U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Which one?

U of Denver
8
42%
Loyola LA
7
37%
U of San Diego
4
21%
 
Total votes: 19

bakerka2
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U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby bakerka2 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:52 pm

$20,000/year Denver, renewable with a 3.0 GPA.
$23,000/year Loyola, renewable by staying within the top like 3rd or half of the class (sorry it's been a while since I looked at it)
Just got accepted to USD today, no scholly award yet, but let's assume it's something similar to the others. Loyola and USD are ranked the same.

I'm open to practicing in CO, CA or anywhere else in the Mountain/West Coast region, so this really isn't a huge factor. I know they're all regional schools and I would definitely have no complaints about being 'stuck' in CO or SoCal for a while. Just want to get people's input on the career prospects for each school. So far I think Loyola would be my last choice, while Cali seems awesome, LA has no appeal for me. And COL is about twice what it is in Denver. I also was wondering about competition in CA since there's so many more schools out there. While Denver is ranked 80th (compared to 56th for the other two), there's only two schools in CO. I know it's a lot smaller state, but it also seems like CA's economy sucks more.

I'd appreciate any thoughts/input!

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General Tso
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby General Tso » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:09 pm

I think you are incorrect to assume that DU would be more likely to land a you a legal job. Denver's market is pretty small, and it is a desirable enough city to attract many T14 graduates. My impression from reading CU/DU threads on TLS is that it is a brutal job market right now for attorneys. That's not to say that CA is much better, just don't make your decision on the basis that one will land you a job more easily than the other.

here is a chart of Loyola grad destinations based on CalBar data http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... 0&g=2&pp=5

FWIW, I'd try to negotiate a slightly higher scholarship at Loyola, attend there, and drop out if you lose the scholarship. Seriously, go into this prepared to DROP OUT if you lose your scholarship. There is no way that any law school that is not Stanford, Boalt, or UCLA is worth 100k+ debt right now.

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Hopeful_Me
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby Hopeful_Me » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:10 pm

bakerka2 wrote:$20,000/year Denver, renewable with a 3.0 GPA.
$23,000/year Loyola, renewable by staying within the top like 3rd or half of the class (sorry it's been a while since I looked at it)
Just got accepted to USD today, no scholly award yet, but let's assume it's something similar to the others. Loyola and USD are ranked the same.

I'm open to practicing in CO, CA or anywhere else in the Mountain/West Coast region, so this really isn't a huge factor. I know they're all regional schools and I would definitely have no complaints about being 'stuck' in CO or SoCal for a while. Just want to get people's input on the career prospects for each school. So far I think Loyola would be my last choice, while Cali seems awesome, LA has no appeal for me. And COL is about twice what it is in Denver. I also was wondering about competition in CA since there's so many more schools out there. While Denver is ranked 80th (compared to 56th for the other two), there's only two schools in CO. I know it's a lot smaller state, but it also seems like CA's economy sucks more.

I'd appreciate any thoughts/input!


Hey first of all, congrats! These are regional schools, so really think about where you want to live. If you're stuck on making the big firm salary, none of these may be the school for you. I'm a Denver native and am currently living in LA, I warn you, try out LA before you decide to spend your life here. It's a pretty tough city, super expensive, TONS of traffic and not so much of an outdoorsy sort of place. Denver is awesome high quality of life, great things to do outdoors, awesome music scene and people there really are generally pretty happy. Looks lke you've got some thinking to do, but this decesion is really based on where you think you'll want to spend your life, so don't take it lightly!

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General Tso
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby General Tso » Fri Feb 04, 2011 5:13 pm

Hopeful_Me wrote:
Hey first of all, congrats! These are regional schools, so really think about where you want to live. If you're stuck on making the big firm salary, none of these may be the school for you. I'm a Denver native and am currently living in LA, I warn you, try out LA before you decide to spend your life here. It's a pretty tough city, super expensive, TONS of traffic and not so much of an outdoorsy sort of place. Denver is awesome high quality of life, great things to do outdoors, awesome music scene and people there really are generally pretty happy. Looks lke you've got some thinking to do, but this decesion is really based on where you think you'll want to spend your life, so don't take it lightly!


strange...I prefer LA to Denver. For me, Denver is almost like being in Texas, only with snow in the winter. I almost attended CU Boulder over Hastings, but disliked the area so much that I chose Hastings.

Most people seem to love Denver, so perhaps I am in the minority. I can only suggest that the original poster visit both areas before making a decision.

bakerka2
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby bakerka2 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 6:40 pm

Does anyone know about the schools' career placement? I'm not interested in biglaw, but I just want to make sure I'm not on the streets/can pay back my debt when I'm done!

FWIW, I'd only go to Loyola if it had an overwhelming better career placement over both USD and DU. I'm not and will never be an LA kind of girl. Mountains and beaches > traffic and smog. Plus Loyola will cost more overall than DU.

BeautifulSW
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby BeautifulSW » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:18 pm

Hopeful_Me wrote:For me, Denver is almost like being in Texas, only with snow in the winter


I think I'll stand over here, General, while an affronted diety in the image of a huge John Denver-faced mountain goat strikes you with a thunderbolt...Texas, indeed!

To the OP, I couldn't begin to tell you which school to take except to suggest that you read the profiles of each on this site. I, too, much prefer Denver to the Great Big Freeway but it's just three years out of your forty year career in the law (or so one hopes). You can do that, as my Pub. Def. clients used to say, "standing on your head" if the result is better career prospects wherever you choose to live.

(Unless, of course, you are an avid skier. Then Denver U. is the obvious choice regardless of ANY other consideration...) :)

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General Tso
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby General Tso » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:28 pm

BeautifulSW wrote:
Hopeful_Me wrote:For me, Denver is almost like being in Texas, only with snow in the winter


I think I'll stand over here, General, while an affronted diety in the image of a huge John Denver-faced mountain goat strikes you with a thunderbolt...Texas, indeed!



yeah the mountains are nice but its like an hour away. Denver itself is not so different from Dallas...just flat grasslands, and boring downtown. I didn't find most of the neighborhoods to be very charming either. The huge old houses are nice, but the smaller old houses lack the craftsman charm you see in small old houses on the west coast. It's crazy what people will pay for mediocre houses in Washington Park (400-500k for houses that would cost you half that in Portland) because those are the only houses in Denver that have ANY character whatsoever. The new developments are cookie cutter central. Typical middle america, in my opinion.

OP - DU is fine, but be sure to drop out if you lose your scholarship. I would not be surprised if many DU people are earning in the 40-50k range to start their careers. Not bad money, but be sure that your debt level is low enough to get by on such a salary.

BeautifulSW
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby BeautifulSW » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:53 pm

Then the Portland housing market has tanked even worse than Denver's. Quite possible, I suppose.

Well, I was born and raised in the Seattle/Olympia vicinity and I love it there but Denver, at least, has sunny days all year. I do agree with you about the cookie cutter housing on the Front Range. What's really depressing is the cookie-cutter building also dominates the resorts, places like Vail and Keystone. Yeah, and I guess you're right about the older housing stock, too. It does lack charm for the most part.

My favorite mountain town is probably Silverton but lordy! Who could take those awful winters? I also really like Idaho Springs but you have to make a living somehow and I can't deal blackjack.

FWIW, I did vote for DU even though I actually like L.A.

BeautifulSW
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby BeautifulSW » Fri Feb 04, 2011 7:57 pm

And I agree with your advice about DU.

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General Tso
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby General Tso » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:02 pm

BeautifulSW wrote:Then the Portland housing market has tanked even worse than Denver's. Quite possible, I suppose.

yeah it is brutal. Oregon has been plagued by high unemployment and the salaries there did not justify the high home prices to begin with. I'd love to move there but that is quite possibly the hardest legal market in which to find a job.

it's strange how CA, NV, AZ tanked in 2007-2008, but WA and OR did not start to drop until mid 2009. Here's a pretty fire and brimstone blog that is covering the PDX crash, in case you are interested http://portlandhousing.blogspot.com/
Last edited by General Tso on Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Teoeo
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby Teoeo » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:04 pm

San Diego has the best control on its market. + its San Diego... thats what I would choose =P

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General Tso
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby General Tso » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:05 pm

Teoeo wrote:San Diego has the best control on its market. + its San Diego... thats what I would choose =P


I would take USD over Loyola as well. In a heartbeat. But OP hasn't heard from them on $$ yet.

bakerka2
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby bakerka2 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:14 pm

Teoeo wrote:San Diego has the best control on its market.


good to know

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twert
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby twert » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:15 pm

did you get full scholarships anywhere lower ranked? I'd take southwestern or cal western full over loyola or usd, even with half scholarships

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Teoeo
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby Teoeo » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:16 pm

twert wrote:did you get full scholarships anywhere lower ranked? I'd take southwestern or cal western full over loyola or usd, even with half scholarships


I'll have to dissent. I would never take southwester or cal western at scholarship over USD ITE.

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dr123
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby dr123 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:19 pm

,,,,
Last edited by dr123 on Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

bakerka2
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby bakerka2 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:30 pm

dr123 wrote:Denver, the mountain west is the hidden gem of this country, I live in the northern rockies and its so beautiful. The rockies are free of all that coastal elitism


That's why I'm moving to Denver tomorrow!!! Oh and my bf lives there and Michigan is a black hole for employment.

Also, I didn't apply anywhere lower than Loyola, USD, or Denver. I am way too freaked out about getting a job to go to a school ranked any lower than these. I'm still waiting to hear back from the 10 or so higher-ranked schools I applied to, but just wanted to get a gauge for these ones, since my odds are probably against me at schools like CU Boulder and UC Davis... so far I am waitlisted at W&L and Wake Forest, but didn't really have my heart set on either of those anyway, just got fee-waivers for them.

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General Tso
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby General Tso » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:30 pm

try to negotiate a higher scholarship with DU. many private schools will up your $$ if you ask. you might want to use your better offers at higher ranked schools as leverage.

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Grizz
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby Grizz » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:33 pm

General Tso wrote:I think you are incorrect to assume that DU would be more likely to land a you a legal job. Denver's market is pretty small, and it is a desirable enough city to attract many T14 graduates. My impression from reading CU/DU threads on TLS is that it is a brutal job market right now for attorneys. That's not to say that CA is much better, just don't make your decision on the basis that one will land you a job more easily than the other.

here is a chart of Loyola grad destinations based on CalBar data http://californiabar.globl.org/report.p ... 0&g=2&pp=5

FWIW, I'd try to negotiate a slightly higher scholarship at Loyola, attend there, and drop out if you lose the scholarship. Seriously, go into this prepared to DROP OUT if you lose your scholarship. There is no way that any law school that is not Stanford, Boalt, or UCLA is worth 100k+ debt right now.


This

or retake/reapply

bakerka2
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby bakerka2 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:52 pm

Does Loyola stack their sections? I feel like any scholly contingent on rank instead of GPA is a potential red flag.

Also, I can't retake/reapply. That's what I did last year instead of going to Seton Hall, DePaul, or Loyola Chicago.

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Grizz
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby Grizz » Fri Feb 04, 2011 10:55 pm

bakerka2 wrote:Does Loyola stack their sections? I feel like any scholly contingent on rank instead of GPA is a potential red flag.

Also, I can't retake/reapply. That's what I did last year instead of going to Seton Hall, DePaul, or Loyola Chicago.


I don't know if they "stack" per se, but it wouldn't be surprising to me if they gave out scholarships to more people that can mathematically keep them, thanks to the curve.

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General Tso
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby General Tso » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:10 pm

rad law wrote:
bakerka2 wrote:Does Loyola stack their sections? I feel like any scholly contingent on rank instead of GPA is a potential red flag.

Also, I can't retake/reapply. That's what I did last year instead of going to Seton Hall, DePaul, or Loyola Chicago.


I don't know if they "stack" per se, but it wouldn't be surprising to me if they gave out scholarships to more people that can mathematically keep them, thanks to the curve.


you can look at LSAC data for the % of students receiving scholarships. I think for USD in 2008 it was like 55% or so that got scholarships, and only the top 30% keep them. You have to consider that at least a few non-scholarship people place inside the top 30%. So it's probably like a 50/50 chance of losing the scholarship based on raw numbers

bakerka2
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby bakerka2 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:14 pm

General Tso wrote:
rad law wrote:
bakerka2 wrote:Does Loyola stack their sections? I feel like any scholly contingent on rank instead of GPA is a potential red flag.

Also, I can't retake/reapply. That's what I did last year instead of going to Seton Hall, DePaul, or Loyola Chicago.


I don't know if they "stack" per se, but it wouldn't be surprising to me if they gave out scholarships to more people that can mathematically keep them, thanks to the curve.


you can look at LSAC data for the % of students receiving scholarships. I think for USD in 2008 it was like 55% or so that got scholarships, and only the top 30% keep them. You have to consider that at least a few non-scholarship people place inside the top 30%. So it's probably like a 50/50 chance of losing the scholarship based on raw numbers


So just based on that would DU be better since I just need to keep a 3.0?

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General Tso
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby General Tso » Fri Feb 04, 2011 11:24 pm

bakerka2 wrote:
General Tso wrote:
rad law wrote:
bakerka2 wrote:Does Loyola stack their sections? I feel like any scholly contingent on rank instead of GPA is a potential red flag.

Also, I can't retake/reapply. That's what I did last year instead of going to Seton Hall, DePaul, or Loyola Chicago.


I don't know if they "stack" per se, but it wouldn't be surprising to me if they gave out scholarships to more people that can mathematically keep them, thanks to the curve.


you can look at LSAC data for the % of students receiving scholarships. I think for USD in 2008 it was like 55% or so that got scholarships, and only the top 30% keep them. You have to consider that at least a few non-scholarship people place inside the top 30%. So it's probably like a 50/50 chance of losing the scholarship based on raw numbers


So just based on that would DU be better since I just need to keep a 3.0?


could be. find out what their median is...at most schools median = 3.0.

BeautifulSW
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Re: U San Diego, Loyola LA, U of Denver?

Postby BeautifulSW » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:35 am

Look, OP, DU isn't any sort of glamour school. It really isn't. But from my own observation, your DU degree WILL sell, if not in Denver, then elsewhere in the Front Range, if not there, here in New Mexico. I imagine that Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, and maybe even Utah are not innocent of DU trained lawyers. Other than in the Denver Megopolis itself, the Rockies are not particularly over-lawyered. The trick is to keep going there as cheap as possible so you can manage the resulting debt.

If you can keep your DU scholarship, well and good. If you lose it after the first year, either go part-time and work or drop out altogether. Frankly, given what you've said, DU is your best choice.




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