OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

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firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:50 pm

blacklawboss wrote:I'm 35 and will turn 36 a month into my 1st semester of law school! its now or never!!!!!



Welcome! Good luck this year!

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blacklawboss
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby blacklawboss » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:06 pm

lolschool2011 wrote:
blacklawboss wrote:I'm 35 and will turn 36 a month into my 1st semester of law school! its now or never!!!!!


I'm a little younger... but here's the way I see it: If we focus on being healthy/active and medical science continues to advance... even if one started LS at 40, you can work a good 30 years before you decide to devote your time to your hobbies/grandchildren/etc. What is "retirement" anyway? There's plenty of 70+ year olds in law/business. (look at most CEO's) This is a terrible example (and I WISH he'd retire) but consider someone like Rupert Murdoch who is 79 and heads News Corp. 30's are definitely the new 20's... and the more I think of it, the more I realize I'm infinitely better suited for law school now than I was immediately after UG.


1000% agree with you! I'm friggin excited to start school! top 5% here I come

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burger lover
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby burger lover » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:06 pm

this thread makes me happy and neurotic at the same time.
happy to see there are other thirtysomethings out there thinking about something other than UG senior-itis...
neurotic because you all seem to be going about this whole law school thing in a much more mature way than i am. :(

i've been thinking about law school for years, and finally resolved a lot of personal bid-ness so i can go in the fall.
applied ED to uva in september and was accepted (yay!). but i'm having major anxiety now about paying sticker at my age.
is anyone else out there in my boat?

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lolschool2011
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby lolschool2011 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:10 pm

burger lover wrote:this thread makes me happy and neurotic at the same time.
happy to see there are other thirtysomethings out there thinking about something other than UG senior-itis...
neurotic because you all seem to be going about this whole law school thing in a much more mature way than i am. :(

i've been thinking about law school for years, and finally resolved a lot of personal bid-ness so i can go in the fall.
applied ED to uva in september and was accepted (yay!). but i'm having major anxiety now about paying sticker at my age.
is anyone else out there in my boat?


You know - re: LS debt, who cares? I mean, even if you take out 160k, on a 30 year amortization and a 5-6% rate, the payment will only be about 1k/month.

Yes, 1k/month payment isn't peanuts, but relatively speaking, that for a transformative move in your career that'll increase your earnings potential for the rest of your life really isn't that bad. You have to think of this debt from a relativist point of view.

Note: I personally would not pay sticker to where I'm going - but I might be tempted for a higher ranked school.

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Leira7905
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Leira7905 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:16 pm

burger lover wrote:this thread makes me happy and neurotic at the same time.
happy to see there are other thirtysomethings out there thinking about something other than UG senior-itis...
neurotic because you all seem to be going about this whole law school thing in a much more mature way than i am. :(

i've been thinking about law school for years, and finally resolved a lot of personal bid-ness so i can go in the fall.
applied ED to uva in september and was accepted (yay!). but i'm having major anxiety now about paying sticker at my age.
is anyone else out there in my boat?


I totally get you. I was accepted at UT a couple of weeks ago, but as of right now I haven't had a scholly offer from them. I'm hoping that my being a single mom will qualify me for some need-based $$, but who knows. I was offered schollies elsewhere, but I really want UT because I think it will give me the most employment options, it's close enough for me to commute (i live in a paid-for house), and I LOVE Austin.

However, the idea of living on borrowed money is not appealing to me at all. I get child support and my family and S.O. can help me out a little, but for the most part, I'll be on my own. I'm just scared about whats gonna happen three years from now when I have to pay all that money back.

But, ya know what? I figure, I didn't come this far to get chicken-shit now... :)

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burger lover
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby burger lover » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:22 pm

lolschool2011 wrote:
burger lover wrote:this thread makes me happy and neurotic at the same time.
happy to see there are other thirtysomethings out there thinking about something other than UG senior-itis...
neurotic because you all seem to be going about this whole law school thing in a much more mature way than i am. :(

i've been thinking about law school for years, and finally resolved a lot of personal bid-ness so i can go in the fall.
applied ED to uva in september and was accepted (yay!). but i'm having major anxiety now about paying sticker at my age.
is anyone else out there in my boat?


You know - re: LS debt, who cares? I mean, even if you take out 160k, on a 30 year amortization and a 5-6% rate, the payment will only be about 1k/month.

Yes, 1k/month payment isn't peanuts, but relatively speaking, that for a transformative move in your career that'll increase your earnings potential for the rest of your life really isn't that bad. You have to think of this debt from a relativist point of view.

Note: I personally would not pay sticker to where I'm going - but I might be tempted for a higher ranked school.


i think i'm going to make a sign that says "a transformative move in your career that'll increase your earnings potential for the rest of your life" and hang it next to my bed so i can look at it every night. ha.

hopefully, it'll keep inspiring me until i'm 65 and i can make the last payment on that 30 year amortization. :)

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oldhippie
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby oldhippie » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:23 pm

Leira7905 wrote:But, ya know what? I figure, I didn't come this far to get chicken-shit now... :)

this :D
i have some anxiety too, getting into debt, not being able to sell my house so being a landlady and worrying about all that, feeling guilty that my SO is quitting a job he's had for 10 years to follow me to the mountains to live out a dream....but hell, what's the point if we can't still take (calculated) risks? i'm not quite ready to be sitting in a bank of rocking chairs on a porch somewhere!

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:31 pm

I liken this to poker: You make the best hand you can... and you want to bet only what you can afford.

But sometimes you have pocket aces before the flop and you just have to go all in and hope for the best.


Personally I am sitting with pocket Jacks, but then again, I only got about half my stack committed. So I am feeling pretty good about it.

gregthomas77
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby gregthomas77 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:07 pm

firemed wrote:I liken this to poker: You make the best hand you can... and you want to bet only what you can afford.

But sometimes you have pocket aces before the flop and you just have to go all in and hope for the best.


Personally I am sitting with pocket Jacks, but then again, I only got about half my stack committed. So I am feeling pretty good about it.


I say if you got a 2/7 off suit, still go all in. You could still flop three sevens.

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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby r6_philly » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:23 pm

firemed wrote:I liken this to poker: You make the best hand you can... and you want to bet only what you can afford.

But sometimes you have pocket aces before the flop and you just have to go all in and hope for the best.


Personally I am sitting with pocket Jacks, but then again, I only got about half my stack committed. So I am feeling pretty good about it.


But you fold all the time in Poker, and most of the time it doesn't cost you anything. :lol:

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JazzOne
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby JazzOne » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:42 pm

firemed wrote:I liken this to poker: You make the best hand you can... and you want to bet only what you can afford.

But sometimes you have pocket aces before the flop and you just have to go all in and hope for the best.


Personally I am sitting with pocket Jacks, but then again, I only got about half my stack committed. So I am feeling pretty good about it.

The problem with your analogy is that, in law school, you have no idea what your hand is before you have to risk chips. You don't know if you're smarter or a harder worker than your classmates will be. You have no idea how your intelligence, work ethic, and acumen for law stack up against the competition. In poker, you can rely on statistics to come up with a preflop estimate of your hand's strength. Imagine playing the game with the constraint that you can't look at your hole cards until the turn. That's law school. You get a hand, put your money in the pot, and only then do you discover whether your bet was foolish or not. But most preflop hands would be losers if everyone stayed in for a showdown. So too in law school you have a few lucky winners and the rest of the table scratching their heads wondering what went wrong.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:57 pm

JazzOne wrote:The problem with your analogy is that, in law school, you have no idea what your hand is before you have to risk chips. You don't know if you're smarter or a harder worker than your classmates will be. You have no idea how your intelligence, work ethic, and acumen for law stack up against the competition. In poker, you can rely on statistics to come up with a preflop estimate of your hand's strength. Imagine playing the game with the constraint that you can't look at your hole cards until the turn. That's law school. You get a hand, put your money in the pot, and only then do you discover whether your bet was foolish or not. But most preflop hands would be losers if everyone stayed in for a showdown. So too in law school you have a few lucky winners and the rest of the table scratching their heads wondering what went wrong.


The double aces I was referring to was getting into a T14.

My double jacks referred to a strong regional school with good employment prospects.

I agree that you can't base your hole cards on your own intelligence, work ethic, etc. The most you can see "pre-flop" is how good a school you are getting into, and how well their graduates seem to be doing.
Last edited by firemed on Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:58 pm

gregthomas77 wrote:
firemed wrote:I liken this to poker: You make the best hand you can... and you want to bet only what you can afford.

But sometimes you have pocket aces before the flop and you just have to go all in and hope for the best.


Personally I am sitting with pocket Jacks, but then again, I only got about half my stack committed. So I am feeling pretty good about it.


I say if you got a 2/7 off suit, still go all in. You could still flop three sevens.


Ah... I see what you did there. :oops: Can we never mention my skills at stats again? :mrgreen:

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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby r6_philly » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:05 pm

firemed wrote:
Ah... I see what you did there. :oops: Can we never mention my skills at stats again? :mrgreen:


:lol:

Oh man you are having a rough math day.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:06 pm

r6_philly wrote:
firemed wrote:
Ah... I see what you did there. :oops: Can we never mention my skills at stats again? :mrgreen:


:lol:

Oh man you are having a rough math day.


You know what is really sad? I got an A+ in my 300 level stats class. I used to be really good at them. I even liked them. That makes today even more embarrassing.

I hope jazz comes back in and sees how my analogy wasn't flawed though... a little redemption would be nice.

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emhellmer
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby emhellmer » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:08 pm

JazzOne wrote:
firemed wrote:I liken this to poker: You make the best hand you can... and you want to bet only what you can afford.

But sometimes you have pocket aces before the flop and you just have to go all in and hope for the best.


Personally I am sitting with pocket Jacks, but then again, I only got about half my stack committed. So I am feeling pretty good about it.

The problem with your analogy is that, in law school, you have no idea what your hand is before you have to risk chips. You don't know if you're smarter or a harder worker than your classmates will be. You have no idea how your intelligence, work ethic, and acumen for law stack up against the competition. In poker, you can rely on statistics to come up with a preflop estimate of your hand's strength. Imagine playing the game with the constraint that you can't look at your hole cards until the turn. That's law school. You get a hand, put your money in the pot, and only then do you discover whether your bet was foolish or not. But most preflop hands would be losers if everyone stayed in for a showdown. So too in law school you have a few lucky winners and the rest of the table scratching their heads wondering what went wrong.


Texas Hold 'Em!

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burger lover
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby burger lover » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:46 pm

i try to stick to the blackjack tables when i'm in atlantic city. :lol:

sidhesadie
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby sidhesadie » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:52 pm

I love poker.

The analogies are amusing me greatly.

Continue. :mrgreen:

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JazzOne
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby JazzOne » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:03 pm

firemed wrote:
JazzOne wrote:The problem with your analogy is that, in law school, you have no idea what your hand is before you have to risk chips. You don't know if you're smarter or a harder worker than your classmates will be. You have no idea how your intelligence, work ethic, and acumen for law stack up against the competition. In poker, you can rely on statistics to come up with a preflop estimate of your hand's strength. Imagine playing the game with the constraint that you can't look at your hole cards until the turn. That's law school. You get a hand, put your money in the pot, and only then do you discover whether your bet was foolish or not. But most preflop hands would be losers if everyone stayed in for a showdown. So too in law school you have a few lucky winners and the rest of the table scratching their heads wondering what went wrong.


The double aces I was referring to was getting into a T14.

My double jacks referred to a strong regional school with good employment prospects.

I agree that you can't base your hole cards on your own intelligence, work ethic, etc. The most you can see "pre-flop" is how good a school you are getting into, and how well their graduates seem to be doing.

Ah, I misunderstood the context of your analogy. The law school gamble depends on both the prestige of your school and your rank at that school. So maybe it's hold 'em, but you only get to see one hole card.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:24 pm

JazzOne wrote:Ah, I misunderstood the context of your analogy. The law school gamble depends on both the prestige of your school and your rank at that school. So maybe it's hold 'em, but you only get to see one hole card.


I think the hold 'em analogy is pretty good. HYS is pocket A's, CCN pocket K's, MVP pocket Q's.

EDIT: The flop is 1L grades. The turn is interviewing skills and the river is whether or not you get offered after an SA.

Plan2008
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Plan2008 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:30 pm

LilMonsterAnnie wrote:
sidhesadie wrote:
emhellmer wrote:
I could never have done it with younger kids unless I had a wife! LOL.


I wish I had one of those too!



I know, it's enough to make me consider switching teams! lol

My boyfriend put a sticky note on the dishwasher the other day that said "run me".
Now, wouldn't it have taken exactly the same amount of time to PUSH THE BUTTON YOURSELF? (less, actually)





sorry, but he wins the putz award
Image


My wife is sick so I tried to do a load of laundry. She was watching me as I played it cool trying to find the start button. She just snarked at me, "Get the f--k out of here." Embarrassed to say it, I got no skills.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:02 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
JazzOne wrote:Ah, I misunderstood the context of your analogy. The law school gamble depends on both the prestige of your school and your rank at that school. So maybe it's hold 'em, but you only get to see one hole card.


I think the hold 'em analogy is pretty good. HYS is pocket A's, CCN pocket K's, MVP pocket Q's.

EDIT: The flop is 1L grades. The turn is interviewing skills and the river is whether or not you get offered after an SA.


Hmmm... I like this analogy more... but I think the river should be the economy when u graduate maybe? Like the previous two years classes were hoping for a flush or a straight, or even a straight flush and then got dealt the dreaded two of diamonds.

gregthomas77
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby gregthomas77 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:11 pm

firemed wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
JazzOne wrote:Ah, I misunderstood the context of your analogy. The law school gamble depends on both the prestige of your school and your rank at that school. So maybe it's hold 'em, but you only get to see one hole card.


I think the hold 'em analogy is pretty good. HYS is pocket A's, CCN pocket K's, MVP pocket Q's.

EDIT: The flop is 1L grades. The turn is interviewing skills and the river is whether or not you get offered after an SA.


Hmmm... I like this analogy more... but I think the river should be the economy when u graduate maybe? Like the previous two years classes were hoping for a flush or a straight, or even a straight flush and then got dealt the dreaded two of diamonds.


So then, with this analogy, if you go with the worst hole cards possible (say Cooley or Ave Marie or whatever), and you get a great flop (great grades) and good turn and river cards (good interviewing skills and a job offer), you beat someone who had better hole cards? Sorry, this proves that this analogy fails. Because there is no "matching" involved in this analogy as there is in poker, the shared cards (everyone gets good grades, everyone has good interviewing skills, everyone gets offered a job) means that the person with the best hole cards (law school attended) would be the winner.

However, the falseness of the analogy does serve to build the argument of all of the elitists at TLS. If you are a hard worker, a good interviewer, etc. and you believe that that is enough to get you a good job in spite of which law school you went to, you have to factor in the fact that there will be someone else who is just as good as you in every way, and the tie breaker will be the name on your diploma.

That argument felt dirty

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Leira7905
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Leira7905 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:37 pm

firemed wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:
JazzOne wrote:Ah, I misunderstood the context of your analogy. The law school gamble depends on both the prestige of your school and your rank at that school. So maybe it's hold 'em, but you only get to see one hole card.


I think the hold 'em analogy is pretty good. HYS is pocket A's, CCN pocket K's, MVP pocket Q's.

EDIT: The flop is 1L grades. The turn is interviewing skills and the river is whether or not you get offered after an SA.


Hmmm... I like this analogy more... but I think the river should be the economy when u graduate maybe? Like the previous two years classes were hoping for a flush or a straight, or even a straight flush and then got dealt the dreaded two of diamonds.


I always cheat at cards :twisted:
Good luck everyone :D

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Stringer Bell
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:55 pm

gregthomas77 wrote:So then, with this analogy, if you go with the worst hole cards possible (say Cooley or Ave Marie or whatever), and you get a great flop (great grades) and good turn and river cards (good interviewing skills and a job offer), you beat someone who had better hole cards? Sorry, this proves that this analogy fails. Because there is no "matching" involved in this analogy as there is in poker, the shared cards (everyone gets good grades, everyone has good interviewing skills, everyone gets offered a job) means that the person with the best hole cards (law school attended) would be the winner.

However, the falseness of the analogy does serve to build the argument of all of the elitists at TLS. If you are a hard worker, a good interviewer, etc. and you believe that that is enough to get you a good job in spite of which law school you went to, you have to factor in the fact that there will be someone else who is just as good as you in every way, and the tie breaker will be the name on your diploma.

That argument felt dirty


The analogy isn't perfect, but it makes some sense and I don't think your counter exposes any flaw with it. There will be a few folks at really crappy schools that get better jobs than MVP folks. The top 1% at Cooley (or maybe not Cooley, but another 4th tier school) is holding a 7-2 off suit and flops a 7-5-2 while their opponent is the MVP student with pocket Q's that finished in the bottom 10%.




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