UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

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IgosduIkana
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UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby IgosduIkana » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:24 pm

I'm really interested in attending UCLA and working in California biglaw, but my only concern is that it's not a part of the "T14" we like to talk about. If I went to UCLA and performed well (say, top 30% of the class) would you be able to comfortably attain a biglaw job in Cali? Would it be a better, safer idea to go to a T14 and then move to California?

I apply in a couple years, but I was just wondering. Thanks in advance, I'm a long-time lurker and first-time poster! =)

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glitter178
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby glitter178 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:25 pm

tag

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bk1
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby bk1 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:27 pm

You're fixating too much on T14. If you want to work in California, UCLA is probably a much better option than places with equivalent overall prospects (like GULC/Cornell). I'd say UCLA is their equal, job prospects wise, and would easily take it over them for CA.

However, if you want an actual safe option, I would take something like UCD/UCH/UCI or the like with a full tuition ride if you can haggle for it. This does hurt your chances for biglaw, but it is magnitudes less risky than UCLA at sticker.

I also wouldn't assume you will be top 30%, if anything assume you will be around median and act on that.

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thecilent
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby thecilent » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:30 pm

bk1 wrote:However, if you want an actual safe option, I would take something like UCD/UCH/UCI or the like with a full tuition ride if you can haggle for it. This does hurt your chances for biglaw, but it is magnitudes less risky than UCLA at sticker.

I agree with this. Though I know some would argue against it

Edit - but if you want biglaw, apply to some safties in cali and go for all of the T14 and see what acceptances you get. Then you can decide whether to forego something in the rankings
Last edited by thecilent on Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grizz
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby Grizz » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:35 pm

bk1 wrote:However, if you want an actual safe option, I would take something like UCD/UCH/UCI or the like with a full tuition ride if you can haggle for it. This does hurt your chances for biglaw, but it is magnitudes less risky than UCLA at sticker.


Agree with this.

Nothing is "safe" for California biglaw. The state economy is horrible. Sticker at UCLA is not a great idea.

I also wouldn't assume you will be top 30%, if anything assume you will be around median and act on that.


This cannot be repeated enough to 0Ls.

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mottainai
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby mottainai » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:09 am

rad law wrote:
bk1 wrote:However, if you want an actual safe option, I would take something like UCD/UCH/UCI or the like with a full tuition ride if you can haggle for it. This does hurt your chances for biglaw, but it is magnitudes less risky than UCLA at sticker.


Agree with this.

Nothing is "safe" for California biglaw. The state economy is horrible. Sticker at UCLA is not a great idea.

I also wouldn't assume you will be top 30%, if anything assume you will be around median and act on that.


This cannot be repeated enough to 0Ls.


Sorry to hijack this for a second, but what about sticker T14 (let's say MVP and down) versus in-state sticker UCLA or $$USC for someone who wants to wants to practice in CA?

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hokie
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby hokie » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:20 am

mottainai wrote:
rad law wrote:
bk1 wrote:However, if you want an actual safe option, I would take something like UCD/UCH/UCI or the like with a full tuition ride if you can haggle for it. This does hurt your chances for biglaw, but it is magnitudes less risky than UCLA at sticker.


Agree with this.

Nothing is "safe" for California biglaw. The state economy is horrible. Sticker at UCLA is not a great idea.

I also wouldn't assume you will be top 30%, if anything assume you will be around median and act on that.


This cannot be repeated enough to 0Ls.


Sorry to hijack this for a second, but what about sticker T14 (let's say MVP and down) versus in-state sticker UCLA or $$USC for someone who wants to wants to practice in CA?


It's all personal preference but granted MVP down there are no schools even close to the West, if you are DEAD-SET on CA, then take UCLA/USC+$$$. Lower T14 schools' reach to the West coast is probably equivalent or even slightly worse to that of UCLA and USC.

Fark-o-vision
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby Fark-o-vision » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:09 am

rad law wrote:
bk1 wrote:However, if you want an actual safe option, I would take something like UCD/UCH/UCI or the like with a full tuition ride if you can haggle for it. This does hurt your chances for biglaw, but it is magnitudes less risky than UCLA at sticker.


Agree with this.

Nothing is "safe" for California biglaw. The state economy is horrible. Sticker at UCLA is not a great idea.

I also wouldn't assume you will be top 30%, if anything assume you will be around median and act on that.


This cannot be repeated enough to 0Ls.


Lol at California "econonmy is horrible" talk. California as a state has severe budget shortfalls, and our blue collar sector is hurting to discover a new outlet. However, the relative strength of our economy continues to float this country, and has for decades. Judgments of our economy are based, usually, on uninformed readings of our budget shortfalls.

Edit for good article explaining some of the issues.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-tr ... genumber=1

Also, not particularly involved in legal specific industry, but why would it be different than the state at large?

nonprofit-prophet
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:38 am

Fark-o-vision wrote:
rad law wrote:
bk1 wrote:However, if you want an actual safe option, I would take something like UCD/UCH/UCI or the like with a full tuition ride if you can haggle for it. This does hurt your chances for biglaw, but it is magnitudes less risky than UCLA at sticker.


Agree with this.

Nothing is "safe" for California biglaw. The state economy is horrible. Sticker at UCLA is not a great idea.

I also wouldn't assume you will be top 30%, if anything assume you will be around median and act on that.


This cannot be repeated enough to 0Ls.


Lol at California "econonmy is horrible" talk. California as a state has severe budget shortfalls, and our blue collar sector is hurting to discover a new outlet. However, the relative strength of our economy continues to float this country, and has for decades. Judgments of our economy are based, usually, on uninformed readings of our budget shortfalls.

Edit for good article explaining some of the issues.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-tr ... genumber=1

Also, not particularly involved in legal specific industry, but why would it be different than the state at large?



Lol at this oversimplification. California has lost more millionaires than any other state (through a combination of families moving to a different state and families losing their money). California had more people of all tax brackets move out of the state than any other state. The economy sucks and smart people with the means to leave want out. Additionally, you can't disregard budget shortfalls that are large enough to require hiring freezes. If law schools lose a potential sector to hire grads it will most certainly affect a student body's ability to find work.

Fark-o-vision
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby Fark-o-vision » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:10 am

nonprofit-prophet wrote:
Fark-o-vision wrote:
rad law wrote:
bk1 wrote:However, if you want an actual safe option, I would take something like UCD/UCH/UCI or the like with a full tuition ride if you can haggle for it. This does hurt your chances for biglaw, but it is magnitudes less risky than UCLA at sticker.


Agree with this.

Nothing is "safe" for California biglaw. The state economy is horrible. Sticker at UCLA is not a great idea.

I also wouldn't assume you will be top 30%, if anything assume you will be around median and act on that.


This cannot be repeated enough to 0Ls.



Lol at California "econonmy is horrible" talk. California as a state has severe budget shortfalls, and our blue collar sector is hurting to discover a new outlet. However, the relative strength of our economy continues to float this country, and has for decades. Judgments of our economy are based, usually, on uninformed readings of our budget shortfalls.

Edit for good article explaining some of the issues.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-tr ... genumber=1

Also, not particularly involved in legal specific industry, but why would it be different than the state at large?



Lol at this oversimplification. California has lost more millionaires than any other state (through a combination of families moving to a different state and families losing their money). California had more people of all tax brackets move out of the state than any other state. The economy sucks and smart people with the means to leave want out. Additionally, you can't disregard budget shortfalls that are large enough to require hiring freezes. If law schools lose a potential sector to hire grads it will most certainly affect a student body's ability to find work.


Are you lol'ing yourself? I don't get it. Certainly you have to realize your usage of empirical data is worthy only of the worst type of journalist. assuming your data is correct (and I can assure you, it isn't) you have to ask yourself, where do the millionaires live? Where are they going? California had--by a wide margin--the largest number of folks whose personal value could be estimated at a million plus, but most of the loses can be attributed to devaluation of real estate, which represents no real money loss. For instance, my parents had a couple million dollars worth of properties they owned throughout the valley here. their assets have taken a sixty percent or so hit, but their ability to generate revenue (through rental fees) have only been lowered by a couple hundred dollars a property. Although asset devaluation should be taken seriously, to act like it's the end all be all is ridiculous, reductive, non-critical thinking. The economic structure and backbone of California are as sound as ever. If things get too out of hand, we'll just just let your Midwest wither up and die.

nonprofit-prophet
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:25 am

I'm at work now, so I can't really give this a full response. I will say this: the data is sound and is cited by numerous respected DC think tanks, (I work in one). The millionaires, in part, are going to Texas, the largest recipient of Californians looking for new homes. Compared to the national average, california's skilled and professional workers have among the highest levels of unemployment. To pretend that California is doing well is certainly laughable

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bk1
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby bk1 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:34 pm

hokie wrote:It's all personal preference but granted MVP down there are no schools even close to the West, if you are DEAD-SET on CA, then take UCLA/USC+$$$. Lower T14 schools' reach to the West coast is probably equivalent or even slightly worse to that of UCLA and USC.


If you are a CA resident or something similar then I see no problem with going to a lower T14 over UCLA/USC considering you have ties and a lot of CA firms interview at those schools anyway (you could probably even snag some mass mail interviews from what I've read).

Granted, UCLA/USC+$$$ is better than lower T14 for CA. The problem is, you aren't necessarily guaranteed UCLA/USC with money even if you can get a lower T14 or two. As I said earlier, if you're deadset on CA then UCD/UCH/UCI/etc with full tuition scholarship is probably better than a small scholly at UCLA/USC.

BeautifulSW
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby BeautifulSW » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:26 pm

Stating the obvious:

ITE, if I were a young Californian lusting after a Big Law job or maybe federal civil service, there is one, and ONLY one, school I'd attend at sticker: Stanford. Period.

Stating the far-from-obvious (and my own, very controversial opinion):

If I were a middle-aged Californian career-changer with no thought of ever leaving the Golden State but an unquenchable thirst for the glory and prestige of attorneyhood, I'd sign up for the four year part-time evening program at one of the non-ABA approved, California Bar accredited law schools and save myself about $150,000 in student loans.

Since the UC system now charges as much as the private ABA schools do, there's really no middle ground.

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bk1
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby bk1 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:50 pm

BeautifulSW wrote:Since the UC system now charges as much as the private ABA schools do, there's really no middle ground.


Scholarships, namely ones at or close to full tuition?

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IgosduIkana
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby IgosduIkana » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:01 pm

WOW :shock: ...thanks for the info everybody! I think I will let all this information marinate for a little while. I'm a sophomore now, so I will definitely be thinking about it - CA is attractive, but it I'm reevaluate my interest in UCLA. People here know a lot more than the folks on College Confidential...

cornellbeez
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby cornellbeez » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:37 pm

The California legal markets (LA and SF) are in much worse shape than most other markets. I would not attend UCLA, even with a half scholarship, if I wanted biglaw in California because there's no way I'd risk opportunity costs + half tuition on being top 20%. (Top 30% is probably not good enough, by the way.)

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FlanAl
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby FlanAl » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:44 pm

from what i've heard davis and hastings pretty much do not give out full rides or decent scholarship money period. i think they have plenty of people with their numbers who want california bad enough to go there at sticker that they really have no incentive to attract the t-14 crowd.

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bk1
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby bk1 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:46 pm

FlanAl wrote:from what i've heard davis and hastings pretty much do not give out full rides or decent scholarship money period. i think they have plenty of people with their numbers who want california bad enough to go there at sticker that they really have no incentive to attract the t-14 crowd.


I've heard this and I think it is true that UCH/UCD are pretty stingy. I have heard of at least one person getting a full ride from one of them though.

BeautifulSW
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby BeautifulSW » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:49 pm

I was talking in terms of paying sticker wherever in California one went. A very substantial scholarship to, say, Pepperdine might make going there worthwhile, of course.

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bk1
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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby bk1 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:51 pm

BeautifulSW wrote:I was talking in terms of paying sticker wherever in California one went. A very substantial scholarship to, say, Pepperdine might make going there worthwhile, of course.


You're creating a false dichotomy that doesn't really need to be compared.

Somebody who would be forced to pay sticker at UCLA wouldn't be paying sticker at weaker schools.

Somebody who would be forced to pay sticker at UCD/UCH wouldn't get into better schools and wouldn't be paying sticker at worse schools.

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Re: UCLA - safe enough school to attend job-wise?

Postby smokeylarue » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:29 pm

USC is an option too if you are dead set on Biglaw in California. They actually place better than UCLA according to the NLJ 250 placement rankings. Something to consider.




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