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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
SF is out--it's the right call not to use bids on that. LA will be hard with your stats--your best shot at getting "teh 160k" is in NYC, so I would go more like 75-25 on your split, with the 25% in LA targeted at less prestigious firms.
Sounds like you basically have the right idea though, so good luck.
Sounds like you basically have the right idea though, so good luck.
- Patriot1208
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
Didn't you apply ed to gw?
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
I wouldn't assume ending up in the top 1/3.
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
This is only an issue because he's specifying the LA market, right? If it were NYC or biglaw in general, shouldn't above median still be sufficient at MVP? Or has the market been hit that badly?
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- Patriot1208
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
Median or even slightly below gives you biglaw chances from mvpFrankie55 wrote:This is only an issue because he's specifying the LA market, right? If it were NYC or biglaw in general, shouldn't above median still be sufficient at MVP? Or has the market been hit that badly?
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
This sounds like good advice.Rule11 wrote:SF is out--it's the right call not to use bids on that. LA will be hard with your stats--your best shot at getting "teh 160k" is in NYC, so I would go more like 75-25 on your split, with the 25% in LA targeted at less prestigious firms.
Sounds like you basically have the right idea though, so good luck.
I wouldn't waste bids on SF.
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
lol, OP hasn't even applied to law school it.cornellbeez wrote:This sounds like good advice.Rule11 wrote:SF is out--it's the right call not to use bids on that. LA will be hard with your stats--your best shot at getting "teh 160k" is in NYC, so I would go more like 75-25 on your split, with the 25% in LA targeted at less prestigious firms.
Sounds like you basically have the right idea though, so good luck.
I wouldn't waste bids on SF.
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
is this because both cal and sls are right there?cornellbeez wrote:This sounds like good advice.Rule11 wrote:SF is out--it's the right call not to use bids on that. LA will be hard with your stats--your best shot at getting "teh 160k" is in NYC, so I would go more like 75-25 on your split, with the 25% in LA targeted at less prestigious firms.
Sounds like you basically have the right idea though, so good luck.
I wouldn't waste bids on SF.
- fatduck
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
No, SF biglaw is almost non-existent ITE. Therefore, SF offices can afford to be super selective. Top 1/3 probably isn't good enough for SF biglaw from non-HYS T-14s, including Boalt. Grades >>> T-14 school outside of HYS. I know people from MVP with SF biglaw, but they were all within the top quarter.paulinaporizkova wrote:is this because both cal and sls are right there?cornellbeez wrote:This sounds like good advice.Rule11 wrote:SF is out--it's the right call not to use bids on that. LA will be hard with your stats--your best shot at getting "teh 160k" is in NYC, so I would go more like 75-25 on your split, with the 25% in LA targeted at less prestigious firms.
Sounds like you basically have the right idea though, so good luck.
I wouldn't waste bids on SF.
- prezidentv8
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
Not like I got a job yet, but I did get 3 callbacks in the Bay Area based on good-not-great grades at Duke. So I wouldn't say quite to the point of "almost non-existent." But VERY hard.cornellbeez wrote:No, SF biglaw is almost non-existent ITE. SF offices can afford to be super selective. Top 1/3 probably isn't good enough for SF biglaw from non-HYS T-14s, including Boalt. I know people from MVP with SF biglaw, but they were all within the top quarter.paulinaporizkova wrote:is this because both cal and sls are right there?cornellbeez wrote:This sounds like good advice.Rule11 wrote:SF is out--it's the right call not to use bids on that. LA will be hard with your stats--your best shot at getting "teh 160k" is in NYC, so I would go more like 75-25 on your split, with the 25% in LA targeted at less prestigious firms.
Sounds like you basically have the right idea though, so good luck.
I wouldn't waste bids on SF.
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
prezidentv8 wrote:Not like I got a job yet, but I did get 3 callbacks in the Bay Area based on good-not-great grades at Duke. So I wouldn't say quite to the point of "almost non-existent." But VERY hard.cornellbeez wrote:
No, SF biglaw is almost non-existent ITE. SF offices can afford to be super selective. Top 1/3 probably isn't good enough for SF biglaw from non-HYS T-14s, including Boalt. I know people from MVP with SF biglaw, but they were all within the top quarter.
edit: NVM read your profile. Firms frequently call back 4-5X+ people than they give offers to, especially if there's a super small class size, like in SF.
Last edited by cornellbeez on Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- prezidentv8
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
Very average white dude with a social sciences background. I'm just saying, you can get in the door and make your case.cornellbeez wrote:Are you IP? Or URM or something? Callbacks don't really mean anything. I got way more callbacks than I did offers.prezidentv8 wrote:Not like I got a job yet, but I did get 3 callbacks in the Bay Area based on good-not-great grades at Duke. So I wouldn't say quite to the point of "almost non-existent." But VERY hard.cornellbeez wrote:
No, SF biglaw is almost non-existent ITE. SF offices can afford to be super selective. Top 1/3 probably isn't good enough for SF biglaw from non-HYS T-14s, including Boalt. I know people from MVP with SF biglaw, but they were all within the top quarter.
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
I guess, although keep in mind that at the callback-offer stage, most likely none of the hiring committee will meet you, and grades still matter. At the initial interview stage, it's possible to interview well, hit it off with an associate or a partner who is not on the hiring committee, get called back, but not really stand a decent shot at landing an offer due to other factors (resume, grades, lack of diversity etc.). The non-IP people I know who got offers were at least in the top quarter.prezidentv8 wrote:Very average white dude with a social sciences background. I'm just saying, you can get in the door and make your case.cornellbeez wrote:Are you IP? Or URM or something? Callbacks don't really mean anything. I got way more callbacks than I did offers.prezidentv8 wrote:Not like I got a job yet, but I did get 3 callbacks in the Bay Area based on good-not-great grades at Duke. So I wouldn't say quite to the point of "almost non-existent." But VERY hard.cornellbeez wrote:
No, SF biglaw is almost non-existent ITE. SF offices can afford to be super selective. Top 1/3 probably isn't good enough for SF biglaw from non-HYS T-14s, including Boalt. I know people from MVP with SF biglaw, but they were all within the top quarter.
- prezidentv8
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
Interesting. Most of what I've seen and heard has indicated that the grade cutoffs were applied prior to the callback stage. Sounds like we've had some different experiences with this.cornellbeez wrote:I guess, although keep in mind that at the callback-offer stage, most likely none of the hiring committee will meet you, and grades still matter. At the initial interview stage, it's possible to interview well, hit it off with an associate or a partner who is not on the hiring committee, get called back, but not really stand a decent shot at landing an offer due to other factors (resume, grades, lack of diversity etc.). The non-IP people I know who got offers were at least in the top quarter.prezidentv8 wrote:
Very average white dude with a social sciences background. I'm just saying, you can get in the door and make your case.
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
Only some firms have hard cut-offs, and the hiring committee doesn't have the time to review every application at the initial stage. This is why solo interviewers, especially partners, have some leeway in calling back people they get along with during the interview. (It varies by firm, but I received same-day phone calls for callbacks from interviewers immediately after they finished interviewing for the day.) Plus, I think firms are willing to expend a lot of money on callbacks, so it's not a big deal to give leeway to interviewers. Almost every firm I talked to conducted multiple callback interviews simultaneously, everyday, all day, for 1.5-2 months. I think a much more thorough analysis is completed by the hiring committee, which I never met, during the callback stage. Of course, we will never know for sure what happens unless we're on the hiring committee, but this is what I gathered.prezidentv8 wrote:Interesting. Most of what I've seen and heard has indicated that the grade cutoffs were applied prior to the callback stage. Sounds like we've had some different experiences with this.cornellbeez wrote:I guess, although keep in mind that at the callback-offer stage, most likely none of the hiring committee will meet you, and grades still matter. At the initial interview stage, it's possible to interview well, hit it off with an associate or a partner who is not on the hiring committee, get called back, but not really stand a decent shot at landing an offer due to other factors (resume, grades, lack of diversity etc.). The non-IP people I know who got offers were at least in the top quarter.prezidentv8 wrote:
Very average white dude with a social sciences background. I'm just saying, you can get in the door and make your case.
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
Applying a grade cut off AFTER a call back sounds like a 400 dollars waste of air fare and hotel.
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
Again, it depends on the firm. Also, one possibility is that there is a somewhat "soft" grade cut off for callbacks, where a really good interviewer could elude rejection, and a more stringent standard for offers imposed by the hiring committee in the context of an applicant's resume, diversity, etc.Desert Fox wrote:Applying a grade cut off AFTER a call back sounds like a 400 dollars waste of air fare and hotel.
Another explanation is that firms have a hard cutoff for callbacks, and at the offer stage,they compare you with other applicants, and your GPA is comparatively lower. SF has tiny classes, so they would only offer a few people with the highest GPA in this situation. This sounds like a reasonable explanation.
Firms spend 30k+ on each summer associate. They are probably willing to spend a comparatively minuscule 400 on each callback in order to get their pick of the crop for offers. Each summer associate costs as much as 75 callbacks worth 400 each. And if you are from a local school, callbacks cost what, 5 bucks?
- prezidentv8
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
I will say this much: the above does not describe me in any way.cornellbeez wrote:one possibility is that there is a somewhat "soft" grade cut off for callbacks, where a really good interviewer could elude rejection
Though I do get your actual point.
- Kohinoor
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Re: Is top 1/3 (w/ ties) sufficient for LA BigLaw from MVP?
I have never known a firm to be judicious in its use of $400.Desert Fox wrote:Applying a grade cut off AFTER a call back sounds like a 400 dollars waste of air fare and hotel.
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