Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

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rundoxierun
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby rundoxierun » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:23 pm

Mr. T wrote:Silver / gold is safer than the dollar at this point. I have done extensive research on this and the collapse of the dollar is happening as we speak. Throughout history gold/silver help the smart trade/barter/pay during these early times.

Your dollars are a "promise to pay" and are not worth shit (kinda like a lawyer without work) because it has no tangable value. Whereas gold/silver have always held their value through all kinds of hardships.


Oh god.. here we go.. credibility -1000

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kwais
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby kwais » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:24 pm

whether there are dangers in going to law school is a different issue from the fact that the people who wrote this article are retarded.

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pokerlaw
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby pokerlaw » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:25 pm

Mr. T wrote:Silver / gold is safer than the dollar at this point. I have done extensive research on this and the collapse of the dollar is happening as we speak. Throughout history gold/silver helped the smart trade/barter/pay during these tough times.

Your dollars are a "promise to pay" and are not worth shit (kinda like a lawyer without work) because it has no tangable value. Whereas gold/silver have always held their value through all kinds of hardships.

By the way, I bought gold in 2008 for 600/oz....its at nearly 1200/oz today and I made enough to pay for law school.



Yuan will be the new reserve currency in 20 years!!!

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:25 pm

They may be retarded but we can't discount the validity of the numbers mentioned.

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General Tso
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby General Tso » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:27 pm

total outstanding student loan debt = $556b in 2009
total outstanding home mortgage debt = $14.6 trillion in 2009

http://www.cnbc.com/id/30438711/America ... bt?slide=7
http://www.cnbc.com/id/30438711/America ... t?slide=10

student loans are more of a moral issue than one that will really wreak havoc on the economy the way the mortgage crisis did. which is a bad thing because we will probably get less attention than we deserve as a result.

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lisjjen
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby lisjjen » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:28 pm

Forbes actually had a similiar article warning against a "higher education bubble."

I know law school is a huge risk. I am going into it with my eyes open, but reading things like this is not functional to that end. Maybe someone that's about to sign on to $180k at a tier4 might need a strong dose of reality, but from what I've seen, the majority of people on this site have better prospects than that.

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:29 pm

pokerlaw wrote:
Mr. T wrote:Silver / gold is safer than the dollar at this point. I have done extensive research on this and the collapse of the dollar is happening as we speak. Throughout history gold/silver helped the smart trade/barter/pay during these tough times.

Your dollars are a "promise to pay" and are not worth shit (kinda like a lawyer without work) because it has no tangable value. Whereas gold/silver have always held their value through all kinds of hardships.

By the way, I bought gold in 2008 for 600/oz....its at nearly 1200/oz today and I made enough to pay for law school.



Yuan will be the new reserve currency in 20 years!!!



No, it will be the Yen and we will be spending our Amero's


http://bankling.com/2009/the-amero-curr ... -research/

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AreJay711
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:29 pm

Mr. T wrote:General, I think the "We have all lost" statement is true. But, are any of those professions asking its people to take on an additional 100,000 in debt before earning a dime? I mean, a farmer can work the land....what can a lawyer do when its all said and done - he can't even get prepared to take the bar exam during law school and must teach himself (for an additional year - more debt) before he can attempt it.

This is a cautionary piece and nothing more. You can defend wanting to go to law school and becoming a lawyer all you want.

Truth be told, our economy sucks, the dollar is on its way down, the unsavory fiscal practices of this country have us dangling on edge and college / graduate school debts could be the next bubble to burst.

My family discouraged me to go to college for a lot of those reasons. The fact is that a bachelors from a non-elite school isn't going to get you get a whole lot more money right away -- any benefit will be a few years away. The thing is though over a lifetime it does pay off, just ask the 65 year old guy still braking his back on a roof in below freezing temps.

But... farming is way worse than law. Land ain't cheap and the investment has much longer time horizons before someone is in the black (100,000 won't buy you much income as a farmer).

I think the problem is these days is that people expect above average income without above average risk and work. Yeah, getting a law degree is risky, even at the top schools, but if it was easy and without risk, everyone would do it. That isn't to say a law degree is a great investment but most people will probably come out ahead in the long run.

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General Tso
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby General Tso » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:30 pm

dude gold was $500 an ounce in 2006, today it is over $1400 an ounce. it is something that is desirable only in times of financial turmoil. It has no capacity to generate revenue or dividends the way a rental house or a stock can. its value has been driven up by a bunch of quacks like Glenn Beck and as soon as the world economy smooths out, gold is going to be worth $500/oz. once again.

if you want a safe investment and have a down payment, buy a house. that both appreciates in value AND generates rents. and prices and rates are pretty damn low in most parts of the country.

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:32 pm

General Tso wrote:total outstanding student loan debt = $556b in 2009
total outstanding home mortgage debt = $14.6 trillion in 2009

http://www.cnbc.com/id/30438711/America ... bt?slide=7
http://www.cnbc.com/id/30438711/America ... t?slide=10

student loans are more of a moral issue than one that will really wreak havoc on the economy the way the mortgage crisis did. which is a bad thing because we will probably get less attention than we deserve as a result.



But you cant declare bankruptcy on student loans so stating that this might be the next big problem (since so many carry debt of this type) is not far fetched. You either pay it, default on a fed loan in which case you are shit in the world of credit, or die.

What's sad is you try to trump my BILLION with your TRILLION and think that's a good point. So typical in this country! :(
Last edited by Mr. T on Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

plum
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby plum » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:33 pm

tkgrrett wrote:You dont have to be very smart to get into a top 100 school.

just because someone is "smart" doesn't mean they're not immature, irresponsible, or impulsive. we live in a culture that routinely normalizes debt and people don't think twice about it.

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:35 pm

I missed the surge to 1400 - but bought late in 2006 for right around 600/oz.

I agree - a home is a good investment if you 1) Dont buy over your head and 2) Have the means to pay your payments........something many American's did not do in the recent past.
Last edited by Mr. T on Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:37 pm

lisjjen wrote:Forbes actually had a similiar article warning against a "higher education bubble."

I know law school is a huge risk. I am going into it with my eyes open, but reading things like this is not functional to that end. Maybe someone that's about to sign on to $180k at a tier4 might need a strong dose of reality, but from what I've seen, the majority of people on this site have better prospects than that.



IM SURE THE NAY-SAYERS WILL CONDEMN FORBES NOW AS WELL 8)

rose711
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby rose711 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:39 pm

I stopped reading after this sentence:

The artificially high incomes of lawyers are made possible entirely by inflation, which steals the wealth from hard working goods producing middle-class Americans and transfers it to those who add no real value to society.


I am a little tired of the idea that lawyers add no real value to society.

But, if the basic idea is that it is at least as foolish to take out six-figure loans to pay for an education that has no guarantee of resulting in a job allowing you to pay it back, as it is to borrow a sub-prime mortgage for a house you can never pay for. I see so many people who think that if you go to an Ivy League School for undergrad you can easily afford to repay over $100,000 in loans and the same applies to Law School. If this article helps more people realize that borrowing a fortune you can't repay will set you back for life, then I guess it is a good thing.

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lisjjen
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby lisjjen » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:39 pm

AreJay711 wrote:
Mr. T wrote:General, I think the "We have all lost" statement is true. But, are any of those professions asking its people to take on an additional 100,000 in debt before earning a dime? I mean, a farmer can work the land....what can a lawyer do when its all said and done - he can't even get prepared to take the bar exam during law school and must teach himself (for an additional year - more debt) before he can attempt it.

This is a cautionary piece and nothing more. You can defend wanting to go to law school and becoming a lawyer all you want.

Truth be told, our economy sucks, the dollar is on its way down, the unsavory fiscal practices of this country have us dangling on edge and college / graduate school debts could be the next bubble to burst.

My family discouraged me to go to college for a lot of those reasons. The fact is that a bachelors from a non-elite school isn't going to get you get a whole lot more money right away -- any benefit will be a few years away. The thing is though over a lifetime it does pay off, just ask the 65 year old guy still braking his back on a roof in below freezing temps.

But... farming is way worse than law. Land ain't cheap and the investment has much longer time horizons before someone is in the black (100,000 won't buy you much income as a farmer).

I think the problem is these days is that people expect above average income without above average risk and work. Yeah, getting a law degree is risky, even at the top schools, but if it was easy and without risk, everyone would do it. That isn't to say a law degree is a great investment but most people will probably come out ahead in the long run.



This. A lot of this. I have delivered pizzas to get through UG as a second job, and one of the guys I work with is 75 years old. He'll never be able to retire because he's been delivering for 25 years, part time. Even if he went to the lousy state school in town, he could still have gotten a business degree and maybe been working in management instead.

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:40 pm

Think of the free pizza..... :)

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:42 pm

rose711 wrote:I stopped reading after this sentence:

The artificially high incomes of lawyers are made possible entirely by inflation, which steals the wealth from hard working goods producing middle-class Americans and transfers it to those who add no real value to society.


I am a little tired of the idea that lawyers add no real value to society.

But, if the basic idea is that it is at least as foolish to take out six-figure loans to pay for an education that has no guarantee of resulting in a job allowing you to pay it back, as it is to borrow a sub-prime mortgage for a house you can never pay for. I see so many people who think that if you go to an Ivy League School for undergrad you can easily afford to repay over $100,000 in loans and the same applies to Law School. If this article helps more people realize that borrowing a fortune you can't repay will set you back for life, then I guess it is a good thing.



WORD! My only reason for posting it, I might add.

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General Tso
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby General Tso » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:43 pm

Mr. T wrote:
IM SURE THE NAY-SAYERS WILL CONDEMN FORBES NOW AS WELL 8)


Dude nobody is refuting the idea that student loans are a huge problem or that law school is way too expensive or anything like that. You can find a much better article on this topic than the one you originally posted. Everything about that guy screams "quack".

Or maybe you ARE that guy.... :wink:

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:47 pm

No, not that guy. But I am the guy who is sure as shit gonna post another article like this (after reading the NY Times article yesterday) in the hopes of sparking the brain of the person who has not thought of this.

I will not be taking out loans - but for those that are - heed the warning(s)

As a side note, some of the video's on the inflation.us site are good -and - you get to see "the guy" :)
Last edited by Mr. T on Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mpj_3050
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby mpj_3050 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:02 pm

General Tso is correct, definitely sounds like a quack. WTF else are many of us going to do? Plumber, electrician, etc.? If you go to law school and manage expectations vs. debt it can (hopefully) work for you in the long run. My current job is a manual labor one and believe me that shit sucks. After working 60 hours week after week in the heat and cold, all the while being watched like a hawk for production rates, I can tell you that I will gladly take on a little debt to go to law school, something I want to do (and yes I will be expected meet benchmarks as an attorney but at least it isn't backbreaking work.) Hell, I have a TTT that gave me some money which makes tuition 3k a year and with living expenses minus what I have saved I could get out with 30k or under debt. Law school is only a "scam" to the people who take out massive loans and don't weigh them according to prospects, or thing a job will be handed to them.. Hell, I'm from Ohio and know someone paying sticker at Capital Law School at 33k tuition - this is the kind of crazy shit that has to stop. Kid is going to be 130k plus in debt at graduation!

Don't be like the TJ Law guy in the NY Times article and things could turn out okay for you. And BTW, what kind of dumb ass goes to Thomas Jefferson Law and moves back east?

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lisjjen
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby lisjjen » Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:07 pm

mpj_3050 wrote:General Tso is correct, definitely sounds like a quack. WTF else are many of us going to do? Plumber, electrician, etc.? If you go to law school and manage expectations vs. debt it can (hopefully) work for you in the long run. My current job is a manual labor one and believe me that shit sucks. After working 60 hours week after week in the heat and cold, all the while being watched like a hawk for production rates, I can tell you that I will gladly take on a little debt to go to law school, something I want to do (and yes I will be expected meet benchmarks as an attorney but at least it isn't backbreaking work.) Hell, I have a TTT that gave me some money which makes tuition 3k a year and with living expenses minus what I have saved I could get out with 30k or under debt. Law school is only a "scam" to the people who take out massive loans and don't weigh them according to prospects, or thing a job will be handed to them.. Hell, I'm from Ohio and know someone paying sticker at Capital Law School at 33k tuition - this is the kind of crazy shit that has to stop. Kid is going to be 130k plus in debt at graduation!

Don't be like the TJ Law guy in the NY Times article and things could turn out okay for you. And BTW, what kind of dumb ass goes to Thomas Jefferson Law and moves back east?


+1

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:21 pm

Yes, MPJ, limiting debt load was the thrust of posting this. And, I agree....TJSL probably does not sell well with the majority of the east coast. :shock:

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:24 pm

rose711 wrote:I stopped reading after this sentence:

The artificially high incomes of lawyers are made possible entirely by inflation, which steals the wealth from hard working goods producing middle-class Americans and transfers it to those who add no real value to society.


I am a little tired of the idea that lawyers add no real value to society.

But, if the basic idea is that it is at least as foolish to take out six-figure loans to pay for an education that has no guarantee of resulting in a job allowing you to pay it back, as it is to borrow a sub-prime mortgage for a house you can never pay for. I see so many people who think that if you go to an Ivy League School for undergrad you can easily afford to repay over $100,000 in loans and the same applies to Law School. If this article helps more people realize that borrowing a fortune you can't repay will set you back for life, then I guess it is a good thing.


Have you read the lawyer jokes lately? Many would disagree that lawyers have ANY VALUE at all :)

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BrownBears09
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby BrownBears09 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:33 pm

rose711 wrote:I see so many people who think that if you go to an Ivy League School for undergrad you can easily afford to repay over $100,000 in loans and the same applies to Law School.


Except the Ivies give out need-based grants based on family income. If you paid $100,000+ to go to an Ivy UG, then your family can probably afford it.

(FWIW, I owe $25,000 in loans, and do not regret my decision one bit.)

TheOcho
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby TheOcho » Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:49 pm

General Tso wrote:dude gold was $500 an ounce in 2006, today it is over $1400 an ounce. it is something that is desirable only in times of financial turmoil. It has no capacity to generate revenue or dividends the way a rental house or a stock can. its value has been driven up by a bunch of quacks like Glenn Beck and as soon as the world economy smooths out, gold is going to be worth $500/oz. once again.

if you want a safe investment and have a down payment, buy a house. that both appreciates in value AND generates rents. and prices and rates are pretty damn low in most parts of the country.



There is absolutely no reason to assume a home will always increase in value. People were spewing that same type of rhetoric just before the housing market crashed. Buying is not always the intelligent option.

Also, most people who are financially savvy don't buy gold or silver to earn a massive return. Gold and silver are used to maintain a store of value when the dollar is losing value. It isn't about generating a return on net (although that might happen) it's about maintaining your current level of wealth. And I believe you can buy stock in companies that mine gold that will pay dividends.




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