HYS

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pennyloafer17
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HYS

Postby pennyloafer17 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:57 am

Which would you go to and why? I know it's been debated before but I'm too lazy to search the threads

lakerfanimal
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Re: HYS

Postby lakerfanimal » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:18 am

pennyloafer17 wrote:Which would you go to and why? I know it's been debated before but I'm too lazy to search the threads


Congratulations, that's an incredible accomplishment :shock:

I'm simplifying here but:

Stanford is the only amazing school in CA, which is what would put it on top for me (in addition to it having superstar faculty that teach very well, a small class, and at this level employment prospects are awesome for all 3). Harvard's edge is the diversity of programs/clinics. Yale's edge is supposed to be faculty, and insane employment prospects (but I know unemployed Yale alums fwiw..). Go visit all 3 of them. They are all very very different. Good luck!

Casey2889
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Re: HYS

Postby Casey2889 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:50 pm

If you want Big Law/Clerkships, I would say Yale or Stanford, followed by Harvard (in my opinion).

Talked with (1) an alum from my univ. is now an associate and recruiter at Wachtell, (2) a relative who is senior vice president and managing partner at Vault T20 intl firm, and (3) an appellate litigator in D.C. who clerked on federal bench. Here is what I heard.

For Big Law: Consensus is that since Y and S are much smaller, class rank is less important. Top 50% of Y/S can get the same jobs that top 30% gets at H. Moreover, there is no competition to join law review at S/Y, whereas at H there is the infamous 1L recruitment and 2L politicking.

For clerkships: Raw numbers are skewed, supposedly, since H and Y students apparently self-select into fed bench opps, while SLS students tend to join private companies (i.e. SV tech start ups) at higher rates. Still, I'm told that the same dynamics as above, plus increased contact and higher visibility with Professors who are "more academic," help with bench placement ---> Y/S and then H.

Finally, I'm told regional variation in work placement is self-selecting w/ SLS, so don't think you won't get a job in NYC b/c you go there. The one caveat in my mind to all of this HLS hating is that HLS is culturally significant outside of legal ciricles and has an unmatched societal allure, irrespective of job prospects etc., if you are interested in it.

Any of these places are obviously great, wherever you go you'll be fine.

A&O
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Re: HYS

Postby A&O » Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:08 pm

What use is social allure when you can't get a jerb?

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dot
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Re: HYS

Postby dot » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:03 pm

Beyond placement, I think culture of the student body is a huge factor for me. Happiness, as it turns out, isn't just for people who are not Type A. For me, this puts it S---Y---------H. Granted I haven't visited Y and H, just been reading for a few years.

When you mix in placement, career opps, obviously Y gets a huge bump, so it might be Y--S---------H

Regarding lay prestige, if I told a guy on the bus that I'm going to Stanford Law School or Yale Law School, I think he'd be pretty damn impressed still. I don't think the extra bump in lay prestige for HLS really matters at this level of prestige. So mixing prestige, it still stands Y---S------H

Finally, throwing in my personal academic inclinations, S gets a huge bump for its MS in Environment and Resources program. While the Yale FES MEM is great, I will already have a MA in Enviro Mgmt, so I'm not too keen on that enviro program and prefer the more hard-science-focused MS at Stanford.

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tgir
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Re: HYS

Postby tgir » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:11 pm

Ahhh, a timeless question. As I see it, we really can only speculate about quality of life, given how subjective it is and the fact that no one has ever attended all three to make a comparison, and also about employment outcomes, as schools at this level have the luxury of lots of self-selection.

I think this is why wise people tend to stress "fit"--in other words, there is no right answer.

As for me, I have no idea which one I'd choose. But I'm sure the choice would come down to where I thought I'd be happiest.

rundoxierun
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Re: HYS

Postby rundoxierun » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:34 pm

Come in to this cycle, I believed the "Always Yale" hype. The more I thought about it, however, it became a lot more clear that people made iffy comparisons to get to that conclusion. A few things that I though about.

1) LRAP: Both have very, very good LRAP programs. Yale has higher income ceiling and possibly covers a wider range of jobs. Harvard assumes a 10 year repayment period instead of 15 and treats marriage a bit better. At the end of the day, Yale's LRAP is probably a little bit better for most people but definitely not enough to be a swaying factor.

2) Academia: Both do very well. Many people try to use percentages to say this is easily for Yale but I think that is a distortion. Due to the relative scarcity of these jobs you really should look at the absolute number as well since Harvard is 3 times as large. Taking this into account, along with self-selection, I really think this category is closer to a wash than people believe. It doesnt seem like one degree is going to give you any sizable advantage over the other.

3) Non-legal: This one is hard to definitively measure. General consensus is that Harvard is a non-legal monster. Im always uncomfortable blindly following consensus but there is very little to suggest otherwise. My biggest non-legal interest would be corporate/consulting. HBS blows away Yale's school and from what I have been told it isnt that difficult to JD/MBA if you want. For me, just the ability to cross-register with HBS is a potential advantage for my interests.

4) Network: While the large size of Harvard may be a disadvantage (percentage wise) for overall job placement, I dont think there is any place better for those who do well. There are no opportunities lost to good students and the Harvard network might open doors you cant even imagine. HLS grads are at the top in every place and in every industry.

5) Personal: Obviously, this depends on the person. I have a SO who is planning on moving out to law school with me and will need a job in an industry that is better served in cities. The 2hr+ commute to NYC from Yale, while possible, would be horrible. In addition, I really dont care much about classroom "intimacy". Professors are accessible enough for me if I can just get them to answer e-mails and show up to office hours. Harvard had a huge advantage here.

I think that for the vast majority of people the Personal should be the deciding factor. Everything else is just too close to be deciding factors. Any arguments that depend on % of class in elite positions/professions are strongly distorted by huge differences in class size and self-selection. Everything indicates that there isnt the huge gap between Harvard and Yale that people tend to believe.


Again, these three schools are so close that the their should be no set hierarchy. The choice should almost always come down to personal factors. Im not applying to Yale and have yet to hear from Stanford so for me the choice would be more difficult between Harvard and Stanford than between Harvard and Yale. Visit the ones you are interested in and take in the environment. When you get to the point of saying "I would have to be in the top 30% at H vs. top 50% at Y vs top 38% at S for a particular job" you are doing it wrong. Little to no doors are closed at any of these schools. You do fairly well at any and you are going to have big time opportunities.

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vanwinkle
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Re: HYS

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:38 pm

tkgrrett wrote:The choice should almost always come down to personal factors.

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pennyloafer17
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Re: HYS

Postby pennyloafer17 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:12 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:The choice should almost always come down to personal factors.


edited for privacy
Last edited by pennyloafer17 on Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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dextermorgan
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Re: HYS

Postby dextermorgan » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:19 pm

In Before "Yale. /thread"

Curry

Re: HYS

Postby Curry » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:24 pm

If you are too lazy to search for this, you probably aren't getting into any of them anyways.

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pennyloafer17
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Re: HYS

Postby pennyloafer17 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:36 pm

Curry wrote:If you are too lazy to search for this, you probably aren't getting into any of them anyways.



I got into all of them...thanks for the attitude though

Curry

Re: HYS

Postby Curry » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:39 pm

pennyloafer17 wrote:
Curry wrote:If you are too lazy to search for this, you probably aren't getting into any of them anyways.



I got into all of them...thanks for the attitude though


That was more a "use the search function" jab rather than a "you're an idiot" jab. Congrats on getting into all of them. Now search.

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pennyloafer17
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Re: HYS

Postby pennyloafer17 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:41 pm

Curry wrote:
pennyloafer17 wrote:
Curry wrote:If you are too lazy to search for this, you probably aren't getting into any of them anyways.



I got into all of them...thanks for the attitude though


That was more a "use the search function" jab rather than a "you're an idiot" jab. Congrats on getting into all of them. Now search.


sigh fine:)

WayBryson
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Re: HYS

Postby WayBryson » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:50 pm

pennyloafer17 wrote:
Curry wrote:
pennyloafer17 wrote:
Curry wrote:If you are too lazy to search for this, you probably aren't getting into any of them anyways.



I got into all of them...thanks for the attitude though


That was more a "use the search function" jab rather than a "you're an idiot" jab. Congrats on getting into all of them. Now search.


sigh fine:)


This made me smile. Assuming you're legit, congratulations.

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almightypush
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Re: HYS

Postby almightypush » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:04 pm

pennyloafer17 wrote:
Curry wrote:If you are too lazy to search for this, you probably aren't getting into any of them anyways.



I got into all of them...thanks for the attitude though


lulz.

LurkerNoMore
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Re: HYS

Postby LurkerNoMore » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:04 pm

Y or S, whichever you prefer. ITE, with Harvard's new grading system, I wouldn't go there unless you plan on really grinding it out. Their class is just too large to risk not distinguishing yourself.

Rory1987
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Re: HYS

Postby Rory1987 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:05 pm

lakerfanimal wrote:
pennyloafer17 wrote:Which would you go to and why? I know it's been debated before but I'm too lazy to search the threads


Congratulations, that's an incredible accomplishment :shock:

I'm simplifying here but:

Stanford is the only amazing school in CA, which is what would put it on top for me (in addition to it having superstar faculty that teach very well, a small class, and at this level employment prospects are awesome for all 3). Harvard's edge is the diversity of programs/clinics. Yale's edge is supposed to be faculty, and insane employment prospects (but I know unemployed Yale alums fwiw..). Go visit all 3 of them. They are all very very different. Good luck!

:shock:

rundoxierun
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Re: HYS

Postby rundoxierun » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:02 am

LurkerNoMore wrote:Y or S, whichever you prefer. ITE, with Harvard's new grading system, I wouldn't go there unless you plan on really grinding it out. Their class is just too large to risk not distinguishing yourself.


This is complete speculation. People really need to stop saying this unless they know something special. Like Harvard changes its grading system and a huge amount of firms decides to start hiring all the equivalent CCN students over them just because of the change. No.

ETA: It still shocks me how circular these boards are. People just hear/read things and run with them (both online and in real life.)
Last edited by rundoxierun on Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Veyron
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Re: HYS

Postby Veyron » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:15 am

pennyloafer17 wrote:
Curry wrote:If you are too lazy to search for this, you probably aren't getting into any of them anyways.



I got into all of them...thanks for the attitude though


Epic pwnge.

P.S. if OP is too lazy to use the search function, Yale is the pretty clear answer, bunch of fucking slackers up in there. Video games durring finals week? Puuuulease!

brunonian
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Re: HYS

Postby brunonian » Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:52 pm

Veyron wrote:
pennyloafer17 wrote:
Curry wrote:If you are too lazy to search for this, you probably aren't getting into any of them anyways.



I got into all of them...thanks for the attitude though

P.S. if OP is too lazy to use the search function, Yale is the pretty clear answer, bunch of fucking slackers up in there.



Lol. Don't be trollin...

CrabDribble202
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Re: HYS

Postby CrabDribble202 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:08 pm

Yale for quality of life. 1L is brutal. Pass/Fail first semester takes away the stress, and second semester you can take whatever you want.

You can also end up with straight Ps at YLS and still get multiple V5 offers:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... &start=175

Not sure HLS and SLS can do the same, given the comments from students at each:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=144105

Curry

Re: HYS

Postby Curry » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:33 pm

brunonian wrote:
Veyron wrote:
pennyloafer17 wrote:
Curry wrote:If you are too lazy to search for this, you probably aren't getting into any of them anyways.



I got into all of them...thanks for the attitude though

P.S. if OP is too lazy to use the search function, Yale is the pretty clear answer, bunch of fucking slackers up in there.



Lol. Don't be trollin...


OP got me pretty bad... :oops: :oops:

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ahduth
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Re: HYS

Postby ahduth » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:05 pm

Curry wrote:OP got me pretty bad... :oops: :oops:


She certainly sounded pretty useless from her post, I can see how you'd make the mistake.

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The Stig
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Re: HYS

Postby The Stig » Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:09 pm

Curry wrote:OP got me pretty bad... :oops: :oops:



oh the irony of calling the OP too lazy for HYS, when you could have clicked on her profile and seen that she got into HYS :D




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