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Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:19 pm
by Patriot1208
Veyron wrote:
Marionberry wrote:So when someone provides statistics that contradict your point, you question the validity of the stats. When asked why you question their validity, you choose to ignore the question?


The question about validity of stats has been addressed on this site ad-nauseum. Only LST has reliable stats and GULC is not an LST member. Indeed, GULC is one of the worst offenders in the T-14 when it comes to fudging the numbers.

Nlj numbers don't come from schools but from firms

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:20 pm
by Veyron
DEKOCARDS wrote:Let's be honest, this thread is more about boosting OP's clearly foundering self-confidence than it is about warning students. Everyone knows that GULC has suffered in the downturn, as has every other school. Don't worry bud, you're a special little person, at a very special school. We all think you're going to do great things with your special life.


I laugh that you all think I have some sort of agenda here. I was genuinely surprised. GULC has a ton of professors that I admire and I've always assumed that it punched above its weight.

In addition, I have friends at/who are alums of GULC that have far better legal minds than I do. I would have expected them to be OK. Knowing the intellectual quality of Georgetown's student body (well, not the posters ITT, but in general) leaves me uniquely positioned to pin the blame on the school - these kids would not be struggling as Quakers.

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:22 pm
by Aqualibrium
Patriot1208 wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Marionberry wrote:So when someone provides statistics that contradict your point, you question the validity of the stats. When asked why you question their validity, you choose to ignore the question?


The question about validity of stats has been addressed on this site ad-nauseum. Only LST has reliable stats and GULC is not an LST member. Indeed, GULC is one of the worst offenders in the T-14 when it comes to fudging the numbers.

Nlj numbers don't come from schools but from firms



Exactly.

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:24 pm
by Marionberry
Veyron wrote:
Marionberry wrote:So when someone provides statistics that contradict your point, you question the validity of the stats. When asked why you question their validity, you choose to ignore the question?


The question about validity of stats has been addressed on this site ad-nauseum. Only LST has reliable stats and GULC is not an LST member. Indeed, GULC is one of the worst offenders in the T-14 when it comes to fudging the numbers.


We're not talking about stats published by law schools, we're talking about stats published independently by the NLJ. I haven't seen any discussion about NLJ numbers being inaccurate.

Also, re: Patriot, yeah youre right in that numbers last year were probably worse, and they might not have been much better for this year's OCI crop. I just hear so much hyperbolem similar to OP, that I try to see if any of it is grounded in fact.

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:24 pm
by KMaine
Veyron wrote:I have friends at/who are alums of GULC that have far better legal minds than I do.


I would hope so, since you are a 1L.

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:24 pm
by dabears1
Veyron wrote:2Ls walking around with dead looks in their eyes, virtually EVERYONE struck out at OCI, including some very highly ranked kids. I never really bought the "GULC is the tail end of the T-14" thing but I'm reconsidering. I would chalk it up to ITE but Penn isn't anywhere near as bad (although still bad obvi).

This has been your pessimistic PSA of the day.


TTIWWP

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:28 pm
by Veyron
Marionberry wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Marionberry wrote:So when someone provides statistics that contradict your point, you question the validity of the stats. When asked why you question their validity, you choose to ignore the question?


The question about validity of stats has been addressed on this site ad-nauseum. Only LST has reliable stats and GULC is not an LST member. Indeed, GULC is one of the worst offenders in the T-14 when it comes to fudging the numbers.


We're not talking about stats published by law schools, we're talking about stats published independently by the NLJ. I haven't seen any discussion about NLJ numbers being inaccurate.

Also, re: Patriot, yeah youre right in that numbers last year were probably worse, and they might not have been much better for this year's OCI crop. I just hear so much hyperbolem similar to OP, that I try to see if any of it is grounded in fact.


Search?

Anyway, I hope you're right, that would bode well for me since Penn's numbers are also up there. Not counting on it tho.

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:32 pm
by Aqualibrium
Veyron wrote:
Marionberry wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Marionberry wrote:So when someone provides statistics that contradict your point, you question the validity of the stats. When asked why you question their validity, you choose to ignore the question?


The question about validity of stats has been addressed on this site ad-nauseum. Only LST has reliable stats and GULC is not an LST member. Indeed, GULC is one of the worst offenders in the T-14 when it comes to fudging the numbers.


We're not talking about stats published by law schools, we're talking about stats published independently by the NLJ. I haven't seen any discussion about NLJ numbers being inaccurate.

Also, re: Patriot, yeah youre right in that numbers last year were probably worse, and they might not have been much better for this year's OCI crop. I just hear so much hyperbolem similar to OP, that I try to see if any of it is grounded in fact.


Search?

Anyway, I hope you're right, that would bode well for me since Penn's numbers are also up there. Not counting on it tho.



Veyron, the NLJ numbers come straight from the firms that actually hire these people. They are as accurate as your gonna get when it comes to employment stats. The only discussion I've ever seen with regards to them being inaccurate usually centers around the fact that they don't and cant take into account the fact that certain schools tend to have more people who don't want firm work/higher clerkship placement/large city bias/etc...

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:32 pm
by Patriot1208
I've been on this site far too much and I've never seen someone try to make a legitimate argument against nlj numbers

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:35 pm
by Veyron
[/quote]

We're not talking about stats published by law schools, we're talking about stats published independently by the NLJ. I haven't seen any discussion about NLJ numbers being inaccurate.

Also, re: Patriot, yeah youre right in that numbers last year were probably worse, and they might not have been much better for this year's OCI crop. I just hear so much hyperbolem similar to OP, that I try to see if any of it is grounded in fact.[/quote]

Search?

Anyway, I hope you're right, that would bode well for me since Penn's numbers are also up there. Not counting on it tho.[/quote]


Veyron, the NLJ numbers come straight from the firms that actually hire these people. They are as accurate as your gonna get when it comes to employment stats. The only discussion I've ever seen with regards to them being inaccurate usually centers around the fact that they don't and cant take into account the fact that certain schools tend to have more people who don't want firm work/higher clerkship placement/large city bias/etc...[/quote]

Encouraging news. Well, I guess then my friends (and I) have a good shot at landing something good eventually. Still doesn't detract from the OCI pwnge which was the topic of this here thread.

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:36 pm
by Patriot1208
How can you be in law school and claim to have never seen or understand nlj numbers?

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:38 pm
by Veyron
Patriot1208 wrote:How can you be in law school and claim to have never seen or understand nlj numbers?


Buddy, I was looking at NLJ numbers when you were still doing keg-stands in the quad. I think they are a bit more complex then you would hope.

For e.g., care to take a guess about what the pay range among NLJ 250 firms is?

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:40 pm
by Marionberry
Veyron wrote: Still doesn't detract from the OCI pwnge which was the topic of this here thread.


Actually, it does, and considerably so. Not only does it show that even if things were worse this year than they were for the class of 2009 (which is up for debate), it's unlikely that "everyone struck out at OCI". Also, your apparent ignorance of NLJ statistics as demonstrated in this thread doesn't help your credibility. Lastly, if your friends are anything like you I wouldn't be surprised if they got passed up.

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 3:44 pm
by Patriot1208
Veyron wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:How can you be in law school and claim to have never seen or understand nlj numbers?


Buddy, I was looking at NLJ numbers when you were still doing keg-stands in the quad. I think they are a bit more complex then you would hope.

For e.g., care to take a guess about what the pay range among NLJ 250 firms is?

I did a keg stand saturday night so that is believable. And sure I understand that the nlj isn't all biglaw but the vast majority of new people hired in the nlj come from big law firms

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:25 pm
by Blindmelon
Veyron wrote:2Ls walking around with dead looks in their eyes, virtually EVERYONE struck out at OCI, including some very highly ranked kids. I never really bought the "GULC is the tail end of the T-14" thing but I'm reconsidering. I would chalk it up to ITE but Penn isn't anywhere near as bad (although still bad obvi).

This has been your pessimistic PSA of the day.


ITT Penn troll trolls for Penn. Go Lions!

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:46 pm
by westbayguy
FYI

I know it wasn't the real direction for this thread, but just to clear up some misinformation, the law school escort on West Wing was patterned on a STANFORD student, not GW or GULC - Go Cardinal!

http://abovethelaw.com/2006/09/the-stanford-law-escort-and-she-lived-happily-ever-after/

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:54 pm
by concurrent fork
Blindmelon wrote:ITT Penn troll trolls for Penn.

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:07 pm
by Aqualibrium
westbayguy wrote:FYI

I know it wasn't the real direction for this thread, but just to clear up some misinformation, the law school escort on West Wing was patterned on a STANFORD student, not GW or GULC - Go Cardinal!

http://abovethelaw.com/2006/09/the-stanford-law-escort-and-she-lived-happily-ever-after/



On the show, she went to GW. FYI.

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:41 pm
by Veyron
Marionberry wrote:
Veyron wrote: Still doesn't detract from the OCI pwnge which was the topic of this here thread.


Actually, it does, and considerably so. Not only does it show that even if things were worse this year than they were for the class of 2009 (which is up for debate), it's unlikely that "everyone struck out at OCI". Also, your apparent ignorance of NLJ statistics as demonstrated in this thread doesn't help your credibility. Lastly, if your friends are anything like you I wouldn't be surprised if they got passed up.


You do know that only a fraction of NLJ 250 firms do OCI at most schools? Just checking.

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:47 pm
by 09042014
Patriot1208 wrote:I've been on this site far too much and I've never seen someone try to make a legitimate argument against nlj numbers


There are good arguments on why not to take them as a way to judge schools against each other, but the data itself seems rock solid.

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:50 pm
by Marionberry
Veyron wrote:
Marionberry wrote:
Veyron wrote: Still doesn't detract from the OCI pwnge which was the topic of this here thread.


Actually, it does, and considerably so. Not only does it show that even if things were worse this year than they were for the class of 2009 (which is up for debate), it's unlikely that "everyone struck out at OCI". Also, your apparent ignorance of NLJ statistics as demonstrated in this thread doesn't help your credibility. Lastly, if your friends are anything like you I wouldn't be surprised if they got passed up.


You do know that only a fraction of NLJ 250 firms do OCI at most schools? Just checking.


And what is the relevance of this fact in using a school's NLJ250 placement as an indicator of firm hiring prospects?

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:29 pm
by Veyron
Marionberry wrote:
Veyron wrote:
Marionberry wrote:
Veyron wrote: Still doesn't detract from the OCI pwnge which was the topic of this here thread.


Actually, it does, and considerably so. Not only does it show that even if things were worse this year than they were for the class of 2009 (which is up for debate), it's unlikely that "everyone struck out at OCI". Also, your apparent ignorance of NLJ statistics as demonstrated in this thread doesn't help your credibility. Lastly, if your friends are anything like you I wouldn't be surprised if they got passed up.


You do know that only a fraction of NLJ 250 firms do OCI at most schools? Just checking.


And what is the relevance of this fact in using a school's NLJ250 placement as an indicator of firm hiring prospects?


It has little relevance overall. However, I was discussing the OCI results. Even if plenty of GULC kids eventually get firm jobs some other way, OCI could still be a bloodbath.

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:33 pm
by bigkahuna2020
Maybe there is some selection bias, like the only people who would be your friends are elitist douchebags who think they are entitled to the perfect life on a silver platter, and hence fail at life?

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:36 pm
by westbayguy
Aqualibrium wrote:westbayguy wrote:
FYI

I know it wasn't the real direction for this thread, but just to clear up some misinformation, the law school escort on West Wing was patterned on a STANFORD student, not GW or GULC - Go Cardinal!

http://abovethelaw.com/2006/09/the-stan ... ver-after/



On the show, she went to GW. FYI.


True, but I figured that if this (escorts in law school) was a factor in your choosing a school- you should know which school you REALLY want to attend!

Re: Just visited some friends at GULC

Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:18 pm
by Veyron
bigkahuna2020 wrote:Maybe there is some selection bias, like the only people who would be your friends are elitist douchebags who think they are entitled to the perfect life on a silver platter, and hence fail at life?


This has been discussed above. Basically, you might very well be correct that my friends in general are "elitist douchbags," as you put it. However, my friends at non GULC T-14s have tended to do quite well so I doubt that is the issue.