MInneapolis- St. Thomas vs WIlliam Mitchell

[Jslondon1]

I have recently been accepted to and received scholarship offers from both William Mitchell and St. Thomas. I am hoping to hear some opinions on each school and advice on where to go. I was offered more money at St. Thomas... Please share your thoughts.

[rebexness]

[Hannibal]

At some point the school doesn't matter nearly as much as your ability to network. Take the money and work your ass off.

[Moral_Midgetry]

retake

[mpj_3050]

Minneapolis is glutted badly and these are both private schools. You can't pay 20k in tuition for schools like this (depends on scholarship and stipulations) because you still could have a ton of debt.

[Jslondon1]

I was offered 50% at William Mitchell and about 90% at St. Thomas. I got a good feel when I visited St. Thomas, but I want to make sure I am doing the best thing for my education and job prospects.

Thanks for the response

[jwrash]

I was offered 50% at William Mitchell and about 90% at St. Thomas. I got a good feel when I visited St. Thomas, but I want to make sure I am doing the best thing for my education and job prospects.

Thanks for the response

What are the stips at St. Thomas?

[Jslondon1]

Just that I keep a 2.0... Where did you graduate from? and where do you work now? If you don't mind me asking?

[jwrash]

I'd go with St. Thomas.

[thedive]

UST is somewhat appealing to me also, I recieved nearly full tuition there.

[typ3]

UST is somewhat appealing to me also, I recieved nearly full tuition there.

No.

The problem with St. Thomas is it has only been around for 10 years and has a minimal job placement and alumni network.

If you enjoy mailing out 250+ resumes and hearing nothing upon graduation, go St. Thomas.

[drylo]

UST is somewhat appealing to me also, I recieved nearly full tuition there.

No.

The problem with St. Thomas is it has only been around for 10 years and has a minimal job placement and alumni network.

If you enjoy mailing out 250+ resumes and hearing nothing upon graduation, go St. Thomas.

I have no dog in this hunt, but if I may...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=146346

[Hannibal]

UST is somewhat appealing to me also, I recieved nearly full tuition there.

No.

The problem with St. Thomas is it has only been around for 10 years and has a minimal job placement and alumni network.

If you enjoy mailing out 250+ resumes and hearing nothing upon graduation, go St. Thomas.

I have no dog in this hunt, but if I may...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=146346

Typ3 just got schooled.

[twairlines]

I was considering both schools before I chose T30 with $$$, but I would take UST if I had only these two choices. By the way some biglaw attorney in MSP has a forum going in the Discuss your Law School, and by all intentions if you want Minneapolis he seems to give the edge to St. thomas due to them fielding better applicants (just by looking at the stats they have higher 75% and medians; I mean that isn't good news for WM who has been around for so much longer). So although WM has a sweet alumni base that would prob. do someone better if they are lower in class rank just to hel get a job, those at the top at each school might be better suited at UST. I thought this was maybe at his firm only that this "New Shift" to go with UST over WM for top grads, but I emailed 7 firms in that area that I consider Biglaw, and 3 said UST is equal in terms of hiring in their offices in last few years despite lacking any alumni there. The other 4 had the same consensus as the poster in the other thread, and agrees that UST has less grads in their office, however they have hired more UST compared to WM grads in every one of the last couple of years.

So, take it for what it's worth, just thought I'd inform you while you still are considering schools. Since you seem to have only these two choices, I would say do yourself diligence and call these partners at firs or shoot them a quick email. They all got back to me within a day and actually were very willing to converse. DO YOUR LEGWORK. Don't re;y on someone's opinion because they can tell you the fact that a school who has been around 100 years with 300+ kids in a class has a larger alumni base than a school that has been around 10 tears with only 150+ grads in each entering class; DUH .

UST is proving to attract the better students and firms have taken notice, and now these firms have hired more UST grads in comparison to WM, even though half the hiring partners went to WM. Also, UST has a strong mentor externship program which each student is connected with a mentor in the legal field (judges, public defenders, partners at firms, an legal departments at 3M etc.) Also UST has an undergrad affiliation and these UST alumni are business heads at places like 3M, Target, and BestBuy; so although law alums are still small they have the insurance of fellow grads from different programs at UST. Edit Just noticed someone posted that link, definitely read up on it.

[Informative]

Use the search function. Recent thread that discusses the subject.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=146346

[typ3]

UST is somewhat appealing to me also, I recieved nearly full tuition there.

No.

The problem with St. Thomas is it has only been around for 10 years and has a minimal job placement and alumni network.

If you enjoy mailing out 250+ resumes and hearing nothing upon graduation, go St. Thomas.

I have no dog in this hunt, but if I may...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=146346

Typ3 just got schooled.

How did I get schooled?

It's fair knowledge that a school that has only been around for 10 years has a smaller alumni base than one that has been around for 55. Also, it's a little deceiving in the other thread that they go a little deeper into ST's class than W&M since W&M has over 1,000 law students at any time and St. Thomas has around 450. Obviously the class sizes are larger at W&M so it would be expected that you wouldn't go as deep, assuming cream always rises to the top. Further, one can't have their anecdotal evidence "schooled" by the use of someone elses anecdotal evidence- they are anecdotal for a reason. I've heard terrible things at both schools for graduates who aren't in the top 15%. You can get by with being top 50% in Minnesota, but at the lower school's it's a killer.

Hannibal just got schooled.

[dougroberts]

UST is somewhat appealing to me also, I recieved nearly full tuition there.

No.

The problem with St. Thomas is it has only been around for 10 years and has a minimal job placement and alumni network.

If you enjoy mailing out 250+ resumes and hearing nothing upon graduation, go St. Thomas.

I have no dog in this hunt, but if I may...

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=146346

drylo is incorrect. That thread reflects only 1 firm's views on hiring in the Twin Cities market, and is an annomoly. If you actually research all the larger firms in the Twin Cities, you will find mostly UMN graduates, and then WM graduates. Probably every firm in the Twin Cities has more WM graduates (even recently) than UST graduates with the exception of whatever firm that MinnesotaBigLaw11 refers to in that thread.

From either UST or Hamline, expect to mass mail for jobs as typ3 said given their lower rankings and/or smaller alumni base. From WM, expect to work hard to be in top 10-12% to land market-paying firm jobs. From UMN, expect to be in the top 20-25% for market-paying jobs.

[dougroberts]

I think twairlines's view is a bit skewed. Are you a 2L or 3L in the Twin Cities?

After going through 2L OCI (and landing a SA at a top 5 firm in MN), I realized that all these firms had few if any UST grads. All were UMN, WM, or out-of-state students.

[Hannibal]

Looking at the total lawyers practicing in a firm from UST law isn't relevant. Recent placement is, and at least one biglaw partner places UST over WM, rather than the other way around. You acted like UST hiring is a wasteland because of the lack of alumni compared to WM, which isn't the case thanks to UG.

I'd like to see your research, DR.

[salvage]

I'm struggling with the same choice. $20,000/year at St. Thomas (good academic standing stipulation) or 50% tuition at William Mitchell (2.75 stipulation). I'd prefer to attend WM, is there any tactful way to contact them and try to get more money? I'm not necessarily talking about leveraging (although advice on that would be nice), but maybe contacting them and letting them know I'd really love to attend but the financial burden of 50% tuition is still pretty damn big, could they perhaps up the scholarship?

[drylo]

drylo is incorrect. That thread reflects only 1 firm's views on hiring in the Twin Cities market, and is an annomoly. If you actually research all the larger firms in the Twin Cities, you will find mostly UMN graduates, and then WM graduates. Probably every firm in the Twin Cities has more WM graduates (even recently) than UST graduates with the exception of whatever firm that MinnesotaBigLaw11 refers to in that thread.

From either UST or Hamline, expect to mass mail for jobs as typ3 said given their lower rankings and/or smaller alumni base. From WM, expect to work hard to be in top 10-12% to land market-paying firm jobs. From UMN, expect to be in the top 20-25% for market-paying jobs.

I'm not sure how I am "incorrect" since I didn't even make a claim/argument.

How did I get schooled?

It's fair knowledge that a school that has only been around for 10 years has a smaller alumni base than one that has been around for 55. Also, it's a little deceiving in the other thread that they go a little deeper into ST's class than W&M since W&M has over 1,000 law students at any time and St. Thomas has around 450. Obviously the class sizes are larger at W&M so it would be expected that you wouldn't go as deep, assuming cream always rises to the top. Further, one can't have their anecdotal evidence "schooled" by the use of someone elses anecdotal evidence- they are anecdotal for a reason. I've heard terrible things at both schools for graduates who aren't in the top 15%. You can get by with being top 50% in Minnesota, but at the lower school's it's a killer.

You got schooled because your post was incredibly dismissive of St. Thomas, with the implication that WM had significantly better placement.

[thedive]

Does anyone predict that UST will rise in rank and establish itself, not only in MN but perhaps in N.D.? I have read that the school does have a substantial amount of financial backing.

Edit: Although reading something doesen't make it true. Just figured I would say that before someone pointed it out.

[ohnowtf]

WM 2l here. Don't go to either unless it is basically free. It seems that St. Thomas is starting perform better than WM at the big firms. But, only 1-10 students from each school will get a summer position. On the other hand, smaller firms are usually pretty loyal to their alum. Obviously, WM has been around longer so there are more WM alums running smaller shops. That helps. Still, ANY firm of ANY size gets bombarded with resumes every time they place an ad for a clerk. Of course, they are only looking for 1 person. The odds are against you all the time.

Overall, the market here is bad. Very bad. Grads from both schools are struggling.

If you have a better offer from St. Thomas, go there. If you have a better offer from WM, go there. Just be careful . . . and consider dropping out after your 1st semester if your grades are poor.