OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
bedefan
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:39 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby bedefan » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:33 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
bedefan wrote:Looking for some sage advice...

I'm in the bizarre situation of choosing between 2 "full rides": Michigan (a "Darrow") and Harvard (an "OMG you're so poor").

My wife and I are, in the words of Beatrix Potter, "improvident and cheerful." I'm an artist who's paid the bills by adjuncting (have an MFA) and working with poor people, including at a legal services org for 3 years. Got two kids aged 3 & 1, want to end up with four to seven total and wife is 30, so we need to stay, ahem, relatively busy. No assets & no debt. I'm 110% going into public interest law and will probably be pulling in well below 50k when I start working. My wife won't be working while I'm in LS so we'll still end up with a ton of debt (90k Mich v. 180k H-bomb) from cost of living.

Here's the deal: Basically the choice is:
more-liquid-cash-during-LS-with-more-flexibility-about-repaying-it-and-greater-career-flexibility (Harvard)
versus
less-debt-and-a-more-enjoyable-town-to-live-in-for-three-years-plus-a-chiller-LS-atmosphere (Michigan)

Other factors: we want to settle somewhere in the Upper Midwest or Great Plains, not in a big city. Also I do like teaching and could see myself teaching legal writing at some point down the road.

Any ideas?


The answer is always Harvard. (Except when it's Yale.)

But seriously. UMich will give you great prospects, especially midwest, but if you really do want academia, HLS does have a significant advantage. As for debt, if you are dead-set on staying in PI, it doesn't really matter what your total is because it'll all go away in 10 years.

4 to 7 kids?? As the posessor of a uterus myself, I feel for your wife. (Not to mention that feeding and clothing that many people on a PI salary sounds less than fun.)


Between you and me, I think she'll call it quits at 4. But she's still full of the fire right now, and I love kids, so why not.

And feeding and clothing a ton of em on a PI salary, yeah, it might be a drag. We'll see how it goes. Our first year married we spent $7000... All year. Not a typo. We've mellowed a bit and with 2 kids we spent 25k in a year. We'll come up with extra money if we need it--she likes working sometimes, and so far I've been able to sell work and/or get grants when pressed.

User avatar
rinkrat19
Posts: 13918
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:35 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby rinkrat19 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:36 pm

bedefan wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
bedefan wrote:Looking for some sage advice...

I'm in the bizarre situation of choosing between 2 "full rides": Michigan (a "Darrow") and Harvard (an "OMG you're so poor").

My wife and I are, in the words of Beatrix Potter, "improvident and cheerful." I'm an artist who's paid the bills by adjuncting (have an MFA) and working with poor people, including at a legal services org for 3 years. Got two kids aged 3 & 1, want to end up with four to seven total and wife is 30, so we need to stay, ahem, relatively busy. No assets & no debt. I'm 110% going into public interest law and will probably be pulling in well below 50k when I start working. My wife won't be working while I'm in LS so we'll still end up with a ton of debt (90k Mich v. 180k H-bomb) from cost of living.

Here's the deal: Basically the choice is:
more-liquid-cash-during-LS-with-more-flexibility-about-repaying-it-and-greater-career-flexibility (Harvard)
versus
less-debt-and-a-more-enjoyable-town-to-live-in-for-three-years-plus-a-chiller-LS-atmosphere (Michigan)

Other factors: we want to settle somewhere in the Upper Midwest or Great Plains, not in a big city. Also I do like teaching and could see myself teaching legal writing at some point down the road.

Any ideas?


The answer is always Harvard. (Except when it's Yale.)

But seriously. UMich will give you great prospects, especially midwest, but if you really do want academia, HLS does have a significant advantage. As for debt, if you are dead-set on staying in PI, it doesn't really matter what your total is because it'll all go away in 10 years.

4 to 7 kids?? As the posessor of a uterus myself, I feel for your wife. (Not to mention that feeding and clothing that many people on a PI salary sounds less than fun.)


Between you and me, I think she'll call it quits at 4. But she's still full of the fire right now, and I love kids, so why not.

And feeding and clothing a ton of em on a PI salary, yeah, it might be a drag. We'll see how it goes. Our first year married we spent $7000... All year. Not a typo. We've mellowed a bit and with 2 kids we spent 25k in a year. We'll come up with extra money if we need it--she likes working sometimes, and so far I've been able to sell work and/or get grants when pressed.


Whew! I was afraid Harvard was going to have a Duggar family on their hands. You sound quite sane, actually. :wink:

User avatar
bedefan
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:39 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby bedefan » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:37 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
firemed wrote:Also... why the hell do you want 7 kids? :lol: :lol:


He's pitching a reality show to TLC?

As an only child, I would've liked one sibling to play with when the grownups were busy. Any more than that just seemed excessive.


Now that'd be a way to make some extra cash...

It's actually the wife who's the big driver of that. We're both from big families. I had about 500 siblings and it was nice to be able to disappear. Plus you learn to make do (due?) on your own when there's so many kids the grownups can't give you all the helicopter treatment.

User avatar
bedefan
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:39 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby bedefan » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:45 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
bedefan wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
bedefan wrote:Looking for some sage advice...

I'm in the bizarre situation of choosing between 2 "full rides": Michigan (a "Darrow") and Harvard (an "OMG you're so poor").

My wife and I are, in the words of Beatrix Potter, "improvident and cheerful." I'm an artist who's paid the bills by adjuncting (have an MFA) and working with poor people, including at a legal services org for 3 years. Got two kids aged 3 & 1, want to end up with four to seven total and wife is 30, so we need to stay, ahem, relatively busy. No assets & no debt. I'm 110% going into public interest law and will probably be pulling in well below 50k when I start working. My wife won't be working while I'm in LS so we'll still end up with a ton of debt (90k Mich v. 180k H-bomb) from cost of living.

Here's the deal: Basically the choice is:
more-liquid-cash-during-LS-with-more-flexibility-about-repaying-it-and-greater-career-flexibility (Harvard)
versus
less-debt-and-a-more-enjoyable-town-to-live-in-for-three-years-plus-a-chiller-LS-atmosphere (Michigan)

Other factors: we want to settle somewhere in the Upper Midwest or Great Plains, not in a big city. Also I do like teaching and could see myself teaching legal writing at some point down the road.

Any ideas?


The answer is always Harvard. (Except when it's Yale.)

But seriously. UMich will give you great prospects, especially midwest, but if you really do want academia, HLS does have a significant advantage. As for debt, if you are dead-set on staying in PI, it doesn't really matter what your total is because it'll all go away in 10 years.

4 to 7 kids?? As the posessor of a uterus myself, I feel for your wife. (Not to mention that feeding and clothing that many people on a PI salary sounds less than fun.)


Between you and me, I think she'll call it quits at 4. But she's still full of the fire right now, and I love kids, so why not.

And feeding and clothing a ton of em on a PI salary, yeah, it might be a drag. We'll see how it goes. Our first year married we spent $7000... All year. Not a typo. We've mellowed a bit and with 2 kids we spent 25k in a year. We'll come up with extra money if we need it--she likes working sometimes, and so far I've been able to sell work and/or get grants when pressed.


Whew! I was afraid Harvard was going to have a Duggar family on their hands. You sound quite sane, actually. :wink:


No, 19 kids would drive even me crazy I think. And I'd worry about my wife's safety.

I'm curious though about what you said about HLS being 10x better than Mich for academia. I'm wondering if that'd really be the case in my situation. I should say I don't think I'll get into legal scholarship much. I like teaching more practical, hands-on things (like art and creative writing), so what I'm imagining is practicing in PI for several years, then trying to transition into teaching legal writing and/or being clinical faculty.

I've just been kind of assuming that M-Law wouldn't be at a big disadvantage v. Harvard if I'm going for that kind of academic position at down the line. Is that incorrect? What about if I'm talking about teaching at a T2 school (like Kansas or Mizzou or something)?

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11725
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby kalvano » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:56 pm

Harvard is the correct answer no matter what kind of academia you want.

texaslawyer
Posts: 160
Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:02 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby texaslawyer » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:01 pm

kalvano wrote:Harvard is the correct answer no matter what kind of academia you want.


I'll second that ! Unless it's Yale or Stanford.

firemed
Posts: 1195
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:36 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:06 pm

texaslawyer wrote:
kalvano wrote:Harvard is the correct answer no matter what kind of academia you want.


I'll second that ! Unless it's Yale or Stanford.



I'll third that.

Also, I agree you sound quite sane. A shame I didn't have the numbers for harvard so the wife and I could meet you. She was considering an MFA, but now is gonna go to PA school so that when I go into PI we will still be able to go on international vacations. Also, at 35-40 hours a week for $90K a year, she should be able to do some art on the side.


ETA: To explain: If you look at any law school (go pick 9 at random from the top 3 tiers) you will see that at least 50% if not 75% of their professors came from the Top 5 law schools in this country... and the other 25-50% came from either their school, or from one of the other T14. Yale is, hands down, the school for academics... but H and S also produce huge numbers of profs.

ArghItsBlarg
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:21 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby ArghItsBlarg » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:31 pm

I'll have to agree that Harvard would be the (in my opinion) wiser of your two choices. If you have any aspirations toward academia, or clerking, or really any large firm or corporate jobs with which you don't currently have a relationship, a degree from Harvard is going to blow a Michigan degree out of the water. It's certainly not to say that Michigan offers a substandard product or has a poor reputation, but Harvard's cache in the legal world seems to simply be a tier unto itself (well, with Yale and Stanford).

With regard to myself, I've laidoutmy situation previously in greater detail, but I work full time, provide the lion's share of our income and carry our health insurance. My wife works part time because her industry (publishing) is crashing and PT or contract work is all the work she's been able to find in that industry after her old firm went belly up two years ago. We live about 30 miles north of Chicago, and I commute into the heart of it (where both of my schools are) on a daily basis already.

Essentially, in order to go to NU, we're going to have to get our income from loans until she can find a FT job. NU's health insurance isn't bad for the student, but to cover a spouse and two kids costs about $12k/year in PREMIUMS. I'm looking into alternate options for health insurance, as that's the scariest part right now. Just dropping the kids from the NU plan will save $6/year in premiums.

Working FT and going to school PT is hardcore. It's two fulltime jobs, essentially. I'm really worried about not seeing my kids for the next four years if I go PT.

Kent has a good reputation amongst firms in Chicago, but outside of Chicago (for example, in the state in which our families live) it doesn't carry much sway, unlike NU, who opens doors across the US.

delusional
Posts: 1190
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:57 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby delusional » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:04 pm

bedefan wrote:
rinkrat19 wrote:
firemed wrote:Also... why the hell do you want 7 kids? :lol: :lol:


He's pitching a reality show to TLC?

As an only child, I would've liked one sibling to play with when the grownups were busy. Any more than that just seemed excessive.


Now that'd be a way to make some extra cash...

It's actually the wife who's the big driver of that. We're both from big families. I had about 500 siblings and it was nice to be able to disappear. Plus you learn to make do (due?) on your own when there's so many kids the grownups can't give you all the helicopter treatment.


I'm one of ten, and I'd be happy with the two I have now. Let's see if my wife lets me get away with it.

What kind of need we talkin to get aid from Harvard? Their stats don't look too promising - but if I qualify for significant aid, I might think of moving to Boston.

User avatar
bedefan
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:39 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby bedefan » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:12 pm

firemed wrote:
texaslawyer wrote:
kalvano wrote:Harvard is the correct answer no matter what kind of academia you want.


I'll second that ! Unless it's Yale or Stanford.



I'll third that.

Also, I agree you sound quite sane. A shame I didn't have the numbers for harvard so the wife and I could meet you. She was considering an MFA, but now is gonna go to PA school so that when I go into PI we will still be able to go on international vacations. Also, at 35-40 hours a week for $90K a year, she should be able to do some art on the side.


ETA: To explain: If you look at any law school (go pick 9 at random from the top 3 tiers) you will see that at least 50% if not 75% of their professors came from the Top 5 law schools in this country... and the other 25-50% came from either their school, or from one of the other T14. Yale is, hands down, the school for academics... but H and S also produce huge numbers of profs.


Yeah, I just assume I won't meet very many artsy fartsy types while I'm in LS, but I suspect there are always a few lurking... I'm sure you and your wife will do all right on that front. Most LS's are in college towns or major cities, as are most artists.

You know I started doing your suggested exercise, checked the faculty at KU, Mizzou, and Drake--midwest schools with strong regional presences, the kind of place where I'd like to teach. And it seemed that each school had a particular connection with one of the T14, which accounted for maybe 1/10 to 1/5 of the professors: at Mizzou seemed to have a lot of SLS grads, at Drake it was NYU grads, and at KU it was Michigan. There are HLS grads teaching at these places, but not way more than, say, Cornell grads. At least in this smaller sample size it seemed to be broken into 3rds: about a third of the professors were from T14 schools; a third from the LS in question; and about a third from regional T1 schools.

Now maybe it's just that most T14 grads don't want to teach at Mizzou, even less HLS grads... In which case going to HLS would give me an advantage over another candidate from Michigan. But just from looking at this I still kinda doubt HLS is so much better than Mich in academic placement in clinical and legal writing positions at T2 and lower law schools.

Not to doubt the wisdom of the forum or anything in this respect... But we are mostly here because we don't actually know the lay of the land, right?

firemed
Posts: 1195
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:36 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:30 pm

ArghItsBlarg wrote:I'll have to agree that Harvard would be the (in my opinion) wiser of your two choices. If you have any aspirations toward academia, or clerking, or really any large firm or corporate jobs with which you don't currently have a relationship, a degree from Harvard is going to blow a Michigan degree out of the water. It's certainly not to say that Michigan offers a substandard product or has a poor reputation, but Harvard's cache in the legal world seems to simply be a tier unto itself (well, with Yale and Stanford).

With regard to myself, I've laidoutmy situation previously in greater detail, but I work full time, provide the lion's share of our income and carry our health insurance. My wife works part time because her industry (publishing) is crashing and PT or contract work is all the work she's been able to find in that industry after her old firm went belly up two years ago. We live about 30 miles north of Chicago, and I commute into the heart of it (where both of my schools are) on a daily basis already.

Essentially, in order to go to NU, we're going to have to get our income from loans until she can find a FT job. NU's health insurance isn't bad for the student, but to cover a spouse and two kids costs about $12k/year in PREMIUMS. I'm looking into alternate options for health insurance, as that's the scariest part right now. Just dropping the kids from the NU plan will save $6/year in premiums.

Working FT and going to school PT is hardcore. It's two fulltime jobs, essentially. I'm really worried about not seeing my kids for the next four years if I go PT.

Kent has a good reputation amongst firms in Chicago, but outside of Chicago (for example, in the state in which our families live) it doesn't carry much sway, unlike NU, who opens doors across the US.



Dude. I would search around for a plan. Some companies offer low income plans for kids (I think it is a tax write off for them, or they get some medicaid money or something). You can get a plan here in NM that is not bad to cover two adults and kids for $450 a month. It has $25/$35 co-pays for ppp/specialty, $150 copay for ER, and the deductible for hospitalization is only a grand. It isn't the best plan, but it will cover you for your kids needs and any emergencies that arise.

And I still say NU. Even if you have to pay $24K in insurance. Still a better deal IMO... more time with family, better job prospects. Also, has your wife considered going back to school instead of getting a job?

User avatar
bedefan
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:39 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby bedefan » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:32 pm

bedefan wrote:
firemed wrote:
texaslawyer wrote:
kalvano wrote:Harvard is the correct answer no matter what kind of academia you want.


I'll second that ! Unless it's Yale or Stanford.



I'll third that.

Also, I agree you sound quite sane. A shame I didn't have the numbers for harvard so the wife and I could meet you. She was considering an MFA, but now is gonna go to PA school so that when I go into PI we will still be able to go on international vacations. Also, at 35-40 hours a week for $90K a year, she should be able to do some art on the side.


ETA: To explain: If you look at any law school (go pick 9 at random from the top 3 tiers) you will see that at least 50% if not 75% of their professors came from the Top 5 law schools in this country... and the other 25-50% came from either their school, or from one of the other T14. Yale is, hands down, the school for academics... but H and S also produce huge numbers of profs.


Yeah, I just assume I won't meet very many artsy fartsy types while I'm in LS, but I suspect there are always a few lurking... I'm sure you and your wife will do all right on that front. Most LS's are in college towns or major cities, as are most artists.

You know I started doing your suggested exercise, checked the faculty at KU, Mizzou, and Drake--midwest schools with strong regional presences, the kind of place where I'd like to teach. And it seemed that each school had a particular connection with one of the T14, which accounted for maybe 1/10 to 1/5 of the professors: at Mizzou seemed to have a lot of SLS grads, at Drake it was NYU grads, and at KU it was Michigan. There are HLS grads teaching at these places, but not way more than, say, Cornell grads. At least in this smaller sample size it seemed to be broken into 3rds: about a third of the professors were from T14 schools; a third from the LS in question; and about a third from regional T1 schools.

Now maybe it's just that most T14 grads don't want to teach at Mizzou, even less HLS grads... In which case going to HLS would give me an advantage over another candidate from Michigan. But just from looking at this I still kinda doubt HLS is so much better than Mich in academic placement in clinical and legal writing positions at T2 and lower law schools.

Not to doubt the wisdom of the forum or anything in this respect... But we are mostly here because we don't actually know the lay of the land, right?


There's always medicaid for kids. We went on it for a little while a few years back and it's still the best coverage we've ever had... At a monthly cost of zero dollars.

Quality of coverage does vary state to state, though.

If you have no income, you should qualify.

firemed
Posts: 1195
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:36 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:33 pm

bedefan wrote:Not to doubt the wisdom of the forum or anything in this respect... But we are mostly here because we don't actually know the lay of the land, right?


True enough. But people who actually attend Harvard ARE on this website. Hands down (and one of them transferred from a T20) all of them say that the opportunities and advantages available at Harvard are like nothing you will ever experience anywhere else. Period.

Think of it this way: By going to Harvard Law you will become, by default, one of the top 5% most important people in the world. You can take that power, and use it for good... or you can let some 22 year old take it and hope they do instead.

User avatar
bedefan
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:39 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby bedefan » Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:10 pm

firemed wrote:
bedefan wrote:Not to doubt the wisdom of the forum or anything in this respect... But we are mostly here because we don't actually know the lay of the land, right?


True enough. But people who actually attend Harvard ARE on this website. Hands down (and one of them transferred from a T20) all of them say that the opportunities and advantages available at Harvard are like nothing you will ever experience anywhere else. Period.

Think of it this way: By going to Harvard Law you will become, by default, one of the top 5% most important people in the world. You can take that power, and use it for good... or you can let some 22 year old take it and hope they do instead.


Never thought of it that way, and I'm not sure if I should, but I gotta say that's a compelling thought.

User avatar
citykitty
Posts: 465
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 6:03 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby citykitty » Fri Mar 25, 2011 8:30 pm

WRT Health Insurance in school: My husband is finishing up med school next month. We've had to cover our own health insurance for 4 years. It has sucked. The kids couldn't go on medicaid in our state unless we removed them from our insurance for 6 months. Well, we weren't willing to risk that. We ended up going with a high deductible plan. We paid about $6K in premiums annually. Everyone gets well visits covered at 100%. We paid about 2/3 the cost of an office visit (bc that seems to be the insurance co's negotiated rate), but after we met the deductible we were covered 100%. So our max OOP would have been about $16K/yr. Yes, that's a lot, but that was the absolute maximum we would have had to pay. Somebody could get cancer and we'd only owe $16K/yr. It was worth it for us.

groberts
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:09 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby groberts » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:32 pm

citykitty wrote:WRT Health Insurance in school: My husband is finishing up med school next month. We've had to cover our own health insurance for 4 years. It has sucked. The kids couldn't go on medicaid in our state unless we removed them from our insurance for 6 months. Well, we weren't willing to risk that. We ended up going with a high deductible plan. We paid about $6K in premiums annually. Everyone gets well visits covered at 100%. We paid about 2/3 the cost of an office visit (bc that seems to be the insurance co's negotiated rate), but after we met the deductible we were covered 100%. So our max OOP would have been about $16K/yr. Yes, that's a lot, but that was the absolute maximum we would have had to pay. Somebody could get cancer and we'd only owe $16K/yr. It was worth it for us.


Similar situation here. I'm self-employed and my husband's job only covers him. The kids and I are on a high-deductible plan that's just under $300/month with a $15K deductible. I put $450/month into a tax-free Health Savings Account and pay all the bills out of there. Unless it's a wild year, the account generally builds rather than gets spent down, so for us, for now, it's a much better deal than paying $1000/mo to be on my husband's plan. I had to do that while preggers because you never know what could happen in the delivery room, but as soon as I could, I switched back.

groberts
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:09 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby groberts » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:34 pm

texaslawyer wrote:
kalvano wrote:Harvard is the correct answer no matter what kind of academia you want.


I'll second that ! Unless it's Yale or Stanford.


I'll add to the Harvard chorus. Imagine the rest of your life is a series of doors, which represent opportunities you could take. The Michigan doors are solid and there are several of them. The Harvard doors are a combination of solid and life-changing, and there are a lot of them. You just can't go wrong with Harvard.

User avatar
Leira7905
Posts: 384
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:42 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Leira7905 » Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:37 pm

bedefan wrote:Between you and me, I think she'll call it quits at 4. But she's still full of the fire right now, and I love kids, so why not.

And feeding and clothing a ton of em on a PI salary, yeah, it might be a drag. We'll see how it goes. Our first year married we spent $7000... All year. Not a typo. We've mellowed a bit and with 2 kids we spent 25k in a year. We'll come up with extra money if we need it--she likes working sometimes, and so far I've been able to sell work and/or get grants when pressed.

:shock: Whaaaaaaa?????? HOW?!?!?

Skyhook
Posts: 322
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:30 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Skyhook » Sat Mar 26, 2011 12:20 pm

Lawst wrote:OK, so granted, I'm childless and single (but old-un, turning 38 soonish), but I wouldn't turn down a T-14 Ivy. Yeah, Ithaca sounds incredibly boring, but we're not going to have much free time in law school anyway, and maybe you'll have fewer distractions. Good luck to you!


firemed wrote:I would go to Ithaca too if you had even an inkling that your wife might be able to be employed. Otherwise I would stay in Florida.


I have decided on Cornell!
I couldn't turn down the T14-Ivy, everything about it says fantastic opportunities way above those of UF.
Given the places I've lived in, I'm always up for having new experiences. Every location has + and -.
Fewer distractions is better, but I think there are enough things to do in my down time anyway.

Pretty confident my wife will find work, but for the first semester I'll be up there by myself.

Thanks for the advice!

firemed
Posts: 1195
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:36 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:03 pm

Skyhook wrote:
I have decided on Cornell!
I couldn't turn down the T14-Ivy, everything about it says fantastic opportunities way above those of UF.
Given the places I've lived in, I'm always up for having new experiences. Every location has + and -.
Fewer distractions is better, but I think there are enough things to do in my down time anyway.

Pretty confident my wife will find work, but for the first semester I'll be up there by myself.

Thanks for the advice!



Congrats! Good luck and enjoy!

ArghItsBlarg
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:21 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby ArghItsBlarg » Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:56 pm

bedefan wrote:
firemed wrote:
texaslawyer wrote:
kalvano wrote:Harvard is the correct answer no matter what kind of academia you want.


I'll second that ! Unless it's Yale or Stanford.



I'll third that.

Also, I agree you sound quite sane. A shame I didn't have the numbers for harvard so the wife and I could meet you. She was considering an MFA, but now is gonna go to PA school so that when I go into PI we will still be able to go on international vacations. Also, at 35-40 hours a week for $90K a year, she should be able to do some art on the side.


ETA: To explain: If you look at any law school (go pick 9 at random from the top 3 tiers) you will see that at least 50% if not 75% of their professors came from the Top 5 law schools in this country... and the other 25-50% came from either their school, or from one of the other T14. Yale is, hands down, the school for academics... but H and S also produce huge numbers of profs.


Yeah, I just assume I won't meet very many artsy fartsy types while I'm in LS, but I suspect there are always a few lurking... I'm sure you and your wife will do all right on that front. Most LS's are in college towns or major cities, as are most artists.

You know I started doing your suggested exercise, checked the faculty at KU, Mizzou, and Drake--midwest schools with strong regional presences, the kind of place where I'd like to teach. And it seemed that each school had a particular connection with one of the T14, which accounted for maybe 1/10 to 1/5 of the professors: at Mizzou seemed to have a lot of SLS grads, at Drake it was NYU grads, and at KU it was Michigan. There are HLS grads teaching at these places, but not way more than, say, Cornell grads. At least in this smaller sample size it seemed to be broken into 3rds: about a third of the professors were from T14 schools; a third from the LS in question; and about a third from regional T1 schools.

Now maybe it's just that most T14 grads don't want to teach at Mizzou, even less HLS grads... In which case going to HLS would give me an advantage over another candidate from Michigan. But just from looking at this I still kinda doubt HLS is so much better than Mich in academic placement in clinical and legal writing positions at T2 and lower law schools.

Not to doubt the wisdom of the forum or anything in this respect... But we are mostly here because we don't actually know the lay of the land, right?


I'm not a midwest professor, but I imagine the above-bolded sentence is fact. It's far more likely that HLS isn't over-represented in T2 and lower because most HLS grads who are interested in academia apply to and are picked up by T1's. In the prestige-based industry that is law, HLS will be a trumping factor over any other school, all other things equal. Often other things not being equal, in fact. Schools and firms love to brag that they have a Harvard-educated attorney on staff and charge premiums as a result.


We're continuing to take a hard look at how we could afford to lose my salary, and I've been informed that my understanding of ICHIP is wrong, so I'm looking into that as a replacement for our health insurance. It looks expensive, frankly, but if I can go on NU's insurance, my wife can go on ICHIP and my kids can go on Medicaid, it's feasible. As for the money, loans loans loans. We're really debt-averse, but the more we look (and get advice from lawyers and those in the know) the more the risk seems worth the reward to go to NU, especially for only two years.

I made a mistake, however. I showed my wife a thread which has some people discussing how much harder T2 grads have it in Chicago compared to T14, and now she doesn't want me to go to law school at all!

firemed
Posts: 1195
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:36 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:14 am

ArghItsBlarg wrote:I made a mistake, however. I showed my wife a thread which has some people discussing how much harder T2 grads have it in Chicago compared to T14, and now she doesn't want me to go to law school at all!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

You explained that NU was T14 right?

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby paratactical » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:16 am

Question for y'all - I'm not quite 30 yet, but I'm definitely thinking about delaying law school until after that milestone. What are your biggest fears that come with having waited to go back to school?

User avatar
homestyle28
Posts: 2314
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:48 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby homestyle28 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:23 am

paratactical wrote:Question for y'all - I'm not quite 30 yet, but I'm definitely thinking about delaying law school until after that milestone. What are your biggest fears that come with having waited to go back to school?


That I won't be able to pick up freaky chicks like para ;)...I certainly think having a solid answer to the "why are you here" question at OCI is a concern.

User avatar
paratactical
Posts: 5961
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:06 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby paratactical » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:30 am

homestyle28 wrote:
paratactical wrote:Question for y'all - I'm not quite 30 yet, but I'm definitely thinking about delaying law school until after that milestone. What are your biggest fears that come with having waited to go back to school?


That I won't be able to pick up freaky chicks like para ;)...I certainly think having a solid answer to the "why are you here" question at OCI is a concern.

Yeah, my answer will be pretty simple - I wanted to work and enjoy my 20s and do a bit of figuring things out without a huge debt and a totally insane workload, but as I'm getting older, I want more financial security and working in the industry for the 7+ years I'll have been at law firms prior to school has confirmed for me that I can handle the hours and the work.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: echonov, PrezRand, smile0751 and 4 guests