Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

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Panama2014
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Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby Panama2014 » Sat Jan 29, 2011 9:50 pm

I know Cincinnati Law is stronger as far as a regional school (within Ohio / the immediate area) but I feel as if the co-op program at northeastern would be a better "in" as far as international law is concerned.

Though I am not a rankings slave UC Law is ranked MUCH higher than NEU which is continually in the back of my mind.

any thoughts???

MrAnon
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby MrAnon » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:12 am

These schools do not create practitioners of international law. They create practitioners of divorce law, wills trusts and estates, criminal law. If you want a sure ticket to the Hague, or merely wish to work with international clients, you need to shoot for a top 10 school.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby worldtraveler » Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:31 am

OP what exactly do you want to do?

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby D. H2Oman » Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:38 am

Panama2014 wrote:I know Cincinnati Law is stronger as far as a regional school (within Ohio / the immediate area) but I feel as if the co-op program at northeastern would be a better "in" as far as international law is concerned.

Though I am not a rankings slave UC Law is ranked MUCH higher than NEU which is continually in the back of my mind.

any thoughts???GDANE



Can't see how you could go wrong here really.

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cinephile
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby cinephile » Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:33 am

What's the difference in cost?

Panama2014
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby Panama2014 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:18 am

.
Last edited by Panama2014 on Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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cinephile
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby cinephile » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:50 pm

Neither are really any good for international law. If I were you, I'd pick Cincy because it's higher ranked, stronger within its market, and it's cheaper.

If you really wanted to do something international, you could always get a masters in law in whatever country you'd like to work in.

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Adjudicator
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby Adjudicator » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:56 pm

Let's clarify one thing before this thread goes any further. OP, what exactly do you think an "international lawyer" does and what entity employs them?

Panama2014
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby Panama2014 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:14 pm

let me clarify one thing before we digress into useless banter - I didnt post this to have people qualify my definition of "international law" as I have seen many self-entitled members engage in. Obviously the term is extremely broad and encompasses a number of different routes but as I have specified I am asking a generalized question.

If you do in fact have something useful to suggest or some level of insight on the issue at hand, I would love to hear - otherwise please save both of our time and post somewhere else.

Panama2014
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby Panama2014 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:18 pm

and btw I dont mean to sound hostile so thank you for taking the time to help - those of you who have provided opinions

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worldtraveler
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby worldtraveler » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:24 pm

Unless you actually answer what it is you actually want to do, nobody can help you. As it stands, you're asking for advice on entering a vague, virtually non-existent field. Do you want to work with refugees internationally? Work at a firm with global locations? Work for a policy or advocacy NGO? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?

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MrKappus
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby MrKappus » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:33 pm

Panama2014 wrote:let me clarify one thing before we digress into useless banter - I didnt post this to have people qualify my definition of "international law" as I have seen many self-entitled members engage in. Obviously the term is extremely broad and encompasses a number of different routes but as I have specified I am asking a generalized question.

If you do in fact have something useful to suggest or some level of insight on the issue at hand, I would love to hear - otherwise please save both of our time and post somewhere else.


You already got your answer. Neither one of those is "better" than the other, varying and vague definitions of international law aside. The chance of you getting elite PI, NGO, international tribunal, or policy-focused federal govt work from either of those schools is minuscule. The answer, then, is "whichever's cheaper."* Best of luck.

* Edit: and, also, in a region where you'd be happy living.

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mpj_3050
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby mpj_3050 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:48 pm

Forget international law. Cross Northeastern off b/c as you said it is 30k plus living expenses. Cincinnati ain't cheap either at sticker. NYLS probably comes with stipulations and Seton Hall at sticker is insanity. Either retake or go to the school that will leave you in the lowest amount of debt and is in a region you wouldn't mind living in.

Your schools are all over the place so maybe you could apply to some public schools where you can obtain residency. And about the rankings - many around here will tell you they don't matter after a certain point. What matters is how much debt you are going to take on.

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Grizz
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby Grizz » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:52 pm

Retake or don't go.

worldtraveler wrote:Unless you actually answer what it is you actually want to do, nobody can help you. As it stands, you're asking for advice on entering a vague, virtually non-existent field. Do you want to work with refugees internationally? Work at a firm with global locations? Work for a policy or advocacy NGO? Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?


Also this. "International law" is a meaningless category.

MrAnon
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby MrAnon » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:56 pm

People who do amazingly well at both of these schools have to work HARD just to find gainful employment. They work just as hard as any recent college grad looking for work. Keep that in mind before you commit to paying them 6 figures for a degree. The sad truth that neither school will ever tell you is that their graduates simply are not in demand. Both schools could disappear and their home legal markets would never know it. International law? lol.

Looking at Cincy's highlight page for international law makes me smirk. They name 6 places where their graduates have work. Out of thousands of grads and they identified 6 locations of employment worth mentioning. Then they highlight two below, neither of which requires legal training or a law degree to do the work they do. In other words, if this is the future you want, go do it now, you dont have to pay $150,000 and waste 3 years of your life to get there.

UC Alumni Careers

Some places our graduates have worked include:

* Baker & McKenzie, Switzerland
* United Nations Development Programme, Sudan
* Proskauer Rose, China
* Private Client Bank, Switzerland
* Essex University Children's Law Centre, United Kingdom
* Occidental Oil & Gas Corporation, Qatar/Pakistan

Kate Pongonis, '97. As a United States Foreign Service Officer, Pongonis is a diplomat with the U.S. Department of State. (Read more)

Taegin Stevenson, ’07. Before coming to the College of Law as an Urban Morgan Fellow, Stevenson earned her undergraduate degree in International Affairs at Florida State University, where she worked with the Director of the Center for the Advancement of Human Rights, Terry Coonan, who is also a former Morgan Fellow. During her law school years she served on the Moot Court Honor Board and as the Managing Editor of the Human Rights Quarterly. She spent summers working in Botswana as a law clerk at the High Court of Botswana and in Washington, D.C. at the Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Center for Human Rights. Since 2008 Stevenson has been the Program Coordinator for the International Justice and Litigation Programs at the Open Society Justice Initiative where she works on international criminal law and strategic litigation.

Panama2014
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby Panama2014 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:07 pm

thanks for your help

Informative
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby Informative » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:16 am

As you will see elsewhere, law schools outside of the T14 are largely regional. You should attend the law school in the region of the country you want to work.

If you want to work in Boston, go to Northeastern.
If you want to work in Cincinnati, go to Cinci.

If you don't care, then visit each school and go to the school you feel the most comfortable at.

concurrent fork
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby concurrent fork » Mon Jan 31, 2011 1:54 pm

Panama2014 wrote:I feel as if the co-op program at northeastern would be a better "in" as far as international law is concerned.

Despite the bs on their website, many of these internships are for local gov/PI positions which start around $38k after graduation if you are lucky enough to get hired. You won't be saving the world at the UN.

Informative
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby Informative » Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:40 pm

^ probably true of Cinci, which I highly doubt has any connections at the UN being a relatively unknown school in Ohio, but Northeastern does have a long track record. Actually, just a quick review of their website and you find the following, including what Northeastern graduates are doing which specifically includes "saving the world at the UN."

--LinkRemoved--

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Robespierre
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby Robespierre » Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:49 pm

If you mean stuff like international human rights law, government foreign policy work or international organizations work, neither firm has the edge. Tons of young lawyers want to work on that stuff and those who get it are heavily from HYS. If your choice is Cinci or NEU, go to whichever is cheaper (Cinci has in-state tuition), or else whichever feels more comfortable after visiting. Then market yourself and hope for a miracle.

If you mean international business transactions, or litigating over busted international business transactions, this is primarily the preserve of "Biglaw" firms. To get into Biglaw, Cinci gets the slight edge. It places OK with the megafirms in Cinci and Cleveland and is higher ranked than NEU. But it's not a huge difference.

Informative
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby Informative » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:22 pm

Reputation
Cincinnati is a school in Ohio. It has a good reputation in Cinci, and in Ohio as a whole, but its graduates suffer from being located in a state with one of the most ferociously loyal alumni groups in the country (tOSU). You'll find Cinci grads at each of the top Ohio firms (all four of them).

Northeastern is well known in two areas: Sports law and public interest/human rights. It is a decent university as a whole with a lot of money to spend. It tends to lean left politically. Alum from Northeastern are well disbursed throughout the companies in the Boston area, including greater new england. It suffers from the stigma of once being a commuter school, but you'll find graduates at each of the top Boston law firms.

Location
Cincinnati is located in a mid-sized city in Ohio. There are no "mega-firms" in Cinci, but there are two or three decent firms. None of the Ohio firms are players in the international market, but there are a number of companies in Ohio that keep them employed. The larger of the firms have small offices overseas, nothing to write home about. You aren't doing anything significant with only 12 attorneys in some obscure office in an eastern european country.

Boston has a number of international firms that actually have international operations and reputations. While a more sophisticated legal market, the Boston market is competitive with Harvard and BC (and BU) grads taking up large portions of the summer classes at large firms. With the T14 filling up most of the rest fo the class, Northeastern has some competition. If you look at the summer classes at most of the top firms, you'll usually find one or two northeastern grads, but rarely more than that.

I wouldn't take either school at sticker, but I would probably take Northeastern over Cincinnati, both because of your desire to do international work and because it would be pretty miserable to live in Ohio for three years, let alone eight-to-ten.

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Robespierre
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby Robespierre » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:30 pm

Informative wrote:Reputation
There are no "mega-firms" in Cinci,


Frost and Dinsmore each have over 400 lawyers and are in the NLJ250.

concurrent fork
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby concurrent fork » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:50 pm

Informative wrote:^ probably true of Cinci, which I highly doubt has any connections at the UN being a relatively unknown school in Ohio, but Northeastern does have a long track record. Actually, just a quick review of their website and you find the following, including what Northeastern graduates are doing which specifically includes "saving the world at the UN."

--LinkRemoved--

I think you misunderstood my post. I know what the website says, but I also know several northeastern students who had the experience I described above. The "international" experiences listed on that page are non-legal or quasi legal positions which are only open to a handful of students anyway.

Regardless, OP should not attend either school without significant scholarship money.

Informative
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Re: Cincinnati or Northeastern for international law

Postby Informative » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:43 pm

Frost and Dinsmore are not mega firms. 400 attorneys does not a megafirm make. :)




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