Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

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Mr. T
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Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:42 pm


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pokerlaw
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby pokerlaw » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:56 pm

Don't go to law school buy gold and silver instead!!!

Disclaimer: Didn't read the article.

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Fresh
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Fresh » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:05 pm

pokerlaw wrote:!

Disclaimer: Didn't read the article.


Smart move ^

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TJISMYHERO
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby TJISMYHERO » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:12 pm

I read the article. It seems pretty slanted to me. I'm sorry but the "lawyers are going to be working at mcdonalds" argument isn't very convincing.

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albusdumbledore
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby albusdumbledore » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:15 pm

College education could possibly be the largest scam in U.S. history.


Duh. Also WTF is the National Inflation Association? This looks like fear-mongering propaganda. No doubt a consortium of gold and silver sellers.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:18 pm

albusdumbledore wrote:
College education could possibly be the largest scam in U.S. history.


Duh. Also WTF is the National Inflation Association? This looks like fear-mongering propaganda. No doubt a consortium of gold and silver sellers.


Sounds like they'd advertise during Glenn Beck's show. Isn't that pretty much the only sponsors he has left?

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rinkrat19
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby rinkrat19 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:22 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
albusdumbledore wrote:
College education could possibly be the largest scam in U.S. history.


Duh. Also WTF is the National Inflation Association? This looks like fear-mongering propaganda. No doubt a consortium of gold and silver sellers.


Sounds like they'd advertise during Glenn Beck's show. Aren't scammy gold-buyers pretty much the only sponsors he has left?

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albusdumbledore
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby albusdumbledore » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:23 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
albusdumbledore wrote:
College education could possibly be the largest scam in U.S. history.


Duh. Also WTF is the National Inflation Association? This looks like fear-mongering propaganda. No doubt a consortium of gold and silver sellers.


Sounds like they'd advertise during Glenn Beck's show. Isn't that pretty much the only sponsors he has left?


Probably. I was right though. It's run by some dude who pushes gold and silver: http://personalmoneystore.com/moneyblog ... sociation/

Fear sells.

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MTal
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby MTal » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:28 pm

TJISMYHERO wrote:I read the article. It seems pretty slanted to me. I'm sorry but the "lawyers are going to be working at mcdonalds" argument isn't very convincing.


True enough...why would any fast food manager hire a lawyer when they would immediately bolt for one of those 6 figure jobs that all lawyers work at?

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:32 pm

While the message may have some slant - the numbers can't be faked. I did not post this to alter your life plans...just to make you aware of the costs you are about to take on (which you will carry for a long time). I think this article points to smart individuals attending in-state schools and working with less debt loads when they get out.

Alos, the NY Times article mentions, essentially, the same shrinking industry. So while the McDonald's example may fall short - I think it is wise to hear the entire message being voiced.

Even the ABA site states "The world is shrinking and becoming increasingly interconnected. This interdependence places new demands on attorneys to move flexibly and fluidly between different states and countries. New dilemmas arise about attorney credentials, licensing requirements, and the regulation of the legal profession. One suggestion is to develop a global credential that would encompass several professions." Add to this a poor economy and make your own conclusion.

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Leira7905
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Leira7905 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:36 pm

TJISMYHERO wrote:I read the article. It seems pretty slanted to me. I'm sorry but the "lawyers are going to be working at mcdonalds" argument isn't very convincing.


Exactly. Back-up plans people! Anyone smart enough to complete their undergrad with a decent GPA and score high enough on the LSAT to be accepted into (at least into a top 100) law school, should at least put some thought into a "Plan B" in case everything doesn't pan out the way it does in the movies. No one with a law degree should put themselves in a position to have to sink so low as to flip burgers (not that there's anything wrong with that for people without said law degree).

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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby rundoxierun » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:39 pm

Leira7905 wrote:
TJISMYHERO wrote:I read the article. It seems pretty slanted to me. I'm sorry but the "lawyers are going to be working at mcdonalds" argument isn't very convincing.


Exactly. Back-up plans people! Anyone smart enough to complete their undergrad with a decent GPA and score high enough on the LSAT to be accepted into (at least into a top 100) law school, should at least put some thought into a "Plan B" in case everything doesn't pan out the way it does in the movies. No one with a law degree should put themselves in a position to have to sink so low as to flip burgers (not that there's anything wrong with that for people without said law degree).


You dont have to be very smart to get into a top 100 school.

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Leira7905
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Leira7905 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:41 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
Leira7905 wrote:
TJISMYHERO wrote:I read the article. It seems pretty slanted to me. I'm sorry but the "lawyers are going to be working at mcdonalds" argument isn't very convincing.


Exactly. Back-up plans people! Anyone smart enough to complete their undergrad with a decent GPA and score high enough on the LSAT to be accepted into (at least into a top 100) law school, should at least put some thought into a "Plan B" in case everything doesn't pan out the way it does in the movies. No one with a law degree should put themselves in a position to have to sink so low as to flip burgers (not that there's anything wrong with that for people without said law degree).


You dont have to be very smart to get into a top 100 school.


Compared to T14 grads, no.. Compared to the general population? Yeah, ya do.

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stintez
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby stintez » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:44 pm

Leira7905 wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:
Leira7905 wrote:
TJISMYHERO wrote:I read the article. It seems pretty slanted to me. I'm sorry but the "lawyers are going to be working at mcdonalds" argument isn't very convincing.


Exactly. Back-up plans people! Anyone smart enough to complete their undergrad with a decent GPA and score high enough on the LSAT to be accepted into (at least into a top 100) law school, should at least put some thought into a "Plan B" in case everything doesn't pan out the way it does in the movies. No one with a law degree should put themselves in a position to have to sink so low as to flip burgers (not that there's anything wrong with that for people without said law degree).


You dont have to be very smart to get into a top 100 school.


Compared to T14 grads, no.. Compared to the general population? Yeah, ya do.[/quote
+1 the average person in the US is not exactly bright.

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albusdumbledore
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby albusdumbledore » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:45 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
Leira7905 wrote:
TJISMYHERO wrote:I read the article. It seems pretty slanted to me. I'm sorry but the "lawyers are going to be working at mcdonalds" argument isn't very convincing.


Exactly. Back-up plans people! Anyone smart enough to complete their undergrad with a decent GPA and score high enough on the LSAT to be accepted into (at least into a top 100) law school, should at least put some thought into a "Plan B" in case everything doesn't pan out the way it does in the movies. No one with a law degree should put themselves in a position to have to sink so low as to flip burgers (not that there's anything wrong with that for people without said law degree).


You dont have to be very smart to get into a top 100 school.


You really don't have to be very smart to not flip burgers either.

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:45 pm

Leira is right.....I mean if anything - the article points towards the stupidity of the general population when it comes to undergrad student loans. What's more, the success of the overpriced "for profit" universities do as well.

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:52 pm

I personally found this thought interesting:

"Schools are using dozens of unethical tactics to manipulate their numbers while encouraging alumni to falsify the surveys they fill out about their employment situation. Just like we are now seeing countless class action lawsuits against mortgage companies that misled customers about the loans they signed up for, we will soon see a massive number of lawsuits filed against colleges that lied about their job placement rates and average starting salaries of graduates. (At least there will be some work for law school graduates.)"

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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby General Tso » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:03 pm

these people writing these articles are not very bright. it's always "law school = stupid!" "agriculture school = smart!" or "become a plumber!" They have no idea about those industries and yet suggest it as if it's something everyone can do. Small farmers make almost nothing in this country. There are 4 or 5 huge agribusiness companies that dominate 95% of that 1.2% GDP market.

If you check the BLS, professions like plumbing, electricians, contractors, etc. are projected to shed jobs over the next 10-15 years. There was an article in the NYT talking about a Northern California nursing school that placed ZERO of its ~100 graduates in 2009, and only something like 10-15 in 2010.

Even top accounting schools are only seeing about 50% placement for recent grads, and that is one of the more desirable professions at the moment. Short of getting an MD or a Pharm D, there is almost nothing a young person can do to guarantee a high salary. Check out economicmobility.org and you will find that the U.S. has among the lowest social mobility of any industrialized country. We've all lost, so let's stop the law school scam pity-party.

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:09 pm

General, I think the "We have all lost" statement is true. But, are any of those professions asking its people to take on an additional 100,000 in debt before earning a dime? I mean, a farmer can work the land....what can a lawyer do when its all said and done - he can't even get prepared to take the bar exam during law school and must teach himself (for an additional year - more debt) before he can attempt it.

This is a cautionary piece and nothing more. You can defend wanting to go to law school and becoming a lawyer all you want.

Truth be told, our economy sucks, the dollar is on its way down, the unsavory fiscal practices of this country have us dangling on edge and college / graduate school debts could be the next bubble to burst.
Last edited by Mr. T on Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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General Tso
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby General Tso » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:13 pm

Mr. T wrote:General, I think the "We have all lost" statement is true. But, are any of those professions asking its people to take on an additional 100,000 in debt before earning a dime?

This is a cautionary piece and nothing more. You can defend wanting to go to law school and becoming a lawyer all you want. Truth be told, our economy sucks, the dollar is on its way down, and the unsavory fiscal practices of this country are have us dangling on edge.


I agree with much of what he says about tuition inflation... anybody can see that law school is way too expensive. Perhaps the smartest move is just to move into mom and pop's place until these selfish geezers finally decide to retire and realize that the younger generation needs to work and pay taxes in order for them to have medical care.

yes, I am an unapologetic Ageist.

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:16 pm

Or, as I already mentioned, to attend in-state schools with a much lower tuition (look at the Univ of Florida or Florida International University, in my case) as examples.

If I can walk out of UF with a JD and 20,000 worth of debt - I'm ok with that. But the sorry bastard going to Barry University in orlando coming out with 100,000 is on crack.

Everyone should be looking this route outside of the t-14.
Last edited by Mr. T on Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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General Tso
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby General Tso » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:17 pm

Mr. T wrote:Or, as I already mentioned, to make in-state schools with much lower tuition (look at the Univ of Florida or Florida International University, in my case) as examples.

If I can walk out of UF with a JD and 20,000 worth of debt - I'm ok with that. But the sorry bastard going to Barry University in orlando coming out with 100,000 is on crack.


I don't know how much longer that will last though. The country is bankrupt and education is almost always first on the chopping block. My public school tuition has gone from $11,000 per year in 2003 to $39,000 in 2010.

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General Tso
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby General Tso » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:19 pm

funny how that article's closing recommendation is to put all your savings in Silver instead. he warns about the college loan bubble and then suggests that his followers put money into the commodities bubble instead. incredibly foolish.

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:20 pm

Right on track with what the article says....education is overpriced and bought with gauranteed federal loans = a potential bubble equal or greater to the real estate market.

How many own homes compared to those who carry student loan debt? I bet student loans dwarf homeowners (of a certain age - because student loans typically can get pushed out 30 years).

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Mr. T
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Re: Another Sobering Article Mentioning Law School Debt

Postby Mr. T » Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:22 pm

Silver / gold is safer than the dollar at this point. I have done extensive research on this and the collapse of the dollar is happening as we speak. Throughout history gold/silver helped the smart trade/barter/pay during these tough times.

Your dollars are a "promise to pay" and are not worth shit (kinda like a lawyer without work) because it has no tangable value. Whereas gold/silver have always held their value through all kinds of hardships.

By the way, I bought gold in 2008 for 600/oz....its at nearly 1200/oz today and I made enough to pay for law school.
Last edited by Mr. T on Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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