OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

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Sinra
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Sinra » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:38 pm

kch3684 wrote:Granted this was from one school, and I can still take out gradplus loans but the Federal Subsided (which I though were up to $20,000) were only $8,500
I'm going to talk to the financial aid people but I wanted to know if anyone had already dealt with this.

Sinra wrote:The EFC is only used towards subsidized loan amount. You'll get loans up to the full COA through grad plus and unsubsidized loans (20500 limit I believe all together). But you get gradplus loans for the remainder amount (COA-20500). You can get loans for all of it. And EFC is derived using some arcane formula from the 60s that does not take into account geographical cost of living etc. Largely meaningless.


Is there a way of reducing the EFC on the Fsafa? I have no idea how the hell they expect me to contribute that much and next year will be bad too since I'm working till August then renting out my house so will still have income and a house



You're right on the numbers. I think I was a bit off. There's no way to adjust your EFC. It is what it is. But don't worry about it. You'll be able to get loans for the full amount (minus any schollys).

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ahduth
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby ahduth » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:47 pm

kalvano wrote:
ahduth wrote:Should I be practicing academic writing? People keeping asking what they should read before law school, but I'm far more concerned about the writing. I've been writing corporate emails and powerpoints for a long while now. The whole style is different - you take an 80/20 approach, no bullshit, etc. Law school seems to be all about focusing on that other 20 percent if you want to actually score out with an A. Am I reading it wrong, and should I be at all... concerned I suppose?



No. Absolutely not. "Academic writing" is in no way what you do in law school, and any practice will only hurt you. Your legal writing teacher will have a specific way they want you to write.


Cool, as long as I shouldn't be doing some expository writing to get back in the swing of things, I'll continue doing fantasy baseball research in preparation for 1L.

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fragged
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby fragged » Wed Mar 16, 2011 5:54 pm

sidhesadie wrote:
sarahh wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:After owning and now with a kid in tow, renting seems lame to me!


After watching my home drop over $150,000 in value over the course of three years, and having to deal with being a long-distance landlord during law school, and possibly having to wait several years before I can actually sell the place, just being a renter sounds like heaven.


+1000

I can honestly say, at almost 35 years old...I don't give a rip if I ever own a house again. I did not buy at the peak (way before the bubble) I did not have a crappy loan (30 year fixed, thank you) and I did not buy more house than I could afford.I never took out a HELOC.

I STILL LOST MY @SS because I HAD to move and HAD to sell, and NO ONE IS BUYING because the bazillion people who did all the above stupid stuff tanked the values for EVERYONE. I bought prebubble and my house was STILL worth 30% less than I paid for it.

Super awesome. I'm bitter. LOL



Love this thread. Same thing happened to me. I bought a modest home and ended up walking away from it because my wife got in to grad school somewhere else. Couldn't rent it because my mortgage was about $500 more than the going rental rate in my neighborhood, and couldn't short-sell it because the bank that held my 2nd refused to work with the bank that held the 1st.

I guess I could have been irresponsible and bought a $700k house and done the same thing - at least I would have had a nicer place to live in for 4 years... Once again, irresponsibility and greed FTW.

sarahh
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby sarahh » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:32 pm

It finally sunk in that I am going to law school and moving. Moving is going to be such a pain. We have a ton of stuff.

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fragged
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby fragged » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:44 pm

Does anyone have theories on going to law school part-time in order to balance school and family? I am married with 2 young children, and I really love spending time with my family.

I have been admitted to Chapman's part-time day program and Southwestern's PLEAS program, but got no scholarship money at either. On the other hand, I have gotten into some T2 schools with between $8,000 and $15,000/yr, and even a T1 school, but those are all full-time day programs.

It's becoming a nail-biter for me because I fear the job prospects out of Chapman or Southwestern will be pretty crappy.

Thoughts?

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citykitty
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby citykitty » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:41 pm

fragged wrote:Does anyone have theories on going to law school part-time in order to balance school and family? I am married with 2 young children, and I really love spending time with my family.

I have been admitted to Chapman's part-time day program and Southwestern's PLEAS program, but got no scholarship money at either. On the other hand, I have gotten into some T2 schools with between $8,000 and $15,000/yr, and even a T1 school, but those are all full-time day programs.

It's becoming a nail-biter for me because I fear the job prospects out of Chapman or Southwestern will be pretty crappy.

Thoughts?


I'm 31 with 3 kids (7, 5, and 3 months). I thought about PT programs for a couple weeks, but honestly, I don't think that helps that much. If you have a FT job and want to go to school, then they're great. But, I started thinking about it, and I realized that my older kids are still going to be at school most of the day, and the baby would need to be in childcare so that I can study. So, all it would do is cost me another year of living expenses, while I'm not making any money. For me, I think it's a better decision to go to school FT, put the older kids in some afterschool program, and the baby in daycare as if I were working 40hours/week. Then pick them all up, eat a nice dinner with them, put them to bed, and then hit the books. Weekends will be rough, but still I think it's better than that extra year of trying to pay the bills with little to no income. I've done it the last four years with my husband in med school, and that has sucked. The sooner we're all out of school the better IMO. Especially since your FT options are better schools.

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Peekay80
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Peekay80 » Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:47 pm

citykitty wrote:
fragged wrote:Does anyone have theories on going to law school part-time in order to balance school and family? I am married with 2 young children, and I really love spending time with my family.

I have been admitted to Chapman's part-time day program and Southwestern's PLEAS program, but got no scholarship money at either. On the other hand, I have gotten into some T2 schools with between $8,000 and $15,000/yr, and even a T1 school, but those are all full-time day programs.

It's becoming a nail-biter for me because I fear the job prospects out of Chapman or Southwestern will be pretty crappy.

Thoughts?


I'm 31 with 3 kids (7, 5, and 3 months). I thought about PT programs for a couple weeks, but honestly, I don't think that helps that much. If you have a FT job and want to go to school, then they're great. But, I started thinking about it, and I realized that my older kids are still going to be at school most of the day, and the baby would need to be in childcare so that I can study. So, all it would do is cost me another year of living expenses, while I'm not making any money. For me, I think it's a better decision to go to school FT, put the older kids in some afterschool program, and the baby in daycare as if I were working 40hours/week. Then pick them all up, eat a nice dinner with them, put them to bed, and then hit the books. Weekends will be rough, but still I think it's better than that extra year of trying to pay the bills with little to no income. I've done it the last four years with my husband in med school, and that has sucked. The sooner we're all out of school the better IMO. Especially since your FT options are better schools.


I am with Citykitty on this. In fact, she is like my female twin, except our youngest is 18 months instead of 3. But, back to the PT vs FT. That was a big consideration, but after considering opportunity costs and the even more hectic schedule of balancing school, work, and family, I decided to go FT only. Quicker return for me to the workforce (couldnt keep current job and school), and most importantly, I think you'll have more time with your kids doing it this way. I'm looking forward to the Friday afternoons off and some weekends every now and then for family stuff. I certainly don't get that now. So, good luck, and wish you the best.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:19 pm

I second Citykity and Peekay. One more year of working 10 hours a week is going to cost me money. Best bet is to get back out into the real world quicker. Also, working 10-20 hours a week at an internship and going to school full time, even with the stupid amount of studying you have to do for LS is going to give me more family time than my current schedule.


Also, someone was saying they only got subsidized loan offer to $8500? If it helps, that is the max for subsidized loans in grad school. All the rest your interest just keeps on going. Welcome to getting buttraped.

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nygrrrl
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby nygrrrl » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:40 pm

I opted for the PT program because I'm supporting my family and after doing the math, realized that I had to keep the FT job to make law school feasible (i.e., keep loan rates down.) I'm lucky - after 1L, I can start taking classes during the day (1L is all at night) so it should free up some kid time. Hardest part for me has been missing dinner, 4 nights/wk. Hating the 4 years - in - school thing, but the trade off is coming out virtually debt-free.

edit: also, Hai, everybody! I've been off studying and such and haven't stopped in, in far too long!

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fragged
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby fragged » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:44 pm

Fortunately I spent the last 2 years working and taking care of the kids so my wife could go to PA school. So she will have a nice salary once she graduates in August. That means I don't have to work, and won't have additional COA beyond tuition and books.

Is it pretty reasonable to assume that I can attend a full-time program, put in enough study time to do well, and have some quality time with the family? If that is the case, I am much more comfortable with full-time.

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KMaine
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby KMaine » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:47 pm

fragged wrote:Fortunately I spent the last 2 years working and taking care of the kids so my wife could go to PA school. So she will have a nice salary once she graduates in August.

Is it pretty reasonable to assume that I can attend a full-time program, put in enough study time to do well, and have some quality time with the family? If that is the case, I am much more comfortable with full-time.


I think it is reasonable. School is so much easier than work, at least for me. I drop my kids off at school each morning, have dinner with them every night, do very little work on the weekends, and still do fine grade-wise. I will not say that it is totally stress free. But I think that I (and my kids) will look back upon these years very fondly.

pkt63
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby pkt63 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:51 pm

This is pretty random and I in no way vouch for it, but I was just talking with one of my best friends who is a lawyer and just had a baby, about having babies, and she suggested that full-time law school is the best time to have a baby. That she saw it when she was in school and some of her coworkers told her they did that and it they are happy they did. So maybe kid-time won't be as bad as you might fear.

Skyhook
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Skyhook » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:21 pm

So, I've got some acceptances and really don't what the fuck to do. $$$ deadlines are looming.

Introduced myself long time ago in this thread but here is some info. (Also see here for my separate thread on this issue).

Will be 34 when I start school in August.
Live in Florida; wife has decent job; we own our home.
I've been accepted to UF, (UC Davis), GW, Cornell.
Whatever happens, my wife will have to stay in current job for at least the first year of school.

I'm not thrilled at the prospect of living away from her.
UF would mean about a 2hr drive to see her - quite doable on the weekends.
3yr COA 70k, best school in FL, but limited opportunities I feel.

GW - Was tempted, but 200k COA didn't seem justifiable, shortish flight. Wife would likely find work in DC for 2L, 3L.

Cornell - Wow. Shitty T14 cycle and this came along. 210k COA, long way away. National reputation, it's T14 man!
But, long way away, Ithaca ain't that big of a place for my wife to find work.

I have minimal ties to FL, lived here for 3 years. We've moved around a lot. Earlier discussion in this thread makes this a bad signal to firms. Perhaps if I stayed in FL it would show some commitment to an area...
Not sure on what law I want to do. IP always gets a look because of science background, but I'm not set on anything.

What do the rest you old-uns think?
Is anyone else having to live away from SO during school?

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blacklawboss
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby blacklawboss » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:28 pm

Skyhook wrote:So, I've got some acceptances and really don't what the fuck to do. $$$ deadlines are looming.

Introduced myself long time ago in this thread but here is some info. (Also see here for my separate thread on this issue).

Will be 34 when I start school in August.
Live in Florida; wife has decent job; we own our home.
I've been accepted to UF, (UC Davis), GW, Cornell.
Whatever happens, my wife will have to stay in current job for at least the first year of school.

I'm not thrilled at the prospect of living away from her.
UF would mean about a 2hr drive to see her - quite doable on the weekends.
3yr COA 70k, best school in FL, but limited opportunities I feel.

GW - Was tempted, but 200k COA didn't seem justifiable, shortish flight. Wife would likely find work in DC for 2L, 3L.

Cornell - Wow. Shitty T14 cycle and this came along. 210k COA, long way away. National reputation, it's T14 man!
But, long way away, Ithaca ain't that big of a place for my wife to find work.

I have minimal ties to FL, lived here for 3 years. We've moved around a lot. Earlier discussion in this thread makes this a bad signal to firms. Perhaps if I stayed in FL it would show some commitment to an area...
Not sure on what law I want to do. IP always gets a look because of science background, but I'm not set on anything.

What do the rest you old-uns think?
Is anyone else having to live away from SO during school?


Geez my story is a lil Similar. Live in NYC accepted to Cardozo, and waiting on Fordham. Theres a strong option for NU and Cornell is still processing (what else is new) If I got into Fordham and NU I probably would choose Fordham because I will be 36 in sept and a lot of ties to NY and wouldn't want to move that far away. Oh we have 2 daughters, own a home but pay mortgage, and she has a great job also. Do you turn down NU for Fordham? The thought of Cornell and Ithaca doesn't excite me at all. Prob would pass on it. Nothing in that city.

pkt63
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby pkt63 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:29 pm

Skyhook wrote:Is anyone else having to live away from SO during school?

most likely. Check out this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=147546

It is a tough situation. It looks like the worse the situation for your relationship, the better for your potential career. Mine's kinda like that, too, although three of my choices are T14 and the last is T2, so it makes the three a little more even. Also, I have a stronger feeling that one "fits" more. Have you visited GW or Cornell?

xyzbca
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby xyzbca » Thu Mar 17, 2011 5:47 pm

pkt63 wrote:This is pretty random and I in no way vouch for it, but I was just talking with one of my best friends who is a lawyer and just had a baby, about having babies, and she suggested that full-time law school is the best time to have a baby. That she saw it when she was in school and some of her coworkers told her they did that and it they are happy they did. So maybe kid-time won't be as bad as you might fear.



I don't qualify for this thread by about 5 months. However, I wanted to jump in on this question.

I would largely agree with your friend, but just understand that depending on your other commitments, this requires a pretty huge sacrafice by the non-student spouse.

Me = PT student, work FT during day. We had our first kid between 1E and 2E (lucked out on a summer birth). I'm not going to lie, during the school year the majority of the child rearing falls on my wife's shoulders. Once breaks roll around I pick up my fair share. We are very seriously considering having the second one sometime before graduation.

A few classmates (both FT and PT) have had kids during law school. Their happiness with the situation seems to depend heavily on how happy the non-student spouse is with the situation.

run26.2
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby run26.2 » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:07 pm

KMaine wrote:
fragged wrote:Fortunately I spent the last 2 years working and taking care of the kids so my wife could go to PA school. So she will have a nice salary once she graduates in August.

Is it pretty reasonable to assume that I can attend a full-time program, put in enough study time to do well, and have some quality time with the family? If that is the case, I am much more comfortable with full-time.


I think it is reasonable. School is so much easier than work, at least for me. I drop my kids off at school each morning, have dinner with them every night, do very little work on the weekends, and still do fine grade-wise. I will not say that it is totally stress free. But I think that I (and my kids) will look back upon these years very fondly.

What you have said is true, but of course doing well and quality time will be relative to a person's particular situation.

I know a married individual that commuted 1 hr each way to school and worked part-time at a firm and a lab and did fairly well (~top 15% or so). This same person went through some 6 study aids for each class prior to exams but still seemed to manage to spend time with the kiddos. Crazy bandwidth.

I know another married person that finished with a top-notch academic record but from what I understand had little time for family.

Me personally, I seem to take longer than others to grasp concepts, so I put in more time. It pays off, but I see my wife less than either of us would like. Nevertheless, I still try to make time for her each day (before work or at dinner time) and then either a date during the week or maybe take off the afternoon on a weekend day.

All this to say, it depends on how fast you learn, how well you want to do, and how high a priority you or your family places on time spent together. Broadly generalizing from people I have talked to, most people that are old enough to have families can do reasonably well (say top 25%) and be present so that their families don't think their strangers. To get really to the top (say inside the top 10%), you will have to sacrifice time with the family unless you are really gifted academically.

That's my 2 cents.

TL/DR - mature folks usually can find the balance that allows them to see the family and be above median by a decent bit.

Skyhook
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Skyhook » Thu Mar 17, 2011 6:34 pm

pkt63 wrote:
Skyhook wrote:Is anyone else having to live away from SO during school?

most likely. Check out this thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=147546

It is a tough situation. It looks like the worse the situation for your relationship, the better for your potential career. Mine's kinda like that, too, although three of my choices are T14 and the last is T2, so it makes the three a little more even. Also, I have a stronger feeling that one "fits" more. Have you visited GW or Cornell?


Visiting GW next Friday. Will go to Cornell either Friday or two Friday's after, probably for the ASD.
Never been to DC or upstate NY. Lived in London for a while, I do miss the buzz of a city. I can handle small-town living, but it wouldn't be my first choice.

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haus
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby haus » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:03 pm

Skyhook wrote:Visiting GW next Friday. Will go to Cornell either Friday or two Friday's after, probably for the ASD.
Never been to DC or upstate NY. Lived in London for a while, I do miss the buzz of a city. I can handle small-town living, but it wouldn't be my first choice.


I have worked in and around DC for little over a decade. While it is not the worlds most exciting city, it does have some incredible resources. The GW campus is in an urban location, with good access to the Metro. Late March/early April is often a nice time to visit DC as the weather is often mild and you start to see life in the flowering trees.

While getting a feel for the campus is of course important when looking at a law school, try to set aside a little time to wander around some of the surrounding area while you are in the city, I think that it will help give you a better feel for the area that could be your home away from home for a few years.

Happy Hunting,

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Lawst
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Lawst » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:27 pm

Skyhook wrote:So, I've got some acceptances and really don't what the fuck to do. $$$ deadlines are looming.

Introduced myself long time ago in this thread but here is some info. (Also see here for my separate thread on this issue).

Will be 34 when I start school in August.
Live in Florida; wife has decent job; we own our home.
I've been accepted to UF, (UC Davis), GW, Cornell.
Whatever happens, my wife will have to stay in current job for at least the first year of school.

I'm not thrilled at the prospect of living away from her.
UF would mean about a 2hr drive to see her - quite doable on the weekends.
3yr COA 70k, best school in FL, but limited opportunities I feel.

GW - Was tempted, but 200k COA didn't seem justifiable, shortish flight. Wife would likely find work in DC for 2L, 3L.

Cornell - Wow. Shitty T14 cycle and this came along. 210k COA, long way away. National reputation, it's T14 man!
But, long way away, Ithaca ain't that big of a place for my wife to find work.

I have minimal ties to FL, lived here for 3 years. We've moved around a lot. Earlier discussion in this thread makes this a bad signal to firms. Perhaps if I stayed in FL it would show some commitment to an area...
Not sure on what law I want to do. IP always gets a look because of science background, but I'm not set on anything.

What do the rest you old-uns think?
Is anyone else having to live away from SO during school?


OK, so granted, I'm childless and single (but old-un, turning 38 soonish), but I wouldn't turn down a T-14 Ivy. Yeah, Ithaca sounds incredibly boring, but we're not going to have much free time in law school anyway, and maybe you'll have fewer distractions. Good luck to you!

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Lawst
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Lawst » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:35 pm

blacklawboss wrote:
Geez my story is a lil Similar. Live in NYC accepted to Cardozo, and waiting on Fordham. Theres a strong option for NU and Cornell is still processing (what else is new) If I got into Fordham and NU I probably would choose Fordham because I will be 36 in sept and a lot of ties to NY and wouldn't want to move that far away. Oh we have 2 daughters, own a home but pay mortgage, and she has a great job also. Do you turn down NU for Fordham? The thought of Cornell and Ithaca doesn't excite me at all. Prob would pass on it. Nothing in that city.


Hey, I hadn't realized you got into Cardozo - congrats! I think we've applied to a lot of the same schools. Cardozo waitlisted me, and so did Fordham - crushing because they were my two realistic favorites. Good luck with Fordham! If were in your shoes, I would choose Fordham over NU if you're looking to stay in New York, rankings be damned.

sneakpreview
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby sneakpreview » Fri Mar 18, 2011 3:33 am

I'm a 1L at Willamette (over 30). Private message me if you want my take on Willamette.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:27 pm

fragged wrote:Fortunately I spent the last 2 years working and taking care of the kids so my wife could go to PA school. So she will have a nice salary once she graduates in August. That means I don't have to work, and won't have additional COA beyond tuition and books.

Is it pretty reasonable to assume that I can attend a full-time program, put in enough study time to do well, and have some quality time with the family? If that is the case, I am much more comfortable with full-time.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

When I finish LS, the wife will be going to PA school. We are opposites! :lol: :lol:

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Sat Mar 19, 2011 1:34 pm

Lawst wrote:
OK, so granted, I'm childless and single (but old-un, turning 38 soonish), but I wouldn't turn down a T-14 Ivy. Yeah, Ithaca sounds incredibly boring, but we're not going to have much free time in law school anyway, and maybe you'll have fewer distractions. Good luck to you!



I would go to Ithaca too if you had even an inkling that your wife might be able to be employed. Otherwise I would stay in Florida.

groberts
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby groberts » Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:09 pm

Whew. Finally made it through all 36 (!) pages of this old people's thread today (in between, you know, taking care of the kiddos).

I'm a 33-year-old married mom of three, and I plan to start law school in Fall 2012. The kids will be 9, 5, and 2 at that point. My husband was surprised at this turn of events, but he's supportive, though admittedly worried about how LS will affect our family life, and probably whether I'll still keep up on the laundry, meals, etc. I've managed to convince him, after reading a lot of law school blogs written by frazzled juggling moms, that I can treat it like a job and go 8-4, get the kids and do family stuff, and hit the books again after they're in bed 3-4 nights a week. He has a lot of evening meetings, so that's no big deal. Finals week and a week or two leading up to it, he's promised to give me some leeway.

Currently I work part time as a professional writer. I like my job, but the field has changed a lot, and the intellectual stimulation is all but gone. It's now about churning out as much copy as possible for very low pay to be plastered all over the internet to increase that site's search engine hits. The field is going through a rough time, and I don't like it enough to weather it. I fell into writing passively, but am actively making a decision to go into law, and it feels good.

Nerd alert: I kind of had fun studying for the LSAT. After three kids, I felt like my brain had gone into hibernation, but it's back, baby.

My prospects are decent. I live 3 miles from a T2 school with low tuition and a strong regional presence, and my LSAT and GPA are far above the 75th percentile, so I'm in a good situation for a scholarship. I'd be really disappointed if they didn't offer me a full ride, but I've heard that I need to play hard to get and apply to other schools so I can threaten to leave town. Word is that if they think I won't move, they'll use the money elsewhere. Of course I can't move, because my husband has to pay lots of the bills while I'm in school. We will have to take minimal loans out to cover some living expenses his salary doesn't.

I'm keeping an open mind right now, but I'm leaning toward IP (probably soft IP, though I do have a chem minor so could dust off those rusty skills if necessary and take the patent bar) and/or business law. Would ideally love school hours or some version of part-time when I graduate, though this job market doesn't seem like the place to make those demands. I might even hang a shingle. I know that's anathema to even say on TLS, but there it is. I'm entrepreneurial by nature and am not afraid of starting my own firm and rainmaking.

That said, I'd really love to work at a place like this: http://axiomlaw.com/overview.html Other aging hipsters might see the attraction. :)




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