OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

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gregthomas77
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby gregthomas77 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:29 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
gregthomas77 wrote:So then, with this analogy, if you go with the worst hole cards possible (say Cooley or Ave Marie or whatever), and you get a great flop (great grades) and good turn and river cards (good interviewing skills and a job offer), you beat someone who had better hole cards? Sorry, this proves that this analogy fails. Because there is no "matching" involved in this analogy as there is in poker, the shared cards (everyone gets good grades, everyone has good interviewing skills, everyone gets offered a job) means that the person with the best hole cards (law school attended) would be the winner.

However, the falseness of the analogy does serve to build the argument of all of the elitists at TLS. If you are a hard worker, a good interviewer, etc. and you believe that that is enough to get you a good job in spite of which law school you went to, you have to factor in the fact that there will be someone else who is just as good as you in every way, and the tie breaker will be the name on your diploma.

That argument felt dirty


The analogy isn't perfect, but it makes some sense and I don't think your counter exposes any flaw with it. There will be a few folks at really crappy schools that get better jobs than MVP folks. The top 1% at Cooley (or maybe not Cooley, but another 4th tier school) is holding a 7-2 off suit and flops a 7-5-2 while their opponent is the MVP student with pocket Q's that finished in the bottom 10%.


It is not a valid analogy. In poker, the flop, turn and river are shared cards. If the flop, turn and river represent good grades, good interviewing skills, and a job offer respectively, then the winner in the game would be the person who has the best hole cards to "match" with the flop, turn and river. So everyone has the flop, turn and river and the hole cards decide who wins.

Furthermore, the argument is further weakened by the fact that in texas hold em, you only get to play 5 of the cards, and two have to be the one in your hand. So, you would get:

Hand A: Good school + some good grades and/or good interviewing skills and/or a job offer

vs

Hand B: Bad school + some good grades and/or good interviewing skills and/or a job offer

Poker is dependant on making pairs/runs/etc. You can not argue that you might be ok with a bad school because you could "match" it with bad grades or poor interview skills. In other words, "good" interview skills, "good grades" and "good job offer" are great for everyone regardless of what school they went to, but they will "match" better with a good school than a bad one.

THink about it this way: If I have a 7/2 - I am hoping to get other low cards because in poker a collection of low cards can win. But if Cooley (a negative) is equated with a negative (7/2), then 7/2 in the flop/turn/river, would also have to be associated with bad things. So, while in poker A, A, 2, 2, 7 loses to 2,7,2,2,7, when you change the meaning of those, a good law school with poor grades, poor interview skills, and no job offer would not beat a good law school with poor grades, poor interview skills, and no job offer. On the other hand, A,A,A,A,K does beat a 2,7,A, A, K, because the good school would be the tie breaker among the two people with good grades, good interviewing skills, and a job offer.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:57 pm

gregthomas77 wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:The analogy isn't perfect, but it makes some sense and I don't think your counter exposes any flaw with it. There will be a few folks at really crappy schools that get better jobs than MVP folks. The top 1% at Cooley (or maybe not Cooley, but another 4th tier school) is holding a 7-2 off suit and flops a 7-5-2 while their opponent is the MVP student with pocket Q's that finished in the bottom 10%.


It is not a valid analogy. In poker, the flop, turn and river are shared cards. If the flop, turn and river represent good grades, good interviewing skills, and a job offer respectively, then the winner in the game would be the person who has the best hole cards to "match" with the flop, turn and river. So everyone has the flop, turn and river and the hole cards decide who wins.

Furthermore, the argument is further weakened by the fact that in texas hold em, you only get to play 5 of the cards, and two have to be the one in your hand. So, you would get:

Hand A: Good school + some good grades and/or good interviewing skills and/or a job offer

vs

Hand B: Bad school + some good grades and/or good interviewing skills and/or a job offer

Poker is dependant on making pairs/runs/etc. You can not argue that you might be ok with a bad school because you could "match" it with bad grades or poor interview skills. In other words, "good" interview skills, "good grades" and "good job offer" are great for everyone regardless of what school they went to, but they will "match" better with a good school than a bad one.

THink about it this way: If I have a 7/2 - I am hoping to get other low cards because in poker a collection of low cards can win. But if Cooley (a negative) is equated with a negative (7/2), then 7/2 in the flop/turn/river, would also have to be associated with bad things. So, while in poker A, A, 2, 2, 7 loses to 2,7,2,2,7, when you change the meaning of those, a good law school with poor grades, poor interview skills, and no job offer would not beat a good law school with poor grades, poor interview skills, and no job offer. On the other hand, A,A,A,A,K does beat a 2,7,A, A, K, because the good school would be the tie breaker among the two people with good grades, good interviewing skills, and a job offer.



Um, what if it was like the world series, where there are many different tables playing at the same time?

Actually, nevermind. It is an analogy that doesn't hold up well. But I did like it all the same.... damn you gregthomas! You shattered my fantasies! :lol: :lol:

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Stringer Bell
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Stringer Bell » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:42 am

You are taking this way too literally. I wasn't suggesting that law school is one giant poker table that everyone is sitting at (forget the head's up example, that was purely for clarity). The poker analogy holds for the individual. If you have a 7-2 offsuit and go all in pre flop it is usually going to be a dumb bet, but a few folks at T4's are going to get good grades and good jobs just like a few folks that go all in on a 7-2 are going to wind up getting a great flop. Calling an all in bet pre flop with pocket A's is always a great call, but it doesn't always work out just like Harvard doesn't always work out. Sometimes making a big bet with pocket Q's works out and sometimes it doesn't like MVP sometimes does and sometimes doesn't.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:59 am

Stringer Bell wrote:You are taking this way too literally. I wasn't suggesting that law school is one giant poker table that everyone is sitting at (forget the head's up example, that was purely for clarity). The poker analogy holds for the individual. If you have a 7-2 offsuit and go all in pre flop it is usually going to be a dumb bet, but a few folks at T4's are going to get good grades and good jobs just like a few folks that go all in on a 7-2 are going to wind up getting a great flop. Calling an all in bet pre flop with pocket A's is always a great call, but it doesn't always work out just like Harvard doesn't always work out. Sometimes making a big bet with pocket Q's works out and sometimes it doesn't like MVP sometimes does and sometimes doesn't.



You. I like you.

gregthomas77
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby gregthomas77 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:38 am

Stringer Bell wrote:You are taking this way too literally. I wasn't suggesting that law school is one giant poker table that everyone is sitting at (forget the head's up example, that was purely for clarity). The poker analogy holds for the individual. If you have a 7-2 offsuit and go all in pre flop it is usually going to be a dumb bet, but a few folks at T4's are going to get good grades and good jobs just like a few folks that go all in on a 7-2 are going to wind up getting a great flop. Calling an all in bet pre flop with pocket A's is always a great call, but it doesn't always work out just like Harvard doesn't always work out. Sometimes making a big bet with pocket Q's works out and sometimes it doesn't like MVP sometimes does and sometimes doesn't.


So then the analogy is that law school is a small poker table with only one player?

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oldhippie
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby oldhippie » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:59 am

the last few pages make me happy that i don't know how to play poker.

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rinkrat19
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:17 am

oldhippie wrote:the last few pages make me happy that i don't know how to play poker.


I haven't played poker since my dad taught me five-card-draw when I was about ten (so I only know the most basic of poker concepts). I've never been any kind of gambler....I don't even play blackjack or the slots when I go to Vegas! The last few pages might as well have been in Flemish.

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oldhippie
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby oldhippie » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:21 am

i can play if i have a sheet in front of me that tells me what beats what :) but as you can imagine, my ability to bluff or bet with any kind of intelligence is nonexistent.
i'll stick to darts and pool :mrgreen:

ArghItsBlarg
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby ArghItsBlarg » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:58 pm

You people are all nerds. Someone make an analogy comparing law school to a massive PVP event in WoW and I'll have something to comment.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:25 pm

ArghItsBlarg wrote:You people are all nerds. Someone make an analogy comparing law school to a massive PVP event in WoW and I'll have something to comment.



Yeah... but almost all of us are alliance noobs right now, rolling crappy warriors, and I don't even know how to compare us to a massive PVP event really. So, unless someone is super creative, fraid ur out of luck.


ps. I wrote a thesis paper once on WoW.... did you know the average player spends 22 hours a week in the game, with a range o 4-72 hours per week?

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lolschool2011
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby lolschool2011 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:31 pm

As inventor of this thread, I am hereby threatening to change the title to "wanna be poker/wow stars" unless we get this back on track. We're supposed to have more "mature" considerations ITT, not less. Has this thread been hacked into by 18 year olds? Go to your room.

ArghItsBlarg
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby ArghItsBlarg » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:49 pm

firemed wrote:
ArghItsBlarg wrote:You people are all nerds. Someone make an analogy comparing law school to a massive PVP event in WoW and I'll have something to comment.



Yeah... but almost all of us are alliance noobs right now, rolling crappy warriors, and I don't even know how to compare us to a massive PVP event really. So, unless someone is super creative, fraid ur out of luck.


ps. I wrote a thesis paper once on WoW.... did you know the average player spends 22 hours a week in the game, with a range o 4-72 hours per week?


I believe it. I certainly spent more than that when I was playing, and I only played at night.

Also, if law school means that we have to roll alliance, I'm going to med school.

And I would love to go to my room. It is quiet and restful, unlike this snowish hellscape that is Chicago right now.

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lolschool2011
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby lolschool2011 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:59 pm

ArghItsBlarg wrote:
firemed wrote:
ArghItsBlarg wrote:You people are all nerds. Someone make an analogy comparing law school to a massive PVP event in WoW and I'll have something to comment.



Yeah... but almost all of us are alliance noobs right now, rolling crappy warriors, and I don't even know how to compare us to a massive PVP event really. So, unless someone is super creative, fraid ur out of luck.


ps. I wrote a thesis paper once on WoW.... did you know the average player spends 22 hours a week in the game, with a range o 4-72 hours per week?


I believe it. I certainly spent more than that when I was playing, and I only played at night.

Also, if law school means that we have to roll alliance, I'm going to med school.

And I would love to go to my room. It is quiet and restful, unlike this snowish hellscape that is Chicago right now.


Ok, on the topic of the snowish hellscape... I live in Chi and am slightly annoyed at all the snow as well, however, don't you think they're blowing it a bit out of proportion? I guarantee people from Minnesota, Alaska, North MI and WI, etc, etc, are laughing at us for acting like it's a snowpocalypse.

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JazzOne
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby JazzOne » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:59 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
oldhippie wrote:the last few pages make me happy that i don't know how to play poker.


I haven't played poker since my dad taught me five-card-draw when I was about ten (so I only know the most basic of poker concepts). I've never been any kind of gambler....I don't even play blackjack or the slots when I go to Vegas! The last few pages might as well have been in Flemish.

De "Flemish Poker Challenge" is een poker tornooi dat zal gespeeld worden op 4 op elkaar volgende weekends in het Casino Oostende.
Tijdens de eerste 3 weekends zullen er 3 kwalificatierondes plaats vinden. Deze kwalificatierondes geven de spelers de kans om zich te plaatsen voor de finale.
De kwalificatierondes zullen plaats vinden op 22/10/2006 , 29/10/2006 & 05/11/2006.
De finale zal plaatsvinden op 12/11/2006. De poker vorm die wordt gespeeld is "No Limit Texas Hold?em" Elke speler begint met een gelijk aantal chips en een bepaald aantal van de laatst overblijvende spelers zal zich kwalificeren voor de finale.

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homestyle28
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby homestyle28 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:04 pm

So, what I'm gathering from the last few days of posts is that all my fellow oldies in LS will have gambling problems?

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:23 pm

lolschool2011 wrote:
ArghItsBlarg wrote:
firemed wrote:
ArghItsBlarg wrote:You people are all nerds. Someone make an analogy comparing law school to a massive PVP event in WoW and I'll have something to comment.



Yeah... but almost all of us are alliance noobs right now, rolling crappy warriors, and I don't even know how to compare us to a massive PVP event really. So, unless someone is super creative, fraid ur out of luck.


ps. I wrote a thesis paper once on WoW.... did you know the average player spends 22 hours a week in the game, with a range o 4-72 hours per week?


I believe it. I certainly spent more than that when I was playing, and I only played at night.

Also, if law school means that we have to roll alliance, I'm going to med school.

And I would love to go to my room. It is quiet and restful, unlike this snowish hellscape that is Chicago right now.


Ok, on the topic of the snowish hellscape... I live in Chi and am slightly annoyed at all the snow as well, however, don't you think they're blowing it a bit out of proportion? I guarantee people from Minnesota, Alaska, North MI and WI, etc, etc, are laughing at us for acting like it's a snowpocalypse.


The difference is no one lives in those places. There aren't four million people and multiple businesses that count on transportation to be readily available in those places. I actually think Chicago is handling it quite well.

too old for this sh*
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby too old for this sh* » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:42 pm

oldhippie wrote:the last few pages make me happy that i don't know how to play poker.


Law school is definitely for you then...you have to learn to play somewhere :)

And yes, I know quite a few people who became VERY proficient at the game while attending law school...there is also a reason why some of those at the top of the live poker scene have backgrounds in the legal profession.

Oh yeah...geezer checking into the thread. I'm in the over-40 crowd and will be knocking on 50 at graduation...although admittedly the post-JD job is already lined up.

too old for this sh*
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby too old for this sh* » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:43 pm

homestyle28 wrote:So, what I'm gathering from the last few days of posts is that all my fellow oldies in LS will have gambling problems?


playing poker on a regular basis =/= gambling problem

just sayin'

ArghItsBlarg
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby ArghItsBlarg » Thu Feb 03, 2011 5:46 pm

I spent almost 5 hours yesterday clearing my driveway/front porch. That qualifies the storm as a bad one in my book.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:50 pm

too old for this sh* wrote:
oldhippie wrote:the last few pages make me happy that i don't know how to play poker.


Law school is definitely for you then...you have to learn to play somewhere :)

And yes, I know quite a few people who became VERY proficient at the game while attending law school...there is also a reason why some of those at the top of the live poker scene have backgrounds in the legal profession.

Oh yeah...geezer checking into the thread. I'm in the over-40 crowd and will be knocking on 50 at graduation...although admittedly the post-JD job is already lined up.



I wish I could say the same as the bolded. It would really cut down on the stress. Though I have been told I can go back to fighting fires if it doesn't work out.

Anyways, welcome! Glad to see you here.

stugots26
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby stugots26 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:08 pm

Hey lol - thanks for starting this thread.

I'll be 31 on Superbowl Sunday (woohoo!) heading to law school in Chicago in the fall. I'm currently working as a professor in the city colleges and plan to continue to adjunct while attending (one class, the exact same class, over and over and over ad infinitum) so I'll still have a foot in the door elsewhere should the legal job market shrink further.
I have a PhD in synthetic organic chemistry and plan on going into intellectual property law, specifically patent prosecution.

I definitely think my time at the front of the classroom - both as a TA and a prof - will help me with the classes. I've always kept writing prose as a pastime, and developed proficient technical writing skills in my graduate work (although I understand that I'll have to learn a different syntax for legal writing). The idea of combining scientific knowledge and writing into one career and being able to protect other scientists' discoveries really appeals to me.

Best of luck to all!

And Chicago is doing a great job with the snow. To blame the city for keeping Lake Shore Drive open, for example, when people knew exactly when the storm would hit days in advance and still chose to use it, is ridiculous.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:47 am

Welcome stugots!

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oldhippie
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby oldhippie » Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:19 am

welcome stugots and too old!
i look forward to becoming a better poker player among other things in the next 3 years :D
but first.......gotta find a tenant and get my scholly! one step at a time!!

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JazzOne
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby JazzOne » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:31 pm

oldhippie wrote:welcome stugots and too old!
i look forward to becoming a better poker player among other things in the next 3 years :D
but first.......gotta find a tenant and get my scholly! one step at a time!!

Law school has been decidedly bad for my poker time. I spend my days worrying about interesting things such as why Congress wrote section 301 of the Clean Water Act in the passive voice, thereby failing to identify who was supposed to implement the requirements of section 301. Once you get down to the ground level of what lawyers actually argue about, it's pretty mind numbing.

fflewddur
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby fflewddur » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:13 pm

too old for this sh* wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:So, what I'm gathering from the last few days of posts is that all my fellow oldies in LS will have gambling problems?


playing poker on a regular basis =/= gambling problem

just sayin'


Perhaps going to law school is symptomatic of a gambling problem?




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