OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

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m052310
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby m052310 » Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:49 am

Just dropped 3. Trying to drop another but the site is being glitchy. ASU asked for my ACT score. That was 16 years ago. Who remembers that?

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dodint
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby dodint » Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:42 am

I am 33 and started a part time program (hybrid, same one as haus) last week. I'm surprised how relatively young I am in relation to my peers, I'd say I'm probably in the 20th percentile if you ranked our class in terms of youngest to oldest. We have a guy who is, I believe, 74 in our cohort. Nice guy.

The bulk of the class seems to be middle-aged women, 35-45. Nearly everyone seems to be struggling with work, class, and raising kids. Given that I don't have kids and my wife is working on her own doctorate at the moment I feel like I'll have an advantage over most of my peers.

That said, our class rank is ultimately compared with everyone that graduates the same term as me. I'll be competing against a bunch of K-JD'ers that have nothing to do in life except study so it will all come out in the wash anyway.

Unrelated, but my understanding about the difficulty of entering the law field at a later age is having to account for all of your character and fitness issues when it comes time to take the bar. K-JD folks have no colorful life experience to declare, I'm going to have to remember every dumb speeding ticket and whatever else for the last 20 years or so. Had similar issues with LSAC, undergrad GPA was tanked because of some exploratory classes I took in community college in 2000. Pfft.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:35 am

C&F usually only goes back 10 years. It was actually easier for me to complete it in some ways because my couch-surfing/work shit jobs life was way behind me, so I didn't have to try to remember the address/find a contact for the rented house I crashed in for 4 weeks one summer during college (for instance).

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rpupkin
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby rpupkin » Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:38 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:C&F usually only goes back 10 years. It was actually easier for me to complete it in some ways because my couch-surfing/work shit jobs life was way behind me, so I didn't have to try to remember the address/find a contact for the rented house I crashed in for 4 weeks one summer during college (for instance).

For what it's worth, C&F goes back to your 18th birthday in California, regardless of how old you are when you apply for admission to the bar.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Sep 01, 2016 3:45 pm

Oh, well that's depressing. My state was 18th birthday or 10 years, whichever was closer, so the k-JDs had a much better time of it.

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ponderingmeerkat
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby ponderingmeerkat » Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:53 pm

Dropped a couple apps today. One at a safety and another at a T20 in my preferred region. Feels good to get this ball rolling.

And I'm going to cosign the standard, old-guy bitch/gripe/complaint about grades from the 90's coming back to haunt you. Took some CC classes in 98-99 while still in high school. Got blown up by a couple, but never expected it to come back and bite me in the ass 17 years later. Who...knew?

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dannyswo
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby dannyswo » Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:49 am

ponderingmeerkat wrote:Dropped a couple apps today. One at a safety and another at a T20 in my preferred region. Feels good to get this ball rolling.

And I'm going to cosign the standard, old-guy bitch/gripe/complaint about grades from the 90's coming back to haunt you. Took some CC classes in 98-99 while still in high school. Got blown up by a couple, but never expected it to come back and bite me in the ass 17 years later. Who...knew?


I would expect that they will look more at your work history than your grades if you've been out of school for 10+ years.

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dannyswo
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby dannyswo » Fri Sep 02, 2016 6:52 am

dodint wrote:Unrelated, but my understanding about the difficulty of entering the law field at a later age is having to account for all of your character and fitness issues when it comes time to take the bar. K-JD folks have no colorful life experience to declare, I'm going to have to remember every dumb speeding ticket and whatever else for the last 20 years or so. Had similar issues with LSAC, undergrad GPA was tanked because of some exploratory classes I took in community college in 2000. Pfft.

:P

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dodint
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby dodint » Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:48 am

PA Bar does not have a time limitation either. However; they also do not care about minor traffic offenses so I'll be able to leave my Criminal History section entirely blank. They're mostly looking for DUI and other reckless behavior, it seems.

My school did require minor traffic violations on C&F. The oldest ticket I could remember was in 2001.

nottolate
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby nottolate » Fri Sep 02, 2016 10:55 am

Well! I think I have all of you beat-I am in my late sixties and applying to the top 10. Let us go for it and not worry about age! I'll probably be the oldest student in the class!!!

ookoshi
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby ookoshi » Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:58 pm

bmathers wrote:I just spent the better part of a week at my brother's in Atlanta (not far from the GSU LS, only a few dollar Uber ride), and toured the school while I was down there. I fell in love with the area of Atlanta I was in (Innman Park, I want to say it was?) and the walking paths. The GSU LS was also state-of-the-art, and my brother-in-law's brother is an attorney in Atlanta (I have quite a bit of family in the ATL area). I certainly could see myself living there post-grad. A lot of the decision will come down to what schools offer me what, but all things equal, I may be leaning GSU's way right now.


Hey, just saw this but wanted to respond. I'm 37 and in my final year at GSU. I'm in the part-time program and worked the first 3 years about 3 blocks from where the law school is now, in a non-legal IT job. Quit my job this past May for a summer associate position, and now have post-graduation employment locked in. If you have any questions about GSU, let me know. I'm more than happy to address any concerns you might have. I can also give you a very pro-GSU biased opinion about the other options you are weighing right now. :D

cinnamon_bun
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby cinnamon_bun » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:51 pm

Uhh, you guys. :|

So here I am thinking that I am in a good position to apply to law school which has been my dream for years. I'm 29, set to graduate with a 4.0 and I'm studying hard or the LSAT months and months in advance, and then reality hits me like a ton of bricks: LSAC takes all grades into consideration you got before earning your B.A., not just ones that are counted towards your B.A. Wha?! How did I not know this until now?

I have always gotten really stellar grades but in 2013 attempted an entire year of school while basically crashing and burning under the weight of clinical depression. As a result, I withdrew for both semesters long after the withdraw dates (my fault completely) and kind of limped along until the last minute trying desperately to pass my classes. I basically have about 19 credits of big fat "F" in LSAC's eyes, despite being a stellar student before and being on track to graduate with a 4.0 now. The worst part is that I only saw a doctor for a few months, got diagnosed and then thought, "Oh I'll just wing it" and stopped seeing him, so I can't even medically document it for law school admissions (would I even want to medically document it, though?).

What do I do? Even with my grades now, my true LSAC GPA is seveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerely under what I expected of myself and barely scratches over a 3.0. I was thinking of applying to schools like Columbia, NYU, Chicago and Penn because I've been getting in the 170s on my practice tests. It seems that I completely shot myself in the foot and can kiss all my (hypothetical) scholarships goodbye. I've worked really hard and if I'm honest, I'm kinda pissed about this.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:25 pm

On the one hand, law schools have to report your LSAC GPA to USNWR, so that's what they care about for ranking purposes. On the other, if you can get a stellar LSAT score, schools also very much want those high scores to keep up their medians, and once your GPA is below their 25th percentile it doesn't matter too much whether it's a little or a lot under. You will be in the classic splitter position, which means that you can gave some good outcomes but it will be difficult to predict. It's actually probably (somewhat) helpful that you have one spectacularly bad year that you can point to that lowered your GPA, and stellar grades for the rest of your education; some people have 3.0s because they just never did especially well and it's hard to sell that to schools. So if you're careful about writing a good addendum to explain your situation, and get an excellent LSAT score, you will still have options.

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ponderingmeerkat
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby ponderingmeerkat » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:27 pm

cinnamon_bun wrote:Uhh, you guys. :|

So here I am thinking that I am in a good position to apply to law school which has been my dream for years. I'm 29, set to graduate with a 4.0 and I'm studying hard or the LSAT months and months in advance, and then reality hits me like a ton of bricks: LSAC takes all grades into consideration you got before earning your B.A., not just ones that are counted towards your B.A. Wha?! How did I not know this until now?

I have always gotten really stellar grades but in 2013 attempted an entire year of school while basically crashing and burning under the weight of clinical depression. As a result, I withdrew for both semesters long after the withdraw dates (my fault completely) and kind of limped along until the last minute trying desperately to pass my classes. I basically have about 19 credits of big fat "F" in LSAC's eyes, despite being a stellar student before and being on track to graduate with a 4.0 now. The worst part is that I only saw a doctor for a few months, got diagnosed and then thought, "Oh I'll just wing it" and stopped seeing him, so I can't even medically document it for law school admissions (would I even want to medically document it, though?).

What do I do? Even with my grades now, my true LSAC GPA is seveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerely under what I expected of myself and barely scratches over a 3.0. I was thinking of applying to schools like Columbia, NYU, Chicago and Penn because I've been getting in the 170s on my practice tests. It seems that I completely shot myself in the foot and can kiss all my (hypothetical) scholarships goodbye. I've worked really hard and if I'm honest, I'm kinda pissed about this.


Sorry dude...that definitely sucks. Let's look at your mylsn.info numbers.

Image

Looks like your shot at scholarships at the T6 is about zero, and it also looks like your best bet for any money will be the lower T-14. If you score between 171-175 (the parameters of my search) it looks like you might snag 50-60K from a GULC or Michigan. Not a great outcome compared to what you were expecting I'm sure.

Not really sure what to tell you because this is "spilled milk" at this point. But, what you're going to have to do is decide if, perhaps, attending a non-T14 is an option given your goals. Maybe a strong regional like WUSTL (who will probably give you 100K+ for a great LSAT) or Vandy/Emory for the south or UCLA/USC for California. If not, it might be a blessing in disguise. Law school (and the legal career field in general) is notorious for exacerbating depression issues. Perhaps sticking with your current career or branching out into another "horizon broadening" experience other than law might be a better option.

Sorry for this disappointment, and I wish you the best.

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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby cinnamon_bun » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:39 pm

Thanks. To put it bluntly, this really fucking sucks. Hard.

I put in so much effort to get a 4.0 and, conversely, I was always an excellent student beforehand. The depression was highly situational--my mom had cancer and passed away. I am not a depressive person by nature and am completely back to my old self now.

This is just... ugh. I have no words. What was even the point of going back to school?

Edit: I just noticed you plugged in the wrong GPA. My current LSAC GPA should be a 3.44.

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ponderingmeerkat
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby ponderingmeerkat » Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:12 pm

cinnamon_bun wrote:Thanks. To put it bluntly, this really fucking sucks. Hard.

I put in so much effort to get a 4.0 and, conversely, I was always an excellent student beforehand. The depression was highly situational--my mom had cancer and passed away. I am not a depressive person by nature and am completely back to my old self now.

This is just... ugh. I have no words. What was even the point of going back to school?

Edit: I just noticed you plugged in the wrong GPA. My current LSAC GPA should be a 3.44.


Oh sorry about that. I misinterpreted "barely scratching above 3.0", haha. Here's your new info. Makes a huge difference...much better possible outcomes!

Image

cinnamon_bun
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby cinnamon_bun » Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:16 pm

Oh thank god! I'm actually on track to graduate with a 4.0 but haven't graduated yet. For me a 3.44 is barely scratching the surface lol. :D

Should I take more classes before graduating in some inconsequential stuff that I can try my hardest to pull an A+ in? I'm fluent in Italian, so I could run the catalog of their Italian classes... haha. I'm okay with taking courses like this for the next year and a half or two years if it means bumping my GPA up to maybe a 3.6 and getting more scholarship money. I'm really loan averse, and my tuition is very low so I can pay out of pocket in the meanwhile. In the meantime I'll keep grinding for the LSAT because I am trying to bump my score up a few points there too!

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ponderingmeerkat
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby ponderingmeerkat » Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:32 pm

cinnamon_bun wrote:Oh thank god! I'm actually on track to graduate with a 4.0 but haven't graduated yet. For me a 3.44 is barely scratching the surface lol. :D

Should I take more classes before graduating in some inconsequential stuff that I can try my hardest to pull an A+ in? I'm fluent in Italian, so I could run the catalog of their Italian classes... haha. I'm okay with taking courses like this for the next year and a half or two years if it means bumping my GPA up to maybe a 3.6 and getting more scholarship money. I'm really loan averse, and my tuition is very low so I can pay out of pocket in the meanwhile. In the meantime I'll keep grinding for the LSAT because I am trying to bump my score up a few points there too!


I mean...only you can answer that. I get the impression I'm not as risk averse as you. (Meaning I'd probably happily take that 90K at Cornell shown at the bottom of the chart.) I recommend you play around on mylsn.info and plug in different GPA ranges and see what you get.

My suspicions are you won't be able to get your GPA up high enough (no matter how long you play shenanigans with easy Italian classes) to make a play for a Ruby or a Dillard, but maybe I'm wrong. If you're that risk adverse, you'll probably need to look at somewhere like NU (which offers 150K to those accepted ED) or WUSTL who has a history of handing out fulls+stipend to "lower" GPA students. Just an idea.

cinnamon_bun
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby cinnamon_bun » Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:41 pm

You're totally right.

If I were to graduate right now I'd leave with a 3.44. That means I'd basically have to get upper 170s on the LSAT to get the sort of scholarship money I'd want. Maybe you're right, and I should start looking at doing the things you suggest. Thanks for your help! For a second there I thought I was a goner for sure.

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Rotor
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Rotor » Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:10 am

cinnamon_bun wrote:Oh thank god! I'm actually on track to graduate with a 4.0 but haven't graduated yet. For me a 3.44 is barely scratching the surface lol. :D

Should I take more classes before graduating in some inconsequential stuff that I can try my hardest to pull an A+ in? I'm fluent in Italian, so I could run the catalog of their Italian classes... haha. I'm okay with taking courses like this for the next year and a half or two years if it means bumping my GPA up to maybe a 3.6 and getting more scholarship money. I'm really loan averse, and my tuition is very low so I can pay out of pocket in the meanwhile. In the meantime I'll keep grinding for the LSAT because I am trying to bump my score up a few points there too!

Would you really want to spend tens of thousands of dollars to take fluff classes for what will likely make marginal improvements in your scholarship outcomes? You are guaranteed the expense if you take that path but you are not guaranteed increases in your results. Add to that you'll be postponing your career and the resultant income. Maybe you have a decent paying job now, but if you don't, I don't see the math adding up to justify staying.

thetravelinglawyer
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby thetravelinglawyer » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:42 pm

Keep in mind you can always include a letter of explanation of what happened in those first years and point out that you have a 4.0 since getting past that phase. Most schools do really take that into consideration. You don't have to provide a doctor's letter as proof.

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dannyswo
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby dannyswo » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:39 am

Rotor wrote:
cinnamon_bun wrote:Oh thank god! I'm actually on track to graduate with a 4.0 but haven't graduated yet. For me a 3.44 is barely scratching the surface lol. :D

Should I take more classes before graduating in some inconsequential stuff that I can try my hardest to pull an A+ in? I'm fluent in Italian, so I could run the catalog of their Italian classes... haha. I'm okay with taking courses like this for the next year and a half or two years if it means bumping my GPA up to maybe a 3.6 and getting more scholarship money. I'm really loan averse, and my tuition is very low so I can pay out of pocket in the meanwhile. In the meantime I'll keep grinding for the LSAT because I am trying to bump my score up a few points there too!

Would you really want to spend tens of thousands of dollars to take fluff classes for what will likely make marginal improvements in your scholarship outcomes? You are guaranteed the expense if you take that path but you are not guaranteed increases in your results. Add to that you'll be postponing your career and the resultant income. Maybe you have a decent paying job now, but if you don't, I don't see the math adding up to justify staying.

This. A year out of the work force could cost you $60-75K easy.

speedwagon
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby speedwagon » Fri Sep 30, 2016 12:27 am

This thread! Yeah. I'm 33 and a clown/performance artist/radio host/former punk with a streak for human rights law, housing law, and a lot of academic things like voting rights in the US territories. I just sat the Sept LSAT as part of my deciding process and need to figure out if I am going to go through with this this year - I was considering law school for a while when I was younger but I decided grad school was for chumps and sellouts. I got some of that out of my system and am now psyched to be a chump and sell out a little bit/do some awesome things and have new challenges and in my dream get to be a real academic law nerd (voting rights of US territories) but I am not sure I'll have the score to get into .

Thank the lord my former punk self pulled out a 3.66 GPA on my undergrad degree, although it's in Dance and English, so who knows how that'll count. I am however really struggling to have good reference letters - so much of what I've done has been atypical and I don't have a ton of former supervisors who can speak to my analytic reasoning, writing, et cetera, and I graduated from college 13 years ago from a big state school. What are y'all doing for your letters? I think I can get one from a longtime supervisor that I at least did some more rigorous writing for but I am worried about a second and/or third letter, especially if it can't talk to my academic ability as much as a general "she's smart, she's personable, she's organized" kind of reference (you know, the kind you need in the real world.)

I also don't want to leave where I live, which rules because it's NYC = lots of options but sucks because it's NYC = everyone wants to be here. I'm seriously considering CUNY, quite possibly Fordham/Cornell/Cardozo if I get the LSAT scores to get $, and I have a dream of NYU or Y/H axis to do more academic work but I'm not sure I can get the score to be a serious candidate.

At any rate, go get it, y'all. Excited to support each other. I am going to be at the NYC LSAC Forum and grilling folks about their non-traditional student facts - will pass along what I learn.

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dannyswo
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby dannyswo » Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:03 pm

speedwagon wrote:This thread! Yeah. I'm 33 and a clown/performance artist/radio host/former punk with a streak for human rights law, housing law, and a lot of academic things like voting rights in the US territories. I just sat the Sept LSAT as part of my deciding process and need to figure out if I am going to go through with this this year - I was considering law school for a while when I was younger but I decided grad school was for chumps and sellouts. I got some of that out of my system and am now psyched to be a chump and sell out a little bit/do some awesome things and have new challenges and in my dream get to be a real academic law nerd (voting rights of US territories) but I am not sure I'll have the score to get into .

Thank the lord my former punk self pulled out a 3.66 GPA on my undergrad degree, although it's in Dance and English, so who knows how that'll count. I am however really struggling to have good reference letters - so much of what I've done has been atypical and I don't have a ton of former supervisors who can speak to my analytic reasoning, writing, et cetera, and I graduated from college 13 years ago from a big state school. What are y'all doing for your letters? I think I can get one from a longtime supervisor that I at least did some more rigorous writing for but I am worried about a second and/or third letter, especially if it can't talk to my academic ability as much as a general "she's smart, she's personable, she's organized" kind of reference (you know, the kind you need in the real world.)

I also don't want to leave where I live, which rules because it's NYC = lots of options but sucks because it's NYC = everyone wants to be here. I'm seriously considering CUNY, quite possibly Fordham/Cornell/Cardozo if I get the LSAT scores to get $, and I have a dream of NYU or Y/H axis to do more academic work but I'm not sure I can get the score to be a serious candidate.

At any rate, go get it, y'all. Excited to support each other. I am going to be at the NYC LSAC Forum and grilling folks about their non-traditional student facts - will pass along what I learn.

Do you get in a lot of dance offs? Or is that not a thing any more?

drkacy2b
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby drkacy2b » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:25 pm

cinnamon_bun wrote:Uhh, you guys. :|

So here I am thinking that I am in a good position to apply to law school which has been my dream for years. I'm 29, set to graduate with a 4.0 and I'm studying hard or the LSAT months and months in advance, and then reality hits me like a ton of bricks: LSAC takes all grades into consideration you got before earning your B.A., not just ones that are counted towards your B.A. Wha?! How did I not know this until now?

I have always gotten really stellar grades but in 2013 attempted an entire year of school while basically crashing and burning under the weight of clinical depression. As a result, I withdrew for both semesters long after the withdraw dates (my fault completely) and kind of limped along until the last minute trying desperately to pass my classes. I basically have about 19 credits of big fat "F" in LSAC's eyes, despite being a stellar student before and being on track to graduate with a 4.0 now. The worst part is that I only saw a doctor for a few months, got diagnosed and then thought, "Oh I'll just wing it" and stopped seeing him, so I can't even medically document it for law school admissions (would I even want to medically document it, though?).

What do I do? Even with my grades now, my true LSAC GPA is seveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerely under what I expected of myself and barely scratches over a 3.0. I was thinking of applying to schools like Columbia, NYU, Chicago and Penn because I've been getting in the 170s on my practice tests. It seems that I completely shot myself in the foot and can kiss all my (hypothetical) scholarships goodbye. I've worked really hard and if I'm honest, I'm kinda pissed about this.


I have been perusing law school discussion forums today, and felt like I had to reply to your post. I think that you would be able to explain the change in your GPA in some type of statement. You have a really good opportunity to discuss what happened, and how it is a testament to your abilities that you've overcome such a struggle. IMO - it makes you a more interesting, and dynamic person. Especially since you've made a significant improvement to your GPA. Also, if your LSAT score is high, I don't think it will make that much of a difference. Just find a way to turn your "weakness" into a strength or a "growth opportunity." Just my two cents here. :)




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