Questions about Pepperdine

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NorCalBruin
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby NorCalBruin » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:32 pm

Please don't base any of your decision on how fast this or that person responded from admissions, or how efficiently they set up tours. They won't be teaching you. They won't be studying with you. It's unlikely you will ever talk to them again after you start school. Is it stupid of them to make a bad impression? Absolutely. But I wouldn't hold it against the program.

Sean1269
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby Sean1269 » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:51 pm

NorCalBruin wrote:Please don't base any of your decision on how fast this or that person responded from admissions, or how efficiently they set up tours. They won't be teaching you. They won't be studying with you. It's unlikely you will ever talk to them again after you start school. Is it stupid of them to make a bad impression? Absolutely. But I wouldn't hold it against the program.


^^ Very true! I will say the lady who gives the tours at Pepperdine is super super nice though. I took the tour before I came and found that she was a straight shooter, she did not hide the fact that employment prospects aren't quite what they used to be, but she took the time to explain how the school/alums are helping alleviate the problem. My advice, visit both schools, look at the curriculum of each, look into the programs the schools have to offer, but most off all go somewhere that you feel comfortable and somewhere you can see yourself living for the next three years. Make sure while you're at both schools to talk to some students there too, the tour guide will probably have some picked out for you to talk to, but as one can imagine they will not say anything negative. Find a student sitting on the terrace and approach them.

Just my two cents though

CanadianWolf
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:00 pm

Read the TLS law school profile on Pepperdine. Suggestion is that Pepperdine Law may not be a wise investment--just as many other law schools are advising applicants in their web descriptions.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby BarbellDreams » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:09 pm

I am not comparing Pepperdine to Harvard. I am comparing it to the schools in a better market with less competition. Berkley students just got annihilated at OCI, what chance do you think Pepperdine grads have? The California market is statistically the worst market in America for lawyer right now. Period. Every school outside of Stanford is struggling, and there are at least 7 schools who outrank Pepperdine in the market and in employment statistics. The truth of the matter is if you got into Pepperdine you likely have better options where you can also get into. Off the top of my head, the T2's that would likely put you in a better situation are schools like UConn, Tennesse, Missouri, Temple, Villanova, Pitt, Case Western, Florida (though the FL market is really rough too). These are just some of the better options, would leave you with way less debt and will give you at least the same job prospects. Honestly, if you cant guarantee top 10% (No one can, though everyone think they can), I suggest not going to Pepperdine.

Sean1269
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby Sean1269 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:40 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:I am not comparing Pepperdine to Harvard. I am comparing it to the schools in a better market with less competition. Berkley students just got annihilated at OCI, what chance do you think Pepperdine grads have? The California market is statistically the worst market in America for lawyer right now. Period. Every school outside of Stanford is struggling, and there are at least 7 schools who outrank Pepperdine in the market and in employment statistics. The truth of the matter is if you got into Pepperdine you likely have better options where you can also get into. Off the top of my head, the T2's that would likely put you in a better situation are schools like UConn, Tennesse, Missouri, Temple, Villanova, Pitt, Case Western, Florida (though the FL market is really rough too). These are just some of the better options, would leave you with way less debt and will give you at least the same job prospects. Honestly, if you cant guarantee top 10% (No one can, though everyone think they can), I suggest not going to Pepperdine.



^^ Correction, the listed schools would give you at least the same job prospects if you want to live in the midwest, or in those schools' respective markets. However, if you are looking into the SoCal/LA market, I would suggest stay local, minimize your debt as much as possible, and all the other usual things (study hard, exploit family connections, network, etc).

I will concede the point that the CA market is tough, ideally the market will be better for those entering LS now. Back to the original point of this post though since it has strayed into coming midwest t2's with western t2's...LMU and Pepperdine are great choices, if you have a scholly go the school with the bigger one. Negotiate it to be larger as well.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby BarbellDreams » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:27 pm

Honestly, if you HAVE t stay in CA no matter what then I would just retake. A quick glance at statistics show that in that market anything lower than Davis or Hastings without a huge scholly is a nightmare. Generally TLS advises students at T2's to aim for 75k of debt at the absolute max, Pepperdine generally costs twice that.

Sean1269
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby Sean1269 » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:05 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Honestly, if you HAVE t stay in CA no matter what then I would just retake. A quick glance at statistics show that in that market anything lower than Davis or Hastings without a huge scholly is a nightmare. Generally TLS advises students at T2's to aim for 75k of debt at the absolute max, Pepperdine generally costs twice that.


I can't blame whomever wants to stay in CA as opposed to the midwest because CA is nice. However, if you got a big scholly to Pepperdine (which is usually recurring if you're in the top third), you have probably also gotten into Davis and Hastings with scholarships that are guaranteed for one year. I know this due to personal experience. I am not dissing either of those schools for academics because they are great schools with excellent Professors. They are nonetheless UC schools, and having gone to a UC myself and watching my tuition rise from $2100 per quarter to over $3000 per quarter was not fun. UCs are in a budget crisis, they can't say when their tuition will stop rising. When I was at Hastings and Davis ASD's and inquired about it, I got the response of "Tuition may go up, but we are making loans easier to get"...great...loans....So take it with a grain of salt when you go to ASD and they tell you more schollys are available your second year. Those are mostly private and are difficult to get. My advice still stands, go the school which will minimize your debt the most and work your tail off.

keg411
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby keg411 » Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:49 pm

Anecdotal, but a friend of mine went to Pepperdine because she wanted to be in LA. Ended up having to move back to FL and take the bar there because there were no jobs in LA. She finally got a job in FL (the Orlando area). This is an '09 grad.

OP, if I were you, I would only consider schools like Pepperdine/Loyola LA if you are from Cali (and if you are considering those schools, it's unlikely you can get into UC's). ITE, if you aren't going T13, stay in your home state if possible (and go to a state school, if possible).

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worldtraveler
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby worldtraveler » Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:39 am

BarbellDreams wrote:I am not comparing Pepperdine to Harvard. I am comparing it to the schools in a better market with less competition. Berkley students just got annihilated at OCI, what chance do you think Pepperdine grads have? The California market is statistically the worst market in America for lawyer right now. Period. Every school outside of Stanford is struggling, and there are at least 7 schools who outrank Pepperdine in the market and in employment statistics. The truth of the matter is if you got into Pepperdine you likely have better options where you can also get into. Off the top of my head, the T2's that would likely put you in a better situation are schools like UConn, Tennesse, Missouri, Temple, Villanova, Pitt, Case Western, Florida (though the FL market is really rough too). These are just some of the better options, would leave you with way less debt and will give you at least the same job prospects. Honestly, if you cant guarantee top 10% (No one can, though everyone think they can), I suggest not going to Pepperdine.



Say what?????

thegor1987
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby thegor1987 » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:07 am

I've seen downtown LA and I've seen the Pepperdine campus. Beautiful green grass and clean air everywhere vs. downtown LA which kind of sucks for a big city.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:15 am

worldtraveler wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:I am not comparing Pepperdine to Harvard. I am comparing it to the schools in a better market with less competition. Berkley students just got annihilated at OCI, what chance do you think Pepperdine grads have? The California market is statistically the worst market in America for lawyer right now. Period. Every school outside of Stanford is struggling, and there are at least 7 schools who outrank Pepperdine in the market and in employment statistics. The truth of the matter is if you got into Pepperdine you likely have better options where you can also get into. Off the top of my head, the T2's that would likely put you in a better situation are schools like UConn, Tennesse, Missouri, Temple, Villanova, Pitt, Case Western, Florida (though the FL market is really rough too). These are just some of the better options, would leave you with way less debt and will give you at least the same job prospects. Honestly, if you cant guarantee top 10% (No one can, though everyone think they can), I suggest not going to Pepperdine.



Say what?????


Go to the law students forum and ask Berkley students how they did being recruited from CA firms. It wasn't pretty this year. The great thing is that if you go to Boalt you have a portable degree whereas if you go to Pepperdine you don't and will be doing doc review for $15/hr. if you strike out with the CA firms.

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El_Gallo
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby El_Gallo » Mon Jan 24, 2011 11:30 am

thegor1987 wrote:Go to the law students forum and ask Berkley students how they did being recruited from CA firms. It wasn't pretty this year. The great thing is that if you go to Boalt you have a portable degree whereas if you go to Pepperdine you don't and will be doing doc review for $15/hr. if you strike out with the CA firms.



I'm pretty sure worldtraveler goes to Berkley.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:22 pm

El_Gallo wrote:
thegor1987 wrote:Go to the law students forum and ask Berkley students how they did being recruited from CA firms. It wasn't pretty this year. The great thing is that if you go to Boalt you have a portable degree whereas if you go to Pepperdine you don't and will be doing doc review for $15/hr. if you strike out with the CA firms.



I'm pretty sure worldtraveler goes to Berkley.


Hey, thats good for him/her. Not saying there was no recruitment, just saying it was down for a school like Boalt.

originalmutt
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby originalmutt » Mon Jan 24, 2011 2:56 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:I am not comparing Pepperdine to Harvard. I am comparing it to the schools in a better market with less competition. Berkley students just got annihilated at OCI, what chance do you think Pepperdine grads have? The California market is statistically the worst market in America for lawyer right now. Period. Every school outside of Stanford is struggling, and there are at least 7 schools who outrank Pepperdine in the market and in employment statistics. The truth of the matter is if you got into Pepperdine you likely have better options where you can also get into. Off the top of my head, the T2's that would likely put you in a better situation are schools like UConn, Tennesse, Missouri, Temple, Villanova, Pitt, Case Western, Florida (though the FL market is really rough too). These are just some of the better options, would leave you with way less debt and will give you at least the same job prospects. Honestly, if you cant guarantee top 10% (No one can, though everyone think they can), I suggest not going to Pepperdine.


OK, this is more thoughtful than your original post and I don't disagree with some things you are saying. However, I'm not interested in practicing law in the Midwest, Northeast or the South. I want to practice law in LA, so many of these points are irrelevant to me. The fact is that Pepperdine is the third highest ranked school in the LA area. UC-Davis and UC-Hastings are indeed ranked higher, but that doesn't mean those schools will offer competitive financial aid packages or that my job prospects will be substantially better.

So, yes, top 14 is better ... but most of us on this thread didn't get into a top 14 school, so telling us to go to a place we didn't get into is pretty worthless advice. It borders on trolling.

I've also applied to UCLA, USC, UC-Hastings and have been accepted into Loyola. Obviously, I'll have to wait to see what those schools offer before making a decision.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:00 pm

Honestly if you got a better scholly I would go to Loyola over Pepperdine. 2 schools in the "LA area" doesnt matter since all the other ones in CA that are ranked better will take the jobs along with a LOT of t14 grads. If you are staying in CA come hell or high water you need to retake. If you refuse, just go to a T3 or T4 with close to fullride.

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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby arhmcpo » Mon Jan 24, 2011 3:20 pm

originalmutt wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:I am not comparing Pepperdine to Harvard. I am comparing it to the schools in a better market with less competition. Berkley students just got annihilated at OCI, what chance do you think Pepperdine grads have? The California market is statistically the worst market in America for lawyer right now. Period. Every school outside of Stanford is struggling, and there are at least 7 schools who outrank Pepperdine in the market and in employment statistics. The truth of the matter is if you got into Pepperdine you likely have better options where you can also get into. Off the top of my head, the T2's that would likely put you in a better situation are schools like UConn, Tennesse, Missouri, Temple, Villanova, Pitt, Case Western, Florida (though the FL market is really rough too). These are just some of the better options, would leave you with way less debt and will give you at least the same job prospects. Honestly, if you cant guarantee top 10% (No one can, though everyone think they can), I suggest not going to Pepperdine.


OK, this is more thoughtful than your original post and I don't disagree with some things you are saying. However, I'm not interested in practicing law in the Midwest, Northeast or the South. I want to practice law in LA, so many of these points are irrelevant to me. The fact is that Pepperdine is the third highest ranked school in the LA area. UC-Davis and UC-Hastings are indeed ranked higher, but that doesn't mean those schools will offer competitive financial aid packages or that my job prospects will be substantially better.

So, yes, top 14 is better ... but most of us on this thread didn't get into a top 14 school, so telling us to go to a place we didn't get into is pretty worthless advice. It borders on trolling.

I've also applied to UCLA, USC, UC-Hastings and have been accepted into Loyola. Obviously, I'll have to wait to see what those schools offer before making a decision.


Correct; the relevant demographic here has numbers sufficient to get money and admittance to UCH, UCD, Pepperdine, Loyola etc. but not hit T14 or UCLA - USC. And anyone who gets into UCH or UCD w/ money will get into Pepperdine and Loyola with even more money. So people have to decide if the cost-benefit is that much greater to go to UCH or UCD with greater debt than the socal T2s. For wanting to practice in socal, IMO there's no question to reduce debt and go to the local T2.
BarbellDreams wrote:Honestly if you got a better scholly I would go to Loyola over Pepperdine. 2 schools in the "LA area" doesnt matter since all the other ones in CA that are ranked better will take the jobs along with a LOT of t14 grads. If you are staying in CA come hell or high water you need to retake. If you refuse, just go to a T3 or T4 with close to fullride.


I generally agree with what your saying that reducing debt should be the most important factor, but honestly having met with employers and students from Southwestern/Chapman/Whittier I think you are taking such a huge prestige/job prospect hit that I don't know what advising T3/T4 in socal is ever good advice. Maybe if you know you want public interest (which is less about prestige of school) and Southwestern gave you a full ride that would make sense. Although, the nonprofit I was at last couple hires were all UCLA grads. Tough for the T2s in this market, seems damn near impossible for T3/T4 grads :?

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worldtraveler
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby worldtraveler » Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:51 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:I am not comparing Pepperdine to Harvard. I am comparing it to the schools in a better market with less competition. Berkley students just got annihilated at OCI, what chance do you think Pepperdine grads have? The California market is statistically the worst market in America for lawyer right now. Period. Every school outside of Stanford is struggling, and there are at least 7 schools who outrank Pepperdine in the market and in employment statistics. The truth of the matter is if you got into Pepperdine you likely have better options where you can also get into. Off the top of my head, the T2's that would likely put you in a better situation are schools like UConn, Tennesse, Missouri, Temple, Villanova, Pitt, Case Western, Florida (though the FL market is really rough too). These are just some of the better options, would leave you with way less debt and will give you at least the same job prospects. Honestly, if you cant guarantee top 10% (No one can, though everyone think they can), I suggest not going to Pepperdine.



Say what?????


Go to the law students forum and ask Berkley students how they did being recruited from CA firms. It wasn't pretty this year. The great thing is that if you go to Boalt you have a portable degree whereas if you go to Pepperdine you don't and will be doing doc review for $15/hr. if you strike out with the CA firms.


I go to school there, and I'm saying I don't know WTF you're talking about. But apparently you read online forums so please, educate me.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:13 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:I am not comparing Pepperdine to Harvard. I am comparing it to the schools in a better market with less competition. Berkley students just got annihilated at OCI, what chance do you think Pepperdine grads have? The California market is statistically the worst market in America for lawyer right now. Period. Every school outside of Stanford is struggling, and there are at least 7 schools who outrank Pepperdine in the market and in employment statistics. The truth of the matter is if you got into Pepperdine you likely have better options where you can also get into. Off the top of my head, the T2's that would likely put you in a better situation are schools like UConn, Tennesse, Missouri, Temple, Villanova, Pitt, Case Western, Florida (though the FL market is really rough too). These are just some of the better options, would leave you with way less debt and will give you at least the same job prospects. Honestly, if you cant guarantee top 10% (No one can, though everyone think they can), I suggest not going to Pepperdine.



Say what?????


Go to the law students forum and ask Berkley students how they did being recruited from CA firms. It wasn't pretty this year. The great thing is that if you go to Boalt you have a portable degree whereas if you go to Pepperdine you don't and will be doing doc review for $15/hr. if you strike out with the CA firms.


I go to school there, and I'm saying I don't know WTF you're talking about. But apparently you read online forums so please, educate me.


I'm not there, but seems like every law student in the law student forums who is there said OCI for CA biglaw from Boalt was rough this time around.

originalmutt
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby originalmutt » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:37 pm

arhmcpo wrote:I generally agree with what your saying that reducing debt should be the most important factor, but honestly having met with employers and students from Southwestern/Chapman/Whittier I think you are taking such a huge prestige/job prospect hit that I don't know what advising T3/T4 in socal is ever good advice. Maybe if you know you want public interest (which is less about prestige of school) and Southwestern gave you a full ride that would make sense. Although, the nonprofit I was at last couple hires were all UCLA grads. Tough for the T2s in this market, seems damn near impossible for T3/T4 grads :?


+1, but with one caveat: public interest can actually be even snobbier than Big Law.

But for everyone else, there is a huge, huge difference between Pepperdine/Loyola and Southwestern and Tier 4. Telling someone to choose T4 over a top T2 school may make sense with 22-year-old non-lawyers on TLS, but in the real world that's idiotic.

I know everyone on here pretends to have 180s with 4.0 GPAs and think going to T2 school is beneath them, but in the real world those are good schools that produce good attorneys. Almost half the judges in LA, for example, went to Loyola. I think they turned out alright.

I would renew my call to keep this thread on subject. If you're a TLS troll who wants to attack everyone for not getting into a non-Top 14, please go back to playing Dungeons and Dragons and let us be.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:41 pm

Not sure what you're getting at with a 22-year-old non lawyer comment. If anything those people are the ones that typically think a school that ranks 46 is better than a school that ranks 47 and who cares about debt cause you're gonna be rich. I renew my comment on Pepperdine is a huge mistake if you have to take out over 75k total for the 3 years unless you make top 10% or law review (not anything anyone can guarantee). I am just another law student wasting time on TLS instead of writing my bench memo so feel free to disregard, just remember to bookmark this topic and look back 3 years from now.

bigmnstyle
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby bigmnstyle » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:00 am

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Last edited by bigmnstyle on Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

bigmnstyle
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby bigmnstyle » Sun Apr 03, 2011 10:11 pm

BarbellDreams wrote:Honestly, if you HAVE t stay in CA no matter what then I would just retake. A quick glance at statistics show that in that market anything lower than Davis or Hastings without a huge scholly is a nightmare. Generally TLS advises students at T2's to aim for 75k of debt at the absolute max, Pepperdine generally costs twice that.



Dumb talk...

If you want to stay in Cali and you want to practice law and you are just entering school--both choices are great. The market won't be this bad when you graduate. In addition, I think other things should factor in on the "TLS" advice. For example, someone who is 25 and graduates law school has a long time to pay back that debt. Someone who is in their 30's may want to be a little more debt conscious. Everyone should be cautious of how much money they spend; however, if you want to practice law in CALI go for it... you are choosing among great schools. No they are not Stanfords--you will be fine though.

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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:16 am

bigmnstyle wrote:
BarbellDreams wrote:Honestly, if you HAVE t stay in CA no matter what then I would just retake. A quick glance at statistics show that in that market anything lower than Davis or Hastings without a huge scholly is a nightmare. Generally TLS advises students at T2's to aim for 75k of debt at the absolute max, Pepperdine generally costs twice that.



Dumb talk...

If you want to stay in Cali and you want to practice law and you are just entering school--both choices are great. The market won't be this bad when you graduate. In addition, I think other things should factor in on the "TLS" advice. For example, someone who is 25 and graduates law school has a long time to pay back that debt. Someone who is in their 30's may want to be a little more debt conscious. Everyone should be cautious of how much money they spend; however, if you want to practice law in CALI go for it... you are choosing among great schools. No they are not Stanfords--you will be fine though.


*Facepalm*

bigmnstyle
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby bigmnstyle » Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:47 am

The key to that comment was "this bad."

Has 4 years until he starts looking for a job assuming he goes to school in August and takes the bar. I would put my money that the legal market is somewhat better. That wasn't the point of the post though.

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BarbellDreams
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Re: Questions about Pepperdine

Postby BarbellDreams » Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:19 pm

bigmnstyle wrote:The key to that comment was "this bad."

Has 4 years until he starts looking for a job assuming he goes to school in August and takes the bar. I would put my money that the legal market is somewhat better. That wasn't the point of the post though.


It hurts repeating this since it has been posted on TLS so much its ridiculous but since this is a thread full of 0L's I'll repeat it. You dont have 3 years for a better market, you have 1 (as in, when you do OCI is all that matters). If the market is bad at the end of your 1L summer you are screwed because thats when OCI happens, and getting jobs during OCI season is all that matters. The job you get from OCI is the job you work during your 2L summer and then hope to get an offer from.




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