Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

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BlackSwan85
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Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby BlackSwan85 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:14 pm

This thread is to inform you that UChicago has apparently decided to impose a mandatory bell curve on all classes with 10 + students. Rationale (according to semi-reliable gossip): not enough Cs were given out last year and the faculty/registrar is concerned about grade inflation.

It is unclear whether this policy already came into place last quarter. Rumor has it that professors had their grades returned to them if the registrar judged them to be too high overall, but it's unclear - and probably cannot be verified - whether that actually took place.

In short, if you were worried UChicago wasn't rigorous enough - please don't be.

P.S. I reserve the right to retract the announcement in case it turns out that this information is incorrect after all. I just thought I'd give all a heads up.

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bk1
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Re: Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby bk1 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:17 pm

I guess they've heard all the 0L's saying that Chicago NEEDS MORE RIGOR!

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JusticeHarlan
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Postby JusticeHarlan » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:29 pm

Probably for the best. I mean, this way you won't get the total slackers trying to exploit loopholes in the system.

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bk1
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Postby bk1 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:30 pm

JusticeHarlan wrote:Probably for the best. I mean, this way you won't get the total slackers trying to exploit loopholes in the system.


NU may be a university in Chicago, but it isn't the University of Chicago.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby JusticeHarlan » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:32 pm

bk1 wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:Probably for the best. I mean, this way you won't get the total slackers trying to exploit loopholes in the system.


NU may be a university in Chicago, but it isn't the University of Chicago.

My point was that U Chicago is doing well by keeping the likes of DF out with such policies.

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bk1
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Re: Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby bk1 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:35 pm

JusticeHarlan wrote:My point was that U Chicago is doing well by keeping the likes of DF out with such policies.


That's because they are frowniefaces when it comes to splitters.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby JusticeHarlan » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:36 pm

bk1 wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:My point was that U Chicago is doing well by keeping the likes of DF out with such policies.


That's because they are frowniefaces when it comes to splitters.

Which, again, comes down to the aforementioned concept of rigor.

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booboo
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Re: Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby booboo » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:37 pm

There will be no slandering of the well thought out tactics of DF.

I am only upset that he publicized this information, this should have been kept on the low.

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bk1
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Postby bk1 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:38 pm

booboo wrote:There will be no slandering of the well thought out tactics of DF.

I am only upset that he publicized this information, this should have been kept on the low.


Next year's Islamic Law class will have 200 students?

BlackSwan85
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Re: Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby BlackSwan85 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:57 pm

bk1 wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:My point was that U Chicago is doing well by keeping the likes of DF out with such policies.


That's because they are frowniefaces when it comes to splitters.


And frowniefaces when it comes to too many students graduating with honors, it appears.

Really, UChicago is the only school committed to grade deflation ITE.

09042014
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Postby 09042014 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:11 pm

booboo wrote:There will be no slandering of the well thought out tactics of DF.

I am only upset that he publicized this information, this should have been kept on the low.


I waited til Add Drop.

Also, everyone at NU knows about uncurved classes. One dood is fucking pissed his class went over by one guy.

BlackSwan85
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Re: Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby BlackSwan85 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:36 pm

I'm personally enrolled in 90 people classes anyway, so I can't say the policy will affect me much. But that said, it irritates on a principle to think that this apparently came about because administration got concerned over too many high(er) grades last year. We are in the midst of an economic meltdown, and I would imagine that the faculty was being a little more forgiving in order to help out those without firm jobs be more competitive for clerkships (since clerkships are basically the only way to get back on track for a firm job once you strike out at OCI).

To flex the muscle like this, for no good reason whatsoever - we already are famous for our harsh curve and rigor - under these circumstances strikes me as irresponsible and unnecessary.

trudat15
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Re: Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby trudat15 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:29 pm

BlackSwan85 wrote:I'm personally enrolled in 90 people classes anyway, so I can't say the policy will affect me much. But that said, it irritates on a principle to think that this apparently came about because administration got concerned over too many high(er) grades last year. We are in the midst of an economic meltdown, and I would imagine that the faculty was being a little more forgiving in order to help out those without firm jobs be more competitive for clerkships (since clerkships are basically the only way to get back on track for a firm job once you strike out at OCI).

To flex the muscle like this, for no good reason whatsoever - we already are famous for our harsh curve and rigor - under these circumstances strikes me as irresponsible and unnecessary.


Pls update when you know more info. Sounds ridiculous.

BlackSwan85
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Re: Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby BlackSwan85 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:53 pm

trudat15 wrote:
BlackSwan85 wrote:I'm personally enrolled in 90 people classes anyway, so I can't say the policy will affect me much. But that said, it irritates on a principle to think that this apparently came about because administration got concerned over too many high(er) grades last year. We are in the midst of an economic meltdown, and I would imagine that the faculty was being a little more forgiving in order to help out those without firm jobs be more competitive for clerkships (since clerkships are basically the only way to get back on track for a firm job once you strike out at OCI).

To flex the muscle like this, for no good reason whatsoever - we already are famous for our harsh curve and rigor - under these circumstances strikes me as irresponsible and unnecessary.


Pls update when you know more info. Sounds ridiculous.


Since I got messages from some of my friends in Student Government in the past hour or so, I figured I'd update.

This policy is definitely being retroactively applied, meaning that all who had seminars with 10 + plus people last quarter have a 1L curve to fear. I am not one of those, thankfully, but I am mad for my friends who may well be getting below median grades on what will surely be an arbitrary curve (because, really, how can one meaningfully curve 10 people? The differentiation will have no statistical validity whatsoever.)

What's particularly annoying, though, is the underhandedness. Student Government is complaining that the officials have evaded clear answers and some of the responses to emails with which people are now inundating the Dean would seem to indicate as much (I saw some of the correspondence personally so I can confirm that).

Thank you for linking class of 2014 to this thread. While I do not claim that this ought to be the reason for people to choose not to attend UChicago, I do think that they should be aware of what's going on and factor it in when they make their final decisions (if they haven't settled on the school already). Were I a prospective student, I'd certainly want this type of information.

trudat15
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Re: Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby trudat15 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:20 pm

BlackSwan85 wrote:
Since I got messages from some of my friends in Student Government in the past hour or so, I figured I'd update.

This policy is definitely being retroactively applied, meaning that all who had seminars with 10 + plus people last quarter have a 1L curve to fear. I am not one of those, thankfully, but I am mad for my friends who may well be getting below median grades on what will surely be an arbitrary curve (because, really, how can one meaningfully curve 10 people? The differentiation will have no statistical validity whatsoever.)

What's particularly annoying, though, is the underhandedness. Student Government is complaining that the officials have evaded clear answers and some of the responses to emails with which people are now inundating the Dean would seem to indicate as much (I saw some of the correspondence personally so I can confirm that).

Thank you for linking class of 2014 to this thread. While I do not claim that this ought to be the reason for people to choose not to attend UChicago, I do think that they should be aware of what's going on and factor it in when they make their final decisions (if they haven't settled on the school already). Were I a prospective student, I'd certainly want this type of information.



Man, that really sucks. I'm kind of upset that I ED'd now. Law school is hard enough as it is, and the economy sucks. I'm going to have to take some 9 ppl seminars.

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booboo
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Re: Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby booboo » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:24 pm

Am I wrong, or does this not affect you except for the one class in the third quarter, where you have an option of what class to take?

How large is LRW?

BlackSwan85
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Re: Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby BlackSwan85 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:34 pm

booboo wrote:Am I wrong, or does this not affect you except for the one class in the third quarter, where you have an option of what class to take?

How large is LRW?


You are correct. As for your other question, LRW is curved and has about 35 people per class.

I do want to emphasize that the new policy will NOT affect 1Ls, at least not appreciably - you only have so many electives to choose from and it's unlikely that any of them would be small enough to escape the mandatory curve as it is. In fact, if you simply want to snag Biglaw at OCI, you may not be affected at all, since I don't know of (m)any firms that would revoke a person's offer due to 2L grades. That is why I say that you needn't walk away from this school for this reason alone.

But if you do strike out at OCI or want clerkship/academia (i.e. are in a position where your 2L and 3L grades will continue to matter), this may be a serious concern for you. The percentage of such students is higher than one might think and you should have this information in the back of your mind at least for that alone.

My friends are angry because the policy is essentially unnecessary and is not being publicized. (Imagine an employer scanning your transcript and wondering why you received a below median grade in a seminar, not realizing you were graded on a 1L curve.) It's really not okay in the minds of us who have been alerted to the issue and I think 0L (as well as potential transfers) should be aware of what's going on.

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booboo
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Postby booboo » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:36 pm

Ah, this makes a lot of sense. It indeed is troubling. I wonder how the administration will explain this...

trudat15
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Re: Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby trudat15 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:41 pm

BlackSwan85 wrote:
booboo wrote:Am I wrong, or does this not affect you except for the one class in the third quarter, where you have an option of what class to take?

How large is LRW?


You are correct. As for your other question, LRW is curved and has about 35 people per class.

I do want to emphasize that the new policy will NOT affect 1Ls, at least not appreciably - you only have so many electives to choose from and it's unlikely that any of them would be small enough to escape the mandatory curve as it is. In fact, if you simply want to snag Biglaw at OCI, you may not be affected at all, since I don't know of (m)any firms that would revoke a person's offer due to 2L grades. That is why I say that you needn't walk away from this school for this reason alone.

But if you do strike out at OCI or want clerkship/academia (i.e. are in a position where your 2L and 3L grades will continue to matter), this may be a serious concern for you. The percentage of such students is higher than one might think and you should have this information in the back of your mind at least for that alone.

My friends are angry because the policy is essentially unnecessary and is not being publicized. (Imagine an employer scanning your transcript and wondering why you received a below median grade in a seminar, not realizing you were graded on a 1L curve.) It's really not okay in the minds of us who have been alerted to the issue and I think 0L (as well as potential transfers) should be aware of what's going on.


THanks for clarifying. But it still sucks to be on a 1L curve when you are trying for clerkships or such. Have any of the students tried to talk to the administration about it?

BlackSwan85
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Re: Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby BlackSwan85 » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:48 pm

trudat15 wrote:
THanks for clarifying. But it still sucks to be on a 1L curve when you are trying for clerkships or such. Have any of the students tried to talk to the administration about it?


LSA is meeting with Deans Gardner and Strahilevitz in a few days. Additionally, people are inundating Dean Gardner with emails. It will surprise me none if this reaches Above The Law too. The student body isn't taking this passively, I assure you.

The question, however, is whether administration will care about our anger. LSA predicts they won't and I'm inclined to agree. The underhandedness does not bode well.

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Dany
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Postby Dany » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:04 pm

Ugh. I think I speak for all the Chi-lovers when I say I would greatly appreciate updates on this (when/if they are available)! Thanks for the heads-up.

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sojuteacher
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Postby sojuteacher » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:43 pm

eskimo wrote:Ugh. I think I speak for all the Chi-lovers when I say I would greatly appreciate updates on this (when/if they are available)! Thanks for the heads-up.


+1

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vanwinkle
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Postby vanwinkle » Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:45 pm

Temporarily stickying this. Occasionally TLS breaks news important to the law student community, and this sounds like one of those times.

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Lovely Ludwig Van
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Postby Lovely Ludwig Van » Thu Jan 27, 2011 11:15 pm

Muchos gracias. Will definitely take into consideration going forward. Maybe I can grill one of the professors on this during next Thursday's AS chat.

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JollyGreenGiant
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Re: Dear would-be UChicago 0Ls, please click on this title.

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:41 am

Wowza, I didn't know about this. Any plans to lower the honors/high honors status in light of this?




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