HYS (and Columbia) biglaw partnership comparison

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godofcoffee
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Joined: Sat Jun 26, 2010 2:02 am

HYS (and Columbia) biglaw partnership comparison

Postby godofcoffee » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:34 pm

Hi all,

I've been deciding between these 4 law schools, and since Biglaw is a goal of mine, I've been doing some research on placement. To supplement the placement stats already out there (which are sort of skewed by the fact that clerkships > biglaw in some cases), I thought I'd informally go to the websites of some V100 firms and see where the graduates in question end up working and where they end up partnering. (Actually, the lowest-ranked that I looked at was 17th-ranked Latham+Watkins). My findings might be instructive, so I'm posting them here. X/Y means that there are X partners and Y lawyers total. I think that the ratio is arguably more interesting than the sheer numbers. There's a reasonable mix of firms from different parts of the country. Because I'm from Canada and thought that an international perspective might be more objective, there are also two Canadian firms.

Watchtell (NYC)
Yale - 5/17
Harvard - 15/44
Stanford - 5/13
Columbia - 21/47

Cravath (NYC) (no partner stats)
Yale - 27
Harvard - 79
Stanford - 6
Columbia - 97

Sullivan+Cromwell (NYC)
Yale - 10/48
Harvard - 38/115
Stanford - 5/24
Columbia - 28/95

Williams+Connolly (DC)
Yale - 9/21
Harvard - 22/48
Stanford - 5/8
Columbia - 3/10

Kirkland Ellis (Chi)
Yale - 10/23
Harvard - 73/141
Stanford - 5/18
Columbia - 24/56

Latham+Watkins (LA)
Yale - 17/36
Harvard - 55/113
Stanford - 1/3
Columbia - 0/2

Torys (Can, NYC)
Yale - 0/1
Harvard - 5/6
Stanford - 1/2
Columbia - 6/11

McCarthy Tetrault (Can)
Yale - 1/1
Harvard - 2/2
Stanford - 0/0
Columbia - 1/2

Total Lawyers
Harvard - 548
Columbia - 320
Yale - 206
Stanford - 74

Total Lawyers / Class Size
Yale - 0.3509
Harvard - 0.0304
Columbia - 0.2526
Stanford - 0.1386

Total Partners/Lawyers (minus Cravath)
Harvard - 38.32%
Stanford - 29.73%
Columbia - 25.94%
Yale - 25.24%

Of course, my sample is small and New York-heavy, which is obviously a big advantage for Columbia. At the non-NYC firms, Columbia pretty much got whomped.

I was surprised that Yale's partner ratio was so low, and that Stanford's lawyers/class size was so low. Maybe the Yale kids are just TOO smart for biglaw? And maybe all the clever Stanfordites are going in-house?

Anyway, I hope you've found this instructive, as I have. Obviously you shouldn't take these stats too seriously, but it's another thing to factor in for sure. If anybody wants to expand these stats, I'd be grateful.

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chup
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Re: HYS (and Columbia) biglaw partnership comparison

Postby chup » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:36 am

I'm not really sure what this metric is supposed to demonstrate. Placement stats can tell you something about a school; partner stats can't. A person's ability to make biglaw partner is like 99.8% contingent on their ability to work horrible hours and complete often-uninteresting and shitty tasks at a constant pace for the better part of a decade. It has virtually nothing to do with whether you went to Stanford or Harvard.

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johnnyutah
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Re: HYS (and Columbia) biglaw partnership comparison

Postby johnnyutah » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:39 am

chup wrote:A person's ability to make biglaw partner is like 99.8% contingent on their ability to work horrible hours and complete often-uninteresting and shitty tasks at a constant pace for the better part of a decade.

And the other .2% is your ability to make clients like you by playing golf with them.

BeachandRun23
Posts: 328
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Re: HYS (and Columbia) biglaw partnership comparison

Postby BeachandRun23 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:34 am

chup wrote:I'm not really sure what this metric is supposed to demonstrate. Placement stats can tell you something about a school; partner stats can't. A person's ability to make biglaw partner is like 99.8% contingent on their ability to work horrible hours and complete often-uninteresting and shitty tasks at a constant pace for the better part of a decade. It has virtually nothing to do with whether you went to Stanford or Harvard.


This. Also, the stats must be adjusted for class size (which you do at the end). The raw data means nothing. Obviously harvard is going to send alot more lawyers to different firms, they graduate 2-3x more lawyers each year than yale.

ShakeDemHatersOff
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Re: HYS (and Columbia) biglaw partnership comparison

Postby ShakeDemHatersOff » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:40 am

chup wrote:I'm not really sure what this metric is supposed to demonstrate. Placement stats can tell you something about a school; partner stats can't. A person's ability to make biglaw partner is like 99.8% contingent on their ability to work horrible hours and complete often-uninteresting and shitty tasks at a constant pace for the better part of a decade. It has virtually nothing to do with whether you went to Stanford or Harvard.


But partner numbers also can affect the number of students firms will consider from each school.

For example if there are 50 partners from Harvard and only 5 partners from Columbia at a particular firm. I'm sure that firm when they do EIP is gonna favor having more slots available for HLS students than CLS students.

And vice-versa.

CLS superior placement at top NY firms is largely due to the fact their alumni network is so powerful at the top ranks. If Cravath has 2x as many CLS partners than any other school, you best believe CLS students will have more slots available during EIP than any other school.

So contrary to your premise, partner stats is CRITICAL when it comes to placement because it tells how strong an alumni network you can have any particular firm.

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Grizz
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Re: HYS (and Columbia) biglaw partnership comparison

Postby Grizz » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:44 am

ShakeDemHatersOff wrote:
chup wrote:I'm not really sure what this metric is supposed to demonstrate. Placement stats can tell you something about a school; partner stats can't. A person's ability to make biglaw partner is like 99.8% contingent on their ability to work horrible hours and complete often-uninteresting and shitty tasks at a constant pace for the better part of a decade. It has virtually nothing to do with whether you went to Stanford or Harvard.


But partner numbers also can affect the number of students firms will consider from each school.

For example if there are 50 partners from Harvard and only 5 partners from Columbia at a particular firm. I'm sure that firm when they do EIP is gonna favor having more slots available for HLS students than CLS students.

And vice-versa.

CLS superior placement at top NY firms is largely due to the fact their alumni network is so powerful at the top ranks. If Cravath has 2x as many CLS partners than any other school, you best believe CLS students will have more slots available during EIP than any other school.

So contrary to your premise, partner stats is CRITICAL when it comes to placement because it tells how strong an alumni network you can have any particular firm.


That's not how it works.

ShakeDemHatersOff
Posts: 45
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Re: HYS (and Columbia) biglaw partnership comparison

Postby ShakeDemHatersOff » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:26 pm

rad law wrote:
ShakeDemHatersOff wrote:
chup wrote:I'm not really sure what this metric is supposed to demonstrate. Placement stats can tell you something about a school; partner stats can't. A person's ability to make biglaw partner is like 99.8% contingent on their ability to work horrible hours and complete often-uninteresting and shitty tasks at a constant pace for the better part of a decade. It has virtually nothing to do with whether you went to Stanford or Harvard.


But partner numbers also can affect the number of students firms will consider from each school.

For example if there are 50 partners from Harvard and only 5 partners from Columbia at a particular firm. I'm sure that firm when they do EIP is gonna favor having more slots available for HLS students than CLS students.

And vice-versa.

CLS superior placement at top NY firms is largely due to the fact their alumni network is so powerful at the top ranks. If Cravath has 2x as many CLS partners than any other school, you best believe CLS students will have more slots available during EIP than any other school.

So contrary to your premise, partner stats is CRITICAL when it comes to placement because it tells how strong an alumni network you can have any particular firm.


That's not how it works.


oh really?

well then educate me oh great biglaw hiring partner...

how exactly do you determine how many kids your willing to get from each school?

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Grizz
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Re: HYS (and Columbia) biglaw partnership comparison

Postby Grizz » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:28 pm

ShakeDemHatersOff wrote:well then educate me oh great biglaw hiring partner...


I'll let chup handle it, but as to the above, you don't need to be a biglaw partner to know how it works herp derp

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Blindmelon
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Re: HYS (and Columbia) biglaw partnership comparison

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Feb 06, 2011 2:17 pm

Selecting a few firms doesn't really show anything. Some firms prefer some schools over others (e.g, Goodwin Proctor takes tons of BU students, while Ropes and Gray tends to be more BC heavy) - if you just used R+G, BC would look like it kills BU in placement.




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