It has stronger presence/faculty in the field of my interest and much stronger MBA program (though it is 4 years vs. 3 years at Yale). Am I really out of my mind to choose HLS over YLS? Seeing posts in this thread, I would think like 90% of the cross admits would choose YLS. Is that really the case?

The only reason I would choose YLS is because of its prestige, rarity, and better job prospects (oh, and less stress). If I want to get into biglaw, does YLS vs. HLS make that much difference? I am not trying to self-justify my choice - I just want to be fully informed. I do not know any lawyers who went to these schools, and though talking to current students has been definitely helpful, it is likely to be biased. I want some feedbacks from people who went through job searching processes, and are knowledgeable in the ecosystem of corporate lawyer world, who can give tangible advice.

Thanks!


If you're doing the JD/MBA at the same school, Harvard is the stronger combined program. I'd choose HLS in your situation. At the very least it is a defensible choice.

Yale gets a lot of cross-admits but keep in mind Harvard gets around twice as many applications as YLS. I don't think the difference is as stark as TLSers make it seem (unless we're talking academia, where the difference is substantial). TLSers also love their rankings.

legends159
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby legends159 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:51 pm

Wait you want to do buy-side banking but you're going to law school? Why? Did you fail to get ibanking out of UG or something?

Yeah I guess go to HLS to try and get into HBS and then go banking route.

If you're trying to get banking from LS route then go to Yale so you have a higher chance at a V5 firm (IMO preferably S&C, DPW, STB b/c they work predominately with financial institutions) but WLRK & Cravath will close no doors. Do a few years of corporate work, network with clients and then lateral in-house as soon as you have the opportunity (probably after 3 years) to a bank and eventually work your way to buy-side hedge fund, private equity, or investment group.

As you can see, the second route is tougher and takes more time. Again, not sure why you would go to LS if your goal is to do banking. Legal degree is not as versatile as law schools hope you would believe.

marlstone
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby marlstone » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:11 pm

Thanks. I guess I need some more explanation. I already did couple of years of ibanking at a bulge bracket bank. Being in finance is NOT my ultimate goal. My dream is to use my background in both finance and law to start a fund myself, probably when I am 40+. But until then, I want to practice as an attorney, and want to specialize in the field that I am interested in. I have no intention to become an associate at ibanks or PE/HF out of law school - that will be a waste of time. But at the same time I don't want to end my career just as a lawyer.

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slax
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby slax » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:24 pm

marlstone wrote:Hi folks. I am pretty much in the same shoes. For me it's between HLS, YLS, SLS and Columbia (Hamilton). Did not apply to UChicago. Let me tell you little bit about my thought process:

1. SLS and Columbia are out. Thankfully money is not a huge factor for me, and am not a big fan of NY. Want to stay in the east coast. So basically it's down to HLS and YLS.

2. I am NOT interested in academia, and I know what I want to study in law school. Harvard seems to have a stronger focus on the field I am interested in. Also thinking of applying to business school and pursuing JD/MBA.

3. Career goal is to enter biglaw and work in either US or Asia. In long term, I am also interested in finance and buyside (investment) opportunities.

4. Boston is definitely more attractive than New Haven, but I guess New Haven is not unbearable. I must add though that I turned down Yale for undergrad primarily because of the location - I visited the city and was shocked by the stark difference in the atmosphere between the campus and the city.

I know this will bring some outrageous comments, but due to above reasons I am actually leaning towards HLS. It has stronger presence/faculty in the field of my interest and much stronger MBA program (though it is 4 years vs. 3 years at Yale). Am I really out of my mind to choose HLS over YLS? Seeing posts in this thread, I would think like 90% of the cross admits would choose YLS. Is that really the case?

The only reason I would choose YLS is because of its prestige, rarity, and better job prospects (oh, and less stress). If I want to get into biglaw, does YLS vs. HLS make that much difference? I am not trying to self-justify my choice - I just want to be fully informed. I do not know any lawyers who went to these schools, and though talking to current students has been definitely helpful, it is likely to be biased. I want some feedbacks from people who went through job searching processes, and are knowledgeable in the ecosystem of corporate lawyer world, who can give tangible advice.

Thanks!


Just wanted to point out the bolded phrases. Don't want to spend 3 years in NY for Columbia but want a career in biglaw, presumably in NY. I'm confused...

marlstone
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby marlstone » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:46 pm

Well, choosing where you work is different from choosing your school. Even though im not the biggest fan of NY, I guess I have no other choice if I want to work at biglaw in the US. I don't hate the city, I just want to be in a smaller and less crowded place for when I am in school. Also I don't mind working in HK/Asia when I graduate.

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edgarfigaro
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby edgarfigaro » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:54 pm

I liked visiting my sister in New Haven...great pizza, and a decent amount of stuff to do. It and Durham (though durham's better than New Haven) get so much undeserved crap here and elsewhere based on what they were 10 year before a vast majority of people on TLS were born.

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Reinhardt
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby Reinhardt » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:57 pm

I don't think pizza counts in Yale's favor when OP is also considering Chicago.

hoopla14
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby hoopla14 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:10 pm

Reinhardt wrote:I don't think pizza counts in Yale's favor when OP is also considering Chicago.


Now here's something I feel strongly about. I love Chicago, but the pizza is terrible. Deep dish is the worst.

mcat4life87
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby mcat4life87 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:15 pm

marlstone, there's biglaw in Chicago.

Hey-O
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Re: Harvard v. Yale v. Hamilton v. Rubenstein

Postby Hey-O » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:16 pm

I would go to Chicago. It fits your goals and life better.




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