T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

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niederbomb
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T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby niederbomb » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:03 am

I am a Texas resident, and I expect to get into UT pretty soon (numbers well above medians).

I am from Longview, TX, near Shreveport, LA, and I'm a bit torn between staying in Texas/leaving for a T14 that places well in NYC or DC (my ideal place to work). If I were to stay in Texas as my family wishes me to do, I would want to work in Austin or San Antonio, preferring to avoid Dallas and Houston (especially Houston) at all costs.

Unfortunately, I've heard that you need ties to the area, not just ties to the state, to get a Big Law job in my two favorite Texas cities. What has everyone heard about this?

This is a pretty important decision because I applied to the T14 too late, so if I don't take Texas this cycle, I will probably have to wait until next year to apply to better schools. I'll probably attend MVP or C with over $100K in debt as opposed to Texas almost free (with the Hazlewood Act). Taking on debt is worth not having to live in Houston, though. Advice please?

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thickfreakness
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby thickfreakness » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:32 am

If you don't want to work in Houston or Dallas, going to UT over a T14 seems like a really poor decision.

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Law Sauce
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby Law Sauce » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:35 am

Texas is still a great school, and especially to go to cheaply. if you go there you will be able to find something that you like, if not at first, eventually. I mean its not t14, but it is 15! we arent talking about smu.

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thickfreakness
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby thickfreakness » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:37 am

Law Sauce wrote:Texas is still a great school, and especially to go to cheaply. if you go there you will be able to find something that you like, if not at first, eventually. I mean its not t14, but it is 15! we arent talking about smu.



Wrong. OP shouldn't go to lawl skool unless its HYS. Retake and reapply next year, OP.

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Law Sauce
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby Law Sauce » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:44 am

thickfreakness wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:Texas is still a great school, and especially to go to cheaply. if you go there you will be able to find something that you like, if not at first, eventually. I mean its not t14, but it is 15! we arent talking about smu.



Wrong. OP shouldn't go to lawl skool unless its HYS. Retake and reapply next year, OP.


o yea, sorry I forgot about that.

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emhellmer
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby emhellmer » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:08 am

Law Sauce wrote:
thickfreakness wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:Texas is still a great school, and especially to go to cheaply. if you go there you will be able to find something that you like, if not at first, eventually. I mean its not t14, but it is 15! we arent talking about smu.



Wrong. OP shouldn't go to lawl skool unless its HYS. Retake and reapply next year, OP.


o yea, sorry I forgot about that.


LOL!

Seriously OP, I live in Houston and don't blame you for wanting to avoid it at all costs. I would take UT over a T-14 for several reasons:

1. It's cheaper
2. After three years in Austin you will have ties to the city.
3. UT grads dominate every city in this state according to the Texas Bar Association.
4. If you do well at UT you will still have the option to go to New York, DC, etc. after graduation.
5. It's the highest ranked law school in a ~2,000 mile radius.

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niederbomb
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby niederbomb » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:31 pm

thickfreakness wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:Texas is still a great school, and especially to go to cheaply. if you go there you will be able to find something that you like, if not at first, eventually. I mean its not t14, but it is 15! we arent talking about smu.



Wrong. OP shouldn't go to lawl skool unless its HYS. Retake and reapply next year, OP.


I don't think retaking 17X would be a smart decision. I hit my PT average my 2nd time, I might score lower, and HYS averages anyway. But applying next year might be a good decision.
Last edited by niederbomb on Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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niederbomb
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby niederbomb » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:32 pm

emhellmer wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:
thickfreakness wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:Texas is still a great school, and especially to go to cheaply. if you go there you will be able to find something that you like, if not at first, eventually. I mean its not t14, but it is 15! we arent talking about smu.



Wrong. OP shouldn't go to lawl skool unless its HYS. Retake and reapply next year, OP.


o yea, sorry I forgot about that.


LOL!

Seriously OP, I live in Houston and don't blame you for wanting to avoid it at all costs. I would take UT over a T-14 for several reasons:

1. It's cheaper
2. After three years in Austin you will have ties to the city.
3. UT grads dominate every city in this state according to the Texas Bar Association.
4. If you do well at UT you will still have the option to go to New York, DC, etc. after graduation.
5. It's the highest ranked law school in a ~2,000 mile radius.


But don't NYC/DC firms hesitate to hire TX in-state residents who graduate from UT due to flight risk?

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BarbellDreams
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby BarbellDreams » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:37 pm

I think the 2 most important questions are:

1. Which t14s did you get into to contemplate over UT?
2. What is the difference in COA over the three years for you between those schools and UT?

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akili
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby akili » Fri Jan 21, 2011 12:43 pm

Hey Niederbomb,

I'm kind of looking at the same situation. I don't really want to be in Texas for the rest of my life, though Austin is awesome and I definitely want to avoid Houston (no offense to those that love it). I've applied late, like you and am hoping to get a couple T14 acceptances (okay, like 2) in spite of that. If I get in to Michigan, I will go there in a heartbeat because I want to end up in ...not Texas. But if I don't get in other places, UT is pretty great. In-state plus high QOL and (hopefully) good football is a decent trade off. Plus I have connections in the Austin legal world so I probably would have a job right out of school...Wait and see how you do in the T14 and then make your decision is the best advice I have. Good luck dude!

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Reedie
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby Reedie » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:56 pm

emhellmer wrote:5. It's the highest ranked law school in a ~2,000 mile radius.


Actually there are 14 higher ranked law schools within 2000 miles from Austin. The farthest is Harvard, which is still under 2000 miles away. Most are way less than 2000 miles. Not sure why I bothered to check that, but I did.

Still, if I wanted to work in Texas I'd probably go to UT.

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bk1
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby bk1 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:59 pm

niederbomb wrote:
thickfreakness wrote:
Law Sauce wrote:Texas is still a great school, and especially to go to cheaply. if you go there you will be able to find something that you like, if not at first, eventually. I mean its not t14, but it is 15! we arent talking about smu.



Wrong. OP shouldn't go to lawl skool unless its HYS. Retake and reapply next year, OP.


I don't think retaking 17X would be a smart decision. I hit my PT average my 2nd time, I might score lower, and HYS averages anyway. But applying next year might be a good decision.


Whoosh.

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Reedie
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby Reedie » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:01 pm

bk1 wrote:Whoosh.


Fortunately the LSAT reading comp contains no sarcasm.

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bk1
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby bk1 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:04 pm

Reedie wrote:
bk1 wrote:Whoosh.


Fortunately the LSAT reading comp contains no sarcasm.


I find that unfortunate.

HowdyYall
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby HowdyYall » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:12 pm

if you get into the T14, visit the campus and see where you think youd be happier. Austin does have an extremely high QOL, but you need to make sure you could actually go to law school there with all those distractions

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ihp12
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby ihp12 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:15 pm

Even if you go to UT, you are probably not gonna end up in Austin. The legal market there is fairly small. All the biglaw offices in Austin are small satellites of their huge Dallas and Houston offices. Plus the Austin legal market is saturated b/c alot of UT grads fall in love with Austin and want to stay there, even if it means taking a lower ranking job than one they could get in Houston or Dallas.

I don't know much about the San Antonio legal market, but as a general rule a UT degree is more competitive in all major Texas cities than any other schools, even schools based in those specific cities.

As far as UT vs. t-14 in texas, my guess is that UT is gonna trump many of these. But the top-6 (or so) will probably trump UT.

Why the aversion to Dallas or Houston, if you don't mind my asking?

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Bluben
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby Bluben » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:27 pm

Why all the hate on Houston? I went to undergrad at UT and i gotta say at 24 years old I would rather live in Houston than in Austin. I dont want to start a debate on Texas cities, but the only people who I know dislike Houston are those that have only been to the suburbs or grew up in the suburbs. Inside the loop, Houston is an awesome city. If you want to work in cities like DC and NYC, what draws you away from Houston especially when you would most likely be working downtown?

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akili
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby akili » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:33 pm

One word: humidity :)

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clintonius
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby clintonius » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:34 pm

HowdyYall wrote:if you get into the T14, visit the campus and see where you think youd be happier. Austin does have an extremely high QOL, but you need to make sure you could actually go to law school there with all those distractions

Also an excellent reason to strongly consider CC (and avoid NYU)

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Bluben
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby Bluben » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:37 pm

akili wrote:One word: humidity :)


Maybe I've been here too long and have acclimated well to Houston's weather, but to me the humidity in Austin is just as bad as that in Houston. I remember walking around campus at 10 pm in austin and sweating like a pig because the temperature wouldn't drop below 90 until later in the evening.

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Bluben
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby Bluben » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:39 pm

akili wrote:One word: humidity :)



And most of the buildings in downtown Houston are connected by a tunnel system that has restaurants and shops so that you dont have to walk around outside in the worst parts of the summer.

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akili
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby akili » Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:43 pm

I'm just not a fan of heat/humidity at all. That's actually my big hesitation with picking UT. The times I have been to Houston in the summer were awful. I do appreciate the underground tunnels though. I was a runner for a law firm in Austin two summers ago when we had 40+ days of 100 degrees + and that was miserable!

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Burgstaller04
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby Burgstaller04 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 7:06 pm

I posted this in another thread but it seems applicable here. A couple firms in San Antonio and the lawyers listed on their websites. St. Mary's definitely seems to do well, but I'm sure that's mostly self selection and a UT grad would get first bid over them (except that one guy from harvard. weird)

Fullbright and Jaworski. 54 lawyers in SA listed on their website
St. Mary's - 15
UT - 13
SMU - 5
Baylor/UH - 4
South Texas College of Law - 3
BYU/Texas Tech/UPenn/LSU/UVA/Notre Dame/UWisconsin/Toledo/Case Western/Harvard - 1

Jackson Walker. 44 lawyers in SA listed on their website
St. Mary's - 15
UT - 13
Baylor - 3
UH/UTennessee - 2
UC Davis/UVA/South Texas/Creighton/Tulane/Denver/OU/USC/Vandy

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niederbomb
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Re: T14 vs. UT Austin w/out Houston/Dallas

Postby niederbomb » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:27 pm

Bluben wrote:Why all the hate on Houston? I went to undergrad at UT and i gotta say at 24 years old I would rather live in Houston than in Austin. I dont want to start a debate on Texas cities, but the only people who I know dislike Houston are those that have only been to the suburbs or grew up in the suburbs.


Quality of life is awful with respect to what I value.

Heat, humidity, car culture, traffic, and crime are a turnoff. Also, I like to live in an interesting place with lots of culture. One reason I am hesitant about living in Texas at all is because I am unwilling to commute long distances every day, and I'm unwilling to live in the suburbs, so I require either a compact urban area or a city with an extensive subway system where I can read books and magazines on the way to work. I am the ultimate distracted driver, so I'll probably live longer in a non-Houston environment anyway.

If my sister moves to SA now, will that be enough of a "family connection" to get a job there from UT or T14?




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