OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

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bretby
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby bretby » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:37 pm

Just out of curiosity, for those of you who have roots/commitments in a particular area, how seriously are you considering moving? As in, what would it take to get you to uproot yourself and/or family for law school at this point in your life? I have been struggling with this question lately, as my first "decision received" was an acceptance from a school that is not close to where i currently live. I of course considered this in the application process, but the consideration becomes that much more real when the possibility of attending is a live one. What are your thoughts?

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RCSOB657
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby RCSOB657 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:47 pm

bretby wrote:Just out of curiosity, for those of you who have roots/commitments in a particular area, how seriously are you considering moving? As in, what would it take to get you to uproot yourself and/or family for law school at this point in your life? I have been struggling with this question lately, as my first "decision received" was an acceptance from a school that is not close to where i currently live. I of course considered this in the application process, but the consideration becomes that much more real when the possibility of attending is a live one. What are your thoughts?

Do you actually have a family to move? If not, should be an easier choice. I'm picking for just me. However, I'm also a military brat. Picking up and moving, coupled along with my family already being scattered across three continents, is not "weird" for me as it is for a normal person or society.

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spencercross
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spencercross » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:13 pm

bretby wrote:Just out of curiosity, for those of you who have roots/commitments in a particular area, how seriously are you considering moving? As in, what would it take to get you to uproot yourself and/or family for law school at this point in your life? I have been struggling with this question lately, as my first "decision received" was an acceptance from a school that is not close to where i currently live. I of course considered this in the application process, but the consideration becomes that much more real when the possibility of attending is a live one. What are your thoughts?

I'm not seriously considering it at all. I haven't even applied to schools outside of my region. If were a realistic contender for HYS, I'd consider it. But I have two strong schools that are a good match for my numbers/goals right where I live and it doesn't seem worth the hassle just to go from #17 to #15 or #14. If were single, however, I'd apply all over the place and consider moving anywhere...and probably still end up where I am now.

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bretby
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby bretby » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:00 pm

RCSOB657 wrote:
bretby wrote:Just out of curiosity, for those of you who have roots/commitments in a particular area, how seriously are you considering moving? As in, what would it take to get you to uproot yourself and/or family for law school at this point in your life? I have been struggling with this question lately, as my first "decision received" was an acceptance from a school that is not close to where i currently live. I of course considered this in the application process, but the consideration becomes that much more real when the possibility of attending is a live one. What are your thoughts?

Do you actually have a family to move? If not, should be an easier choice. I'm picking for just me. However, I'm also a military brat. Picking up and moving, coupled along with my family already being scattered across three continents, is not "weird" for me as it is for a normal person or society.


I have a husband who's somewhat portable :D He couldn't leave our home base, but he travels a lot and we're wondering about maybe possibly trying long distance/me commuting. Not sure yet though.... But I'm just generally interested in what other geriatrics are thinking along these lines.

Lillet71
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Lillet71 » Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:20 pm

bretby wrote:Just out of curiosity, for those of you who have roots/commitments in a particular area, how seriously are you considering moving? As in, what would it take to get you to uproot yourself and/or family for law school at this point in your life? I have been struggling with this question lately, as my first "decision received" was an acceptance from a school that is not close to where i currently live. I of course considered this in the application process, but the consideration becomes that much more real when the possibility of attending is a live one. What are your thoughts?


I applied only in my region and would not considering moving at this point. If we didn't have children, we'd definitely considering moving, but since we do I would not consider moving/uprooting to attend graduate school an option.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:14 pm

I applied fairly widely, but ended up going to the local school - none of the other schools I got in to were worth uprooting my husband or going long distance for, money/employment-wise (there was one non-local school I actually liked better, but it didn't offer enough advantages to make moving worth it. The irony is that I now work in that non-local school's city. :lol: ) I went to a lower T1, though, and didn't have a realistic shot at T14 - I'm sort of a sucker for prestige and if I had had a realistic shot I'm not sure what I'd have done (I got WLed at Columbia - which was just a kinder rejection - but I'm actually glad because the debt of going long-distance to pay sticker at Columbia would HURT).

We did go long-distance for one year while I clerked, but we were a short cheap flight apart, and that always had an endpoint.

evesmum
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby evesmum » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:54 am

I am absolutely considering relocating. My daughters will be 6th and 3rd grades. No husband to bring along. The local school is okay, but I am in at several T14 schools. The job prospects out of those schools make them a much better fit. I am NOT considering relocating to NYC or DC. The schools I will most likely end up at have a lower cost of living and are better suited for my kids (non-metropolitan areas).

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:59 am

evesmum wrote:I am absolutely considering relocating. My daughters will be 6th and 3rd grades. No husband to bring along. The local school is okay, but I am in at several T14 schools. The job prospects out of those schools make them a much better fit. I am NOT considering relocating to NYC or DC. The schools I will most likely end up at have a lower cost of living and are better suited for my kids (non-metropolitan areas).

What do you want to do after law school? Whatever it is, there's a good chance it won't be in Charlottesville or Ann Arbor, and then you'll have to relocate daughters in 9th and 6th grade once again. Also, if you're looking for private sector work about 40% of biglaw summer associate spots are in NYC. None of this should totally throw off your plans just some things to think about.

evesmum
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby evesmum » Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:36 pm

IP Law. My undergrad is in chemical engineering and my work experience is in biotech. Duke is my top choice, and there is a decent amount of IP law in Raleigh. But I am not opposed to relocating again when they are in 6th and 9th. The timing works as those are when they would be changing schools anyway for middle and high school. We are in NC now and very familiar with the triangle area where Duke is located.

historyman7
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby historyman7 » Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:12 pm

We are looking outside of our immediate area, though staying in Virginia. My wife is a professor at an online university, so she can go anywhere. Our 3-year old is at the perfect age to relocate, too. But we do want to stay in Virginia so she doesn't have to retake any licensure exams. (She is a Family Therapist.) Of course, with the five Tier 1 schools here (Richmond lis #51, which is close enough for me), why would I go outside of the state? (Plus, we want to stay here after graduation.)

So far we are in at Richmond and W&L. Still waiting on W&M, GMU, & UVA. UVA is obviously our first choice, but scholarships are going to play a big role in our decision.

BTW, I'm in my mid-40s and spent 16 years teaching middle schoolers.

Cheers!

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storpappa
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby storpappa » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:55 pm

I was going to make a thread titled The Old Man and The Law School, but thought I'd try here first.

When new JD's walk out of law school, the K-JD members will be ~25/26

When I first went into accounting, I already had some time in the military and years of PT and summer work. The Big accounting firms wanted the tabula rasa students. A fact I confirmed years later when I was consulting FOR the Big 4's at their global offices. I was able to ask a few senior partners the big "Why didn't I get picked up?" question.

And it made sense -- they wanted someone with just enough book learning, and from there they wanted people that would do things their way, period.

Does a non-traditional student with years of experiences, including billable consulting hours, look bad on paper for a BigLaw interview from law school?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:04 am

No, not generally. I'm not saying it will never happen - there are some employers who like the shiny new and malleable, but there are plenty of others who like seeing people with experience. And if you have the grades (and pedigree) you'll get interviews. You may get asked about/have to show that you can start over from scratch and work under people younger than you, but K-JDs have to be able to demonstrate that they can function in a professional environment, so each group has to deal with something.

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navykev
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby navykev » Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:29 am

storpappa wrote:I was going to make a thread titled The Old Man and The Law School, but thought I'd try here first.

When new JD's walk out of law school, the K-JD members will be ~25/26

When I first went into accounting, I already had some time in the military and years of PT and summer work. The Big accounting firms wanted the tabula rasa students. A fact I confirmed years later when I was consulting FOR the Big 4's at their global offices. I was able to ask a few senior partners the big "Why didn't I get picked up?" question.

And it made sense -- they wanted someone with just enough book learning, and from there they wanted people that would do things their way, period.

Does a non-traditional student with years of experiences, including billable consulting hours, look bad on paper for a BigLaw interview from law school?


I heard this a lot when I first started my law school journey - mostly from younger, 0L folks on here. Then I started reaching out to people like me - 20 years in the military - retired and went to law school - and actually work in the legal profession. I am now in regular contact with 4 GULC (where I am going ) alum with similar backgrounds to me - who all work at V10 firms. Each one of them thought their age was an advantage not a disadvantage - 2 of the 4 got 1L big firm summer gigs and felt it was because their strong professional backgrounds set them apart from all the other 1Ls clamoring for the limited number of paid 1L jobs. Additionally, I have communicated with a dozen other older vets from T50 and above schools and none of them felt their age limited them in their job search. So my recommendation to you is to find someone with a similar background (on LinkedIn, random google search, or on here) and ask them about their experience.

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anon sequitur
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby anon sequitur » Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:57 am

Experience matters, but that's a double-edged sword. Vets seem to do really well in law school hiring, even in their 30's. But I don't think people with "unimpressive" experience in their 30's do well at big firm hiring speficially. They seem to do fine (i.e., average relative to their law school performance) for public interest and other kinds of jobs. But I really think there's truth in the idea that biglaw is hesitant to hire people in their 30's.

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storpappa
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby storpappa » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:03 am

Thanks for the info / responses

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Ex Cearulo
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Ex Cearulo » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:15 am

anon sequitur wrote:But I really think there's truth in the idea that biglaw is hesitant to hire people in their 30's.


Do you mind if I ask what you base this on?

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anon sequitur
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby anon sequitur » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:28 am

Ex Cearulo wrote:
anon sequitur wrote:But I really think there's truth in the idea that biglaw is hesitant to hire people in their 30's.


Do you mind if I ask what you base this on?


Just being a 3L at at t-14

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navykev
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby navykev » Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:45 am

anon sequitur wrote:Experience matters, but that's a double-edged sword. Vets seem to do really well in law school hiring, even in their 30's. But I don't think people with "unimpressive" experience in their 30's do well at big firm hiring speficially. They seem to do fine (i.e., average relative to their law school performance) for public interest and other kinds of jobs. But I really think there's truth in the idea that biglaw is hesitant to hire people in their 30's.


Yeah you make some good points. That's why I was clear to lay out my experience as a retiring vet - it does seem that right now, for whatever reason, being a vet is an advantage in the law school admissions process as well as hiring. For selfish reasons - I hope that doesn't change! You mentioned being 30 something - heck I'll be 42 when I graduate - and one of those 4 I mentioned above was 47 when he graduated. Us retired military also have the fortunate luxury of a pension check and virtually free medical insurance to fall back on - so we can kind of swing for the fences and land softly if we strike out.

I would also add, that to me (remember I am just a lowly 0L), the folks with accounting or engineering backgrounds seem to do well in niche areas like patent and tax law no matter what their age. I am forever the optimist though - I strongly believe that in any career field, if you stay at it, your persistence will eventually be rewarded with a good break - maybe Im naive in that respect.
Last edited by navykev on Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:21 am

The percentage of people above 30 at most law schools is pretty small. I think people just assume big firms are wary of hiring olds because there are so few of them, but I don't know that age really makes any difference.

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cc78
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby cc78 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:58 pm

It makes sense for being >30 to be an eyebrow raiser, but that shouldn't stop anyone from making a go of it. Hopefully us old heads by now have learned that important life lesson that nothing is guaranteed.

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haus
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby haus » Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:08 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:The percentage of people above 30 at most law schools is pretty small. I think people just assume big firms are wary of hiring olds because there are so few of them, but I don't know that age really makes any difference.

The average age of students in my program is 36, but without a doubt this program is an outlier. Due to the very non-traditional nature of the program (hybrid-online), I expect that the interest by biglaw firms when this class will be limited to near non-existent, but I suspect this has to do more to do with the unusual nature of the program, than with the age of the students.

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cron1834
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby cron1834 » Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:16 pm

Reasonable?
Last edited by cron1834 on Sun Sep 06, 2015 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BVest
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby BVest » Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:29 pm

haus wrote:The average age of students in my program is 36, but without a doubt this program is an outlier.

The median age of my 1L class was 23. That means I was driving by the time half of them were born.

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spencercross
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spencercross » Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:47 pm

BVest wrote:
haus wrote:The average age of students in my program is 36, but without a doubt this program is an outlier.

The median age of my 1L class was 23. That means I was driving by the time half of them were born.

The median age for incoming classes at almost every school I applied to was 24. I was thinking about that, and it meant that most of them were 10 year old kids when the 9/11 attacks happened. Mind blowing. Also, good fodder for an age-based diversity statement!

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anon sequitur
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby anon sequitur » Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:19 pm

cron1834 wrote:I'm 1L, and about 4% of my class is 30+. I'd hazard a guess that this is probably typical or close to it. So, I'm somewhat confident that anyone's "observations" are going to have small sample size issues. Is there any actual data re: Biglaw and the 30+ set?

If not, I'm just going to assume individual cases are individual cases. T14 is different than /T14. Good interviewing is different than bad interviewing. 40+ with gray hair is different than a youthful 30ish. Bad grades don't equal good grades.

Reasonable?


Sounds reasonable to me. I definitely only have my own observations over three years and TLS hearsay to rely on, so take them for whatever they're worth. Older Vets and people with the kind of experience that biglaw specifically likes (science/IP, finance, etc.) do well. Those without that kind of relevant work experience don't do as well as a similarly experienced 25-ish people, at least as far as biglaw is concerned. Could be my own observer bias that accounts for this, or it could be that age discrimination exists at biglaw firms.




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