All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

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JPrezy87
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby JPrezy87 » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:54 pm

kublaikahn wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:To answer a previous question, if I start off at $40k to $60k, which I would expect to make, I would be comfortable with those numbers as my total debt, which it will be.



Okay, Question 2. Does the looming debt (and stips on schollies for that matter) push one to better performance?

My answer- Hell yes it does.


yea being broke is a great incentive :)

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby FeelTheHeat » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:17 pm

kublaikahn wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:To answer a previous question, if I start off at $40k to $60k, which I would expect to make, I would be comfortable with those numbers as my total debt, which it will be.



Okay, Question 2. Does the looming debt (and stips on schollies for that matter) push one to better performance?

My answer- Hell yes it does.


I think it would make me be more of an asshole to my classmates if I was competing with them to keep the money on top of the curve rather than affect my performance.

kublaikahn
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby kublaikahn » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:11 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:
kublaikahn wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:To answer a previous question, if I start off at $40k to $60k, which I would expect to make, I would be comfortable with those numbers as my total debt, which it will be.



Okay, Question 2. Does the looming debt (and stips on schollies for that matter) push one to better performance?

My answer- Hell yes it does.


I think it would make me be more of an asshole to my classmates if I was competing with them to keep the money on top of the curve rather than affect my performance.


Is LS cutthroat? :wink: That's wierd bc all these PS's seem to be about saving the world.

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northwood
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby northwood » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:15 pm

in order to save the world you have to get rid of the harm doers..

best way to learn how to do that is assume the person sitting in class next to you wants to go to law school as a stepping stone to world domination ( and submission to their evil desires), and the best way to prevent that is to get them to graduate at the bottom of hte class.... :lol:

crallen
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby crallen » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:32 pm

Just my .02 cents...

I'm going because small town family law interests me... I don't have a desire to do big law. I have zero debt from undergrad thanks to an Army scholarship. I am trying to do JAG for the Army, but even if I don't I still plan on practicing in a small community (Less than 10,000) after my four years are up. I still have plenty of my college fund available thanks to the Army, so my debt will be below 30k after the fact. For me, the poor job prospects aren't that concerning to me because of my Army committment.

LoyalRebel
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby LoyalRebel » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:28 am

I am going to law school so I can obtain a JD and be licensed to practice law. I fully anticipate being very successful because I am intelligent, very hard working, and I know how to make it on my own. Just because I probably won't be hired by some mega firm in a highrise in New York doesn't mean I can't be successful. I have confidence in my ability and I don't 200k in loans to tell me I can do this.

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Veyron
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby Veyron » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:38 am

kublaikahn wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:
kublaikahn wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:To answer a previous question, if I start off at $40k to $60k, which I would expect to make, I would be comfortable with those numbers as my total debt, which it will be.



Okay, Question 2. Does the looming debt (and stips on schollies for that matter) push one to better performance?

My answer- Hell yes it does.


I think it would make me be more of an asshole to my classmates if I was competing with them to keep the money on top of the curve rather than affect my performance.


Is LS cutthroat? :wink: That's wierd bc all these PS's seem to be about saving the world.


The strange thing about law school is how NON-cutthroat it is, I can't think of any other forum where people whose very futures depend on a head-to-head competition are so civil to their opponents. You would think that sabotage would be the order of the day, but it just doesn't seem to work that way. Its almost like people are intent on disproving the prisoner's dilemma.

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beachbum
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby beachbum » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:01 am

Veyron wrote:The strange thing about law school is how NON-cutthroat it is, I can't think of any other forum where people whose very futures depend on a head-to-head competition are so civil to their opponents. You would think that sabotage would be the order of the day, but it just doesn't seem to work that way. Its almost like people are intent on disproving the prisoner's dilemma.


I'm gonna e-mail a virus to the listserv during finals week. :)

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romothesavior
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:02 am

LoyalRebel wrote:I am going to law school so I can obtain a JD and be licensed to practice law. I fully anticipate being very successful because I am intelligent, very hard working, and I know how to make it on my own. Just because I probably won't be hired by some mega firm in a highrise in New York doesn't mean I can't be successful. I have confidence in my ability and I don't 200k in loans to tell me I can do this.

I want so badly to believe you are just trollin us (and you probably are), but I know there are tons of naive 0Ls out there who think this way, so there is a good chance you are real.

Good luck, and may god have mercy on your soul. You're gonna need it with 200k in loans at your TTT.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby FeelTheHeat » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:05 am

romothesavior wrote:
LoyalRebel wrote:I am going to law school so I can obtain a JD and be licensed to practice law. I fully anticipate being very successful because I am intelligent, very hard working, and I know how to make it on my own. Just because I probably won't be hired by some mega firm in a highrise in New York doesn't mean I can't be successful. I have confidence in my ability and I don't 200k in loans to tell me I can do this.

I want so badly to believe you are just trollin us (and you probably are), but I know there are tons of naive 0Ls out there who think this way, so there is a good chance you are real.

Good luck, and may god have mercy on your soul. You're gonna need it with 200k in loans at your TTT.


Holy shit.

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Veyron
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby Veyron » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:07 am

beachbum wrote:
Veyron wrote:The strange thing about law school is how NON-cutthroat it is, I can't think of any other forum where people whose very futures depend on a head-to-head competition are so civil to their opponents. You would think that sabotage would be the order of the day, but it just doesn't seem to work that way. Its almost like people are intent on disproving the prisoner's dilemma.


I'm gonna e-mail a virus to the listserv during finals week. :)


Don't make me wish I had gone to Duke now.

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JazzOne
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby JazzOne » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:17 am

Veyron wrote:The strange thing about law school is how NON-cutthroat it is, I can't think of any other forum where people whose very futures depend on a head-to-head competition are so civil to their opponents. You would think that sabotage would be the order of the day, but it just doesn't seem to work that way. Its almost like people are intent on disproving the prisoner's dilemma.

+1

One of my classmates forgot to bring an outline to a final exam, and she panicked when she realized that she didn't have it. She also didn't have any money in her student account to print off a copy real quick. Several of our classmates offered to print the outline for her (at their own expense) so she wouldn't bomb the final. LS is competitive but not vicious. That is surprising when there is so much at stake.

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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby Nogameisfair » Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:55 am

JazzOne wrote:
Veyron wrote:The strange thing about law school is how NON-cutthroat it is, I can't think of any other forum where people whose very futures depend on a head-to-head competition are so civil to their opponents. You would think that sabotage would be the order of the day, but it just doesn't seem to work that way. Its almost like people are intent on disproving the prisoner's dilemma.

+1

One of my classmates forgot to bring an outline to a final exam, and she panicked when she realized that she didn't have it. She also didn't have any money in her student account to print off a copy real quick. Several of our classmates offered to print the outline for her (at their own expense) so she wouldn't bomb the final. LS is competitive but not vicious. That is surprising when there is so much at stake.


I don't find it that surprising. Part of law school is building relationships with people who will be able to help you in the future. Sure vicious competition might make sense in a one time game, but repeat play makes cooperation make sense in most instances. That said, I've seen some pretty scary shit during OCIs.

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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby typ3 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:16 am

I have quite a few T-14's that I'm in at a few with $ and in at CC.
I wont be attending any of them and will opt for a Top40 school with scholarship $.
I would rather go somewhere that I somewhat enjoy for 3 years rather than deal with people whose biggest accomplishment up to that point is merely getting in to a top 14 school. (see UVA & Georgetown).

I am a 4th generation lawyer and there are 7 other lawyers within my direct family, including my sibling (which I'm sure is not normal by any means considering they are on both of my parents sides and all this does is make holiday family gatherings unbearable as it's an assembly of the biggest tools you can think of).

Thus, I don't have to hustle for my post graduation employment, I've been groomed for it for years. I simply need to get in and get out. (that's what she said).

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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby Skyhook » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:28 am

Veyron wrote: Its almost like people are intent on disproving the prisoner's dilemma.


Nogameisfair wrote:Sure vicious competition might make sense in a one time game, but repeat play makes cooperation make sense in most instances.


Iterated prisoner's dilemma - sure you get rogue players, but with tit-for-tat reprisals they suffer.

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JPrezy87
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby JPrezy87 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:33 am

romothesavior wrote:
LoyalRebel wrote:I am going to law school so I can obtain a JD and be licensed to practice law. I fully anticipate being very successful because I am intelligent, very hard working, and I know how to make it on my own. Just because I probably won't be hired by some mega firm in a highrise in New York doesn't mean I can't be successful. I have confidence in my ability and I don't 200k in loans to tell me I can do this.

I want so badly to believe you are just trollin us (and you probably are), but I know there are tons of naive 0Ls out there who think this way, so there is a good chance you are real.

Good luck, and may god have mercy on your soul. You're gonna need it with 200k in loans at your TTT.



why does he have to be a troll? and why does he have to be going to a TTT instead of a Top 50 or 100? Can't a guy have a genuine desire to go mid or petite law?

In other words...why do you have to be a such a douche? 8)

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Patriot1208
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby Patriot1208 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:01 pm

JPrezy87 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
LoyalRebel wrote:I am going to law school so I can obtain a JD and be licensed to practice law. I fully anticipate being very successful because I am intelligent, very hard working, and I know how to make it on my own. Just because I probably won't be hired by some mega firm in a highrise in New York doesn't mean I can't be successful. I have confidence in my ability and I don't 200k in loans to tell me I can do this.

I want so badly to believe you are just trollin us (and you probably are), but I know there are tons of naive 0Ls out there who think this way, so there is a good chance you are real.

Good luck, and may god have mercy on your soul. You're gonna need it with 200k in loans at your TTT.



why does he have to be a troll? and why does he have to be going to a TTT instead of a Top 50 or 100? Can't a guy have a genuine desire to go mid or petite law?

In other words...why do you have to be a such a douche? 8)


It's fine if he has a genuine desire for small family law. Other people in this thread have expressed that same opinion and no one has jumped on them. The difference is that this guy is telling us that because he is smart, he can go to a tier 2 or TTT, work in small law, and be succesful enough to easily pay off 200k in loans. Paying off 200k in loans, in small law, is almost impossible to do. It's just the lack of rational, economic thinkg that is disconcerting about that post.

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smittelman6
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby smittelman6 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:13 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:It's fine if he has a genuine desire for small family law. Other people in this thread have expressed that same opinion and no one has jumped on them. The difference is that this guy is telling us that because he is smart, he can go to a tier 2 or TTT, work in small law, and be succesful enough to easily pay off 200k in loans. Paying off 200k in loans, in small law, is almost impossible to do. It's just the lack of rational, economic thinkg that is disconcerting about that post.


Maybe there's a reason that no one's mentioned this, but isn't it possible to just, taking advantage of IBR (or in many cases PSLF), pay the minimum amount for 25 years? The rest of his debt would be forgiven (as I'm sure he wouldn't have finished paying it off before that), and I don't think the payments on that would be terrible..


EDIT: sorry, this is only for government loans. so now i'm curious what percent of that 200k would be government and what percent would be private...

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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:20 pm

smittelman6 wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:It's fine if he has a genuine desire for small family law. Other people in this thread have expressed that same opinion and no one has jumped on them. The difference is that this guy is telling us that because he is smart, he can go to a tier 2 or TTT, work in small law, and be succesful enough to easily pay off 200k in loans. Paying off 200k in loans, in small law, is almost impossible to do. It's just the lack of rational, economic thinkg that is disconcerting about that post.


Maybe there's a reason that no one's mentioned this, but isn't it possible to just, taking advantage of IBR (or in many cases PSLF), pay the minimum amount for 25 years? The rest of his debt would be forgiven (as I'm sure he wouldn't have finished paying it off before that), and I don't think the payments on that would be terrible..


EDIT: sorry, this is only for government loans. so now i'm curious what percent of that 200k would be government and what percent would be private...

He's not planning on doing PI, so he wouldnt get IBR, correcT?

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rman1201
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby rman1201 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:22 pm

Nicholasnickynic wrote:
smittelman6 wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:It's fine if he has a genuine desire for small family law. Other people in this thread have expressed that same opinion and no one has jumped on them. The difference is that this guy is telling us that because he is smart, he can go to a tier 2 or TTT, work in small law, and be succesful enough to easily pay off 200k in loans. Paying off 200k in loans, in small law, is almost impossible to do. It's just the lack of rational, economic thinkg that is disconcerting about that post.


Maybe there's a reason that no one's mentioned this, but isn't it possible to just, taking advantage of IBR (or in many cases PSLF), pay the minimum amount for 25 years? The rest of his debt would be forgiven (as I'm sure he wouldn't have finished paying it off before that), and I don't think the payments on that would be terrible..


EDIT: sorry, this is only for government loans. so now i'm curious what percent of that 200k would be government and what percent would be private...

He's not planning on doing PI, so he wouldnt get IBR, correcT?


Theres a private IBR, it's just forgiven after 25 years rather than the 10 for PI.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:22 pm

rman1201 wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:
smittelman6 wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:It's fine if he has a genuine desire for small family law. Other people in this thread have expressed that same opinion and no one has jumped on them. The difference is that this guy is telling us that because he is smart, he can go to a tier 2 or TTT, work in small law, and be succesful enough to easily pay off 200k in loans. Paying off 200k in loans, in small law, is almost impossible to do. It's just the lack of rational, economic thinkg that is disconcerting about that post.


Maybe there's a reason that no one's mentioned this, but isn't it possible to just, taking advantage of IBR (or in many cases PSLF), pay the minimum amount for 25 years? The rest of his debt would be forgiven (as I'm sure he wouldn't have finished paying it off before that), and I don't think the payments on that would be terrible..


EDIT: sorry, this is only for government loans. so now i'm curious what percent of that 200k would be government and what percent would be private...

He's not planning on doing PI, so he wouldnt get IBR, correcT?


Theres a private IBR, it's just forgiven after 25 years rather than the 10 for PI.


O.o sweet

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Patriot1208
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby Patriot1208 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:26 pm

rman1201 wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:
smittelman6 wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:It's fine if he has a genuine desire for small family law. Other people in this thread have expressed that same opinion and no one has jumped on them. The difference is that this guy is telling us that because he is smart, he can go to a tier 2 or TTT, work in small law, and be succesful enough to easily pay off 200k in loans. Paying off 200k in loans, in small law, is almost impossible to do. It's just the lack of rational, economic thinkg that is disconcerting about that post.


Maybe there's a reason that no one's mentioned this, but isn't it possible to just, taking advantage of IBR (or in many cases PSLF), pay the minimum amount for 25 years? The rest of his debt would be forgiven (as I'm sure he wouldn't have finished paying it off before that), and I don't think the payments on that would be terrible..


EDIT: sorry, this is only for government loans. so now i'm curious what percent of that 200k would be government and what percent would be private...

He's not planning on doing PI, so he wouldnt get IBR, correcT?


Theres a private IBR, it's just forgiven after 25 years rather than the 10 for PI.


Ya, but government loans max out at a fairly low number, right? Meaning, a majority of that 200k is not going to be subject to ibr.

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rman1201
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby rman1201 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:27 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
rman1201 wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:
smittelman6 wrote:He's not planning on doing PI, so he wouldnt get IBR, correcT?


Theres a private IBR, it's just forgiven after 25 years rather than the 10 for PI.


Ya, but government loans max out at a fairly low number, right? Meaning, a majority of that 200k is not going to be subject to ibr.


20.5k Stafford, but unlimited GradPlus as long as you don't have a Foreclosure/Bankruptcy/Default on Fed Loan on your record.

(The interest rate is just a tad higher on everything after the initial $20,500, and the interest isn't subsidized while you're in school. It's still federally backed though and you can take advantage of Federal Repayment options)

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JPrezy87
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby JPrezy87 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:28 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
JPrezy87 wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
LoyalRebel wrote:I am going to law school so I can obtain a JD and be licensed to practice law. I fully anticipate being very successful because I am intelligent, very hard working, and I know how to make it on my own. Just because I probably won't be hired by some mega firm in a highrise in New York doesn't mean I can't be successful. I have confidence in my ability and I don't 200k in loans to tell me I can do this.

I want so badly to believe you are just trollin us (and you probably are), but I know there are tons of naive 0Ls out there who think this way, so there is a good chance you are real.

Good luck, and may god have mercy on your soul. You're gonna need it with 200k in loans at your TTT.



why does he have to be a troll? and why does he have to be going to a TTT instead of a Top 50 or 100? Can't a guy have a genuine desire to go mid or petite law?

In other words...why do you have to be a such a douche? 8)


It's fine if he has a genuine desire for small family law. Other people in this thread have expressed that same opinion and no one has jumped on them. The difference is that this guy is telling us that because he is smart, he can go to a tier 2 or TTT, work in small law, and be succesful enough to easily pay off 200k in loans. Paying off 200k in loans, in small law, is almost impossible to do. It's just the lack of rational, economic thinkg that is disconcerting about that post.



and where does he say he plans on going to a TTT?! And where did he say he's going to take out 200 k in loans? he said DOESN'T NEED to take out 200 k (the typical cost of an elite, tier 1 school) in loans to be successful as an attorney, which means he's probably going to go to a cheap but decent in state school instead of harvard or yale :)
Last edited by JPrezy87 on Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The Gentleman
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Re: All non tier 1 people, why are you going to law school?

Postby The Gentleman » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:30 pm

FYI, there's a tax bomb at the end of the 25 year IBR program. The amount of debt that's forgiven gets tacked onto your federal (and probably state/local, but not sure) taxes. Do you really wanna pay the taxes on a 200k gift?




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