Temple (small scholly) vs. Maryland (out of state sticker) Forum

[seriously????]

Don't worry about my business plan, or what language I speak (it's not Spanish), or even where I plan to practice. I will do just fine for myself. The insight I wished to share was that Drexel has an excellent program and someone with numbers like the OP will do just fine attending the school if they get a nice scholarship offer. By the way Drexel is NOT like Widener at all. Drexel does not fail out a large chunk of the 1L class every year, and Drexel has much higher admissions standards. Regardless, anyone who dreams of working for big law firms should NOT attend any of the schools mentioned here, period. It is just too much of a risk. Retake the LSAT and get into Penn or Georgetown or even better, Yale.

First, how does Drexel have much higher admission standards than widener when a 162 and a 3.2 gets one a full ride? Second, you have to look at yourself when you are calling everyone a moron. A dream of biglaw at temple is just as hard, if not much easier, than being able to go solo and be successful right out of school. I agree though, if one wants to immediately go solo and have no debt, pick a school with a full ride and go for it. But I doubt that is the OP's dream. You think that its T14 and biglaw, or go somewhere else and start solo. You think that the hiring model of biglaw is now outdated, when actually, it is your idea to go solo that is outdated. Perhaps, that is what people did forty years ago (although they likely got some real experience first). Now, people think they can go solo on their own, but they second they take a significant case, realize they have no idea what they are doing, they have no manpower nor resources, they lose and are disbarred. Who knows, I hope I am wrong. I hope the law is that easy to master as a paralegal, and school and clinics teach one all they need to know. That would be sweet.

[arvcondor]

Don't worry about my business plan, or what language I speak (it's not Spanish), or even where I plan to practice. I will do just fine for myself. The insight I wished to share was that Drexel has an excellent program and someone with numbers like the OP will do just fine attending the school if they get a nice scholarship offer. By the way Drexel is NOT like Widener at all. Drexel does not fail out a large chunk of the 1L class every year, and Drexel has much higher admissions standards. Regardless, anyone who dreams of working for big law firms should NOT attend any of the schools mentioned here, period. It is just too much of a risk. Retake the LSAT and get into Penn or Georgetown or even better, Yale.

First, how does Drexel have much higher admission standards than widener when a 162 and a 3.2 gets one a full ride? Second, you have to look at yourself when you are calling everyone a moron. A dream of biglaw at temple is just as hard, if not much easier, than being able to go solo and be successful right out of school. I agree though, if one wants to immediately go solo and have no debt, pick a school with a full ride and go for it. But I doubt that is the OP's dream. You think that its T14 and biglaw, or go somewhere else and start solo. You think that the hiring model of biglaw is now outdated, when actually, it is your idea to go solo that is outdated. Perhaps, that is what people did forty years ago (although they likely got some real experience first). Now, people think they can go solo on their own, but they second they take a significant case, realize they have no idea what they are doing, they have no manpower nor resources, they lose and are disbarred. Who knows, I hope I am wrong. I hope the law is that easy to master as a paralegal, and school and clinics teach one all they need to know. That would be sweet.

I agree. Big firms in Philly actually hire just as many, if not more, Temple grads as they do Penn grads – and yes, I realize that, A) that is largely due to self-selection, and B) that sounds like rationalization. But it's true.

Also, tarp, not to be a dick, but thinking that you can start a solo firm (let alone a successful one) immediately out of school is kind of pushing it.

[HeavenWood]

Heaven, do you have any indication of how the Philly market is doing vis a vis other areas?

I'll ask my dad. His firm isn't currently hiring, but I'm not sure if that's the general norm. From what I've heard on TLS, Philly is doing pretty terribly.

[arvcondor]

Heaven, do you have any indication of how the Philly market is doing vis a vis other areas?

I'll ask my dad. His firm isn't currently hiring, but I'm not sure if that's the general norm. From what I've heard on TLS, Philly is doing pretty terribly.

Please do and then post on here for the benefit of the interested public!

[HeavenWood]

Also, tarp, not to be a dick, but thinking that you can start a solo firm (let alone a successful one) immediately out of school is kind of pushing it.

Also, the benefit of starting in a firm (even in the smallest of firms) is that you can learn by example. Law school doesn't adequately prepare you for practicing law in the real world, and in many firms, 1st-year associates are considered "useless" for this very reason.

[2things2]

Possibly very dumb question -- isn't Maryland a tier 1 law school and Temple a tier 2? What is a tier 1 school and what is a tier 2 school? Should this sway my decision between Temple and Maryland? Are there any horse socks? Is anyone listening to me?

[arvcondor]

Possibly very dumb question -- isn't Maryland a tier 1 law school and Temple a tier 2? What is a tier 1 school and what is a tier 2 school? Should this sway my decision between Temple and Maryland? Are there any horse socks? Is anyone listening to me?

Assuming this isn't a flame: Tier 1 refers to the top 50 schools on USNWR, Tier 2 to 51-100. Between UMD and Temple, the distinction is arbitrary.

There are better data to base a decision on, like this: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528

[HeavenWood]

Possibly very dumb question -- isn't Maryland a tier 1 law school and Temple a tier 2? What is a tier 1 school and what is a tier 2 school? Should this sway my decision between Temple and Maryland? Are there any horse socks? Is anyone listening to me?

Assuming this isn't a flame: Tier 1 refers to the top 50 schools on USNWR, Tier 2 to 51-100. Between UMD and Temple, the distinction is arbitrary.

There are better data to base a decision on, like this: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528

Meh, if it is a flame, it's such a lame (and easily answerable) flame that it's worth indulging, if only because a lot of people really don't understand such distinctions.

[phils34]

Don't worry about my business plan, or what language I speak (it's not Spanish), or even where I plan to practice. I will do just fine for myself. The insight I wished to share was that Drexel has an excellent program and someone with numbers like the OP will do just fine attending the school if they get a nice scholarship offer. By the way Drexel is NOT like Widener at all. Drexel does not fail out a large chunk of the 1L class every year, and Drexel has much higher admissions standards. Regardless, anyone who dreams of working for big law firms should NOT attend any of the schools mentioned here, period. It is just too much of a risk. Retake the LSAT and get into Penn or Georgetown or even better, Yale.

First, how does Drexel have much higher admission standards than widener when a 162 and a 3.2 gets one a full ride? Second, you have to look at yourself when you are calling everyone a moron. A dream of biglaw at temple is just as hard, if not much easier, than being able to go solo and be successful right out of school. I agree though, if one wants to immediately go solo and have no debt, pick a school with a full ride and go for it. But I doubt that is the OP's dream. You think that its T14 and biglaw, or go somewhere else and start solo. You think that the hiring model of biglaw is now outdated, when actually, it is your idea to go solo that is outdated. Perhaps, that is what people did forty years ago (although they likely got some real experience first). Now, people think they can go solo on their own, but they second they take a significant case, realize they have no idea what they are doing, they have no manpower nor resources, they lose and are disbarred. Who knows, I hope I am wrong. I hope the law is that easy to master as a paralegal, and school and clinics teach one all they need to know. That would be sweet.

drexel lsat medians: 2009 - 160; 2010 - 159
widener lsat medians: 2009 - 150-151?; 2010 - 151

...not saying that Drexel's stats are great, but they are nowhere near Widener's.

and to the guy saying he's going to make bank as a solo his first years out...what planet are you living on? It's great that you're defending the school (albeit in a thread re: Temple v. Maryland), but you're not helping your credibility when you make statements like that.

[tarp]

I think people on TLS, in general, underestimate the ability of sole practitioners to do well for themselves. If someone is motivated, has the business sense, and is practicing in a lucrative area, the possibilities are great. Also, someone who has worked in clinical settings or externships during law school, understands how to research, understands procedure, and has access to mentors and co-counsel for more complicated cases, should have no problem working as a solo right out of law school. Once you pass the bar exam, you are a lawyer. You are a professional. Do doctors get scared that they might not know enough if they open their own office? No, once they complete their residency they are ready to practice medicine. This may not be the right path for everybody. You have to be motivated enough to build your own law practice.

[seriously????]

I think people on TLS, in general, underestimate the ability of sole practitioners to do well for themselves. If someone is motivated, has the business sense, and is practicing in a lucrative area, the possibilities are great. Also, someone who has worked in clinical settings or externships during law school, understands how to research, understands procedure, and has access to mentors and co-counsel for more complicated cases, should have no problem working as a solo right out of law school. Once you pass the bar exam, you are a lawyer. You are a professional. Do doctors get scared that they might not know enough if they open their own office? No, once they complete their residency they are ready to practice medicine. This may not be the right path for everybody. You have to be motivated enough to build your own law practice.

again, not to be a dick, but doctors goto med school, then residency. so if lawyers are similar, we goto law school, then the first few years is like our residency.

don't get me wrong, you can do it, just ride slow homie

[arvcondor]

Possibly very dumb question -- isn't Maryland a tier 1 law school and Temple a tier 2? What is a tier 1 school and what is a tier 2 school? Should this sway my decision between Temple and Maryland? Are there any horse socks? Is anyone listening to me?

Assuming this isn't a flame: Tier 1 refers to the top 50 schools on USNWR, Tier 2 to 51-100. Between UMD and Temple, the distinction is arbitrary.

There are better data to base a decision on, like this: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=108528

Meh, if it is a flame, it's such a lame (and easily answerable) flame that it's worth indulging, if only because a lot of people really don't understand such distinctions.

I've spent so much damn time on TLS that I assume by this point that everyone is a USNWR scholar. This makes me an asshole, and I am not proud of it.

In other news, I'm fairly sure that I will be attending Temple over Maryland due to its cost and its swiftness in its aid process compared to how Maryland drags its heels and dicks you around with "interviews" before awarding scholarships. I'm not spending the next two months praying that Maryland will defray my $35k tuition by $5000.

Thanks for all the advice to those who gave advice, although I'm still watching this lovedrexel/fuckdrexel dialogue until it fizzles. (Also still watching for Heaven's relay of his dad's perspective.)