OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

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spleenworship
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:14 pm

Also, many of us tried and got told we weren't medically able to.

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navykev
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby navykev » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:17 pm

spleenworship wrote:Also, many of us tried and got told we weren't medically able to.


Yeah that sucks - i joined back in 1994 when the economy was so good -- they were paying people huge bonuses to come in for 2 years. It's been much tougher to get in since -- which is unfortunate -- anyone who wants to -- should be able to in some capacity.

I feel really fortunate and lucky to have had the career I've had. Im certainly nothing special!

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:28 pm

spleenworship wrote:Personally, I still only recommend going if you actually really want to be a lawyer.

I'll report back.

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hous
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby hous » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:26 pm

spleenworship wrote:
hous wrote:I think going to law school is a pretty bad decision for 75% of those that go. I think its got to be a terrible mistake for 95% of those over 30. Its not worth the insane tuition and miserable job prospects (LOL jobs...). Whats worse than raising a family on 50k a year? Raising a family on 45k a year, working 70 hours a week, and being 200k in debt.


Meh. 80% of the over 30s in my class got jobs, many starting at well over 45k. Did better on average than the 26 year olds did, on average.


But they were probably making the same or even more than that before law school. 80% getting jobs is not acceptable in my opinion but unfortunately, far less than that actually get jobs (not disputing your thought, just speak generally, much less than 80% of law students will land jobs as an attorney). The younger crowd will have more time to pay off those loans, lol.

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hous
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby hous » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:29 pm

spleenworship wrote:
patogordo wrote:160k/yr with 200k debt still kinda blows though

This is true.

Personally, I still only recommend going if you actually really want to be a lawyer.


I only recommend it if you go to a T14 or will graduate with less than 50k debt and have a guaranteed (lawyer) job. The other 75% of applicants should not go to law school unless they are absolutely positively passionate about the law.

People don't comprehend how much interest they will actually be paying on those 150-200k loans. Most of them will NEVER EVER pay it off! I have friends that have been out of LS for a few years and are all on IBR. One makes around 85k a year in a cheap cost of living area and she cant get financed to buy a $125k condo in a bad part of town because her IBR loan repayment plan requires her to pay like 900 a month to loans for the rest of her life. If she makes more she will have to pay more too. I feel terrible for her.
Last edited by hous on Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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spleenworship
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:30 pm

Perhaps surprisingly, most of those had crappy jobs before - hotel manager, teacherx2, housewife, comic store owner, paralegal, etc.- but my impression is this is a rarity, and most over 30s entering law made more money.

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hous
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby hous » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:41 pm

navykev wrote:
elterrible78 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
hous wrote:I think going to law school is a pretty bad decision for 75% of those that go. I think its got to be a terrible mistake for 95% of those over 30. Its not worth the insane tuition and miserable job prospects (LOL jobs...). Whats worse than raising a family on 50k a year? Raising a family on 45k a year, working 70 hours a week, and being 200k in debt.

Eh, I think it's a little unfair to say this unless you're actually over 30.


And if it's in response to the 39-year-old retired Navy poster, there are probably a half dozen or so factors that Hous didn't even consider when posting this. In the most general sense, I agree with him, but sometimes the one-size-fits-all naysaying that goes on in here is a little much.


Yeah if it was directed at me -- he clearly didn't do his research! Us military folks -- go to law school for free.

I'm being condescending above not to be a jerk but to prove a point -- most advice on here is decent and should be considered -- but each of us have our reasons and own circumstance. I hope no one is ever convinced by this board alone not to go to law school. Especially the ones on this thread that have a little more life experience behind us.


It wasnt directed to you, everyone knows military members get free education. Thank you for your service and you cant go wrong with free law school!

If I can convince some 30+ year old not to go to law school at a T3 and take on over 50k in student loans, I will be very pleased as I just saved them a lot of heart ache.
Last edited by hous on Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hous
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby hous » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:46 pm

navykev wrote:
I do have to admit -- that amount of debt is crazy!


Imagine that the average law student (of the 70% that actually find a job) will have about 130k in loans and only 50k in salary. Many will have 200k in debt and no job, period. Its ruining peoples lives by thousands annually.

Most are not as fortunate as yourself. I ended up having it pretty well because I planned it all out. I went to a decent school with a scholarship and worked in a law firm networking since day 1 of law school to secure a decent job. This is by no means typical. Hell some people wont even pass the bar exam... Too many law schools, too many fantasies of legal adventures, too many people blindly going in.

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hous
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby hous » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:56 pm

spleenworship wrote:Also, many of us tried and got told we weren't medically able to.


Or we had a lazy recruiter that was transferring between recruiting offices and fell off the edge of the Earth after we did everything they asked. -Hous2004

I did sleep the night before MEPS or w/e it was called. recruiters assistant drove me 2 hours to MEPS where I waited from 6am to 1pm for the military to get my dads signature authorizing me join the military and be evaluated (I was 17 at the time and my parents lived in different states). I just sat there for hours because my recruiter didn't think both parents had to consent. They wouldn't let me eat, keep in mind I was told not to eat after the previous nights dinner because I was having blood work done first thing the in the morning, pffft. Anyways my heartrate was 102 beats per minute when they checked which was 3 points over. I had to see a cardiologist who said I was fine and was likely under stress. Sent it to my recruiter and was notified he was working in a different office a few counties over. New recruiter never got back to me.
Last edited by hous on Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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navykev
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby navykev » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:59 pm

Honestly -- I was hoping that this thread would be free of all that "this is why you shouldn't attend law school" crap -- that is in every other thread on this board. I'm assuming that most that visit this thread are making a well thought out decision and have weighed all the pros and cons. That's kind of the purpose of having a 30 and over thread -- to get away from all that silliness!

But believe me -- I get why people shouldn't go to law school that haven't really thought it out - just think this is the wrong thread for it.

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navykev
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby navykev » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:08 pm

hous wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Also, many of us tried and got told we weren't medically able to.


Or we had a lazy recruiter that was transferring between recruiting offices and fell off the edge of the Earth after we did everything they asked. -Hous2004

I did sleep the night before MEPS or w/e it was called. recruiters assistant drove me 2 hours to MEPS where I waited from 6am to 1pm for the military to get my dads signature authorizing me join the military and be evaluated (I was 17 at the time and my parents lived in different states). I just sat there for hours because my recruiter didn't think both parents had to consent. They wouldn't let me eat, keep in mind I was told not to eat after the previous nights dinner because I was having blood work done first thing the in the morning, pffft. Anyways my heartrate was 102 beats per minute when they checked which was 3 points over. I had to see a cardiologist who said I was fine and was likely under stress. Sent it to my recruiter and was notified he was working in a different office a few counties over. New recruiter never got back to me.


Depends on how needy the branch was -- in 2004 -- the Navy would've gotten back to you for sure. We were desperate for bodies back then -- especially ones with decent ASVAB scores.

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spleenworship
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:10 pm

Yeah. Kind of agree. Plenty of threads already about why not to go.

tennactitans
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby tennactitans » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:45 am

navykev wrote:Honestly -- I was hoping that this thread would be free of all that "this is why you shouldn't attend law school" crap -- that is in every other thread on this board. I'm assuming that most that visit this thread are making a well thought out decision and have weighed all the pros and cons. That's kind of the purpose of having a 30 and over thread -- to get away from all that silliness!

But believe me -- I get why people shouldn't go to law school that haven't really thought it out - just think this is the wrong thread for it.

r6_philly
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby r6_philly » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:20 am

hous wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
patogordo wrote:160k/yr with 200k debt still kinda blows though

This is true.

Personally, I still only recommend going if you actually really want to be a lawyer.


I only recommend it if you go to a T14 or will graduate with less than 50k debt and have a guaranteed (lawyer) job. The other 75% of applicants should not go to law school unless they are absolutely positively passionate about the law.

People don't comprehend how much interest they will actually be paying on those 150-200k loans. Most of them will NEVER EVER pay it off! I have friends that have been out of LS for a few years and are all on IBR. One makes around 85k a year in a cheap cost of living area and she cant get financed to buy a $125k condo in a bad part of town because her IBR loan repayment plan requires her to pay like 900 a month to loans for the rest of her life. If she makes more she will have to pay more too. I feel terrible for her.


IBR is a fine deal. $85k is around $7000 a month gross. 45% of that is $3100. -$900 is $2200. $125k condo should be less than $1300 a month unless condo fees are high then buy a house. Plenty of room to fit housing, car and other debt I there. Not to say its nice having a $900 bi but it isn't easy to make $85k neither.

ETA I made thru, and a biglaw first year with $200k+ and grad/undergrad debt. Just bought a great house in a top 5 school district. Max saving for retirement. Things are more than manageable. I planned it out before committing to school, it's going as planned and I am enjoying it.

If anyone wants positive experiences please feel free to ask.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:25 am

r6_philly wrote:IBR is a fine deal. $85k is around $7000 a month gross. 45% of that is $3100. -$900 is $2200. $125k condo should be less than $1300 a month unless condo fees are high then buy a house. Plenty of room to fit housing, car and other debt I there. Not to say its nice having a $900 bi but it isn't easy to make $85k neither.

ETA I made thru, and a biglaw first year with $200k+ and grad/undergrad debt. Just bought a great house in a top 5 school district. Max saving for retirement. Things are more than manageable. I planned it out before committing to school, it's going as planned and I am enjoying it.

If anyone wants positive experiences please feel free to ask.

I take it you decided to use IBR/PAYE? Looking at about 200k debt myself and still deciding what to do.

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navykev
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby navykev » Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:14 am

r6_philly wrote:ETA I made thru, and a biglaw first year with $200k+ and grad/undergrad debt. Just bought a great house in a top 5 school district. Max saving for retirement. Things are more than manageable. I planned it out before committing to school, it's going as planned and I am enjoying it.

If anyone wants positive experiences please feel free to ask.


Great post -- the doom and gloom reported in every facet of our society (including law school) is greatly overexaggerated. If you understand the numbers and have a plan (and a back up plan) - you'll do fine. Us older folks have the luxury of looking at the situation through different lenses. I must admit -- I'd probably be scared shitless if I was a 22 year old undergrad!

tennactitans
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby tennactitans » Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:26 am

navykev wrote:
hous wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Also, many of us tried and got told we weren't medically able to.


Or we had a lazy recruiter that was transferring between recruiting offices and fell off the edge of the Earth after we did everything they asked. -Hous2004

I did sleep the night before MEPS or w/e it was called. recruiters assistant drove me 2 hours to MEPS where I waited from 6am to 1pm for the military to get my dads signature authorizing me join the military and be evaluated (I was 17 at the time and my parents lived in different states). I just sat there for hours because my recruiter didn't think both parents had to consent. They wouldn't let me eat, keep in mind I was told not to eat after the previous nights dinner because I was having blood work done first thing the in the morning, pffft. Anyways my heartrate was 102 beats per minute when they checked which was 3 points over. I had to see a cardiologist who said I was fine and was likely under stress. Sent it to my recruiter and was notified he was working in a different office a few counties over. New recruiter never got back to me.


Depends on how needy the branch was -- in 2004 -- the Navy would've gotten back to you for sure. We were desperate for bodies back then -- especially ones with decent ASVAB scores.



I waited 18 months in 2010-2011 for a bed at boot camp. Best decision I ever made. It's all relative to how bad you want it.

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anon sequitur
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby anon sequitur » Tue Oct 14, 2014 12:53 pm

navykev wrote:Great post -- the doom and gloom reported in every facet of our society (including law school) is greatly overexaggerated. If you understand the numbers and have a plan (and a back up plan) - you'll do fine. Us older folks have the luxury of looking at the situation through different lenses. I must admit -- I'd probably be scared shitless if I was a 22 year old undergrad!


I think the doom and gloom for people going to top 20, maybe even top 50 schools that have a good reputation in their market is overhyped. But people paying full sticker to go to the 5th best school in Florida or the 7th best school in California? They need to be warned, doesn't matter if they were coming here hoping for a more optimistic view. The person you were quoting, by the way, went to a mid t-14.

r6_philly
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby r6_philly » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:28 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
r6_philly wrote:IBR is a fine deal. $85k is around $7000 a month gross. 45% of that is $3100. -$900 is $2200. $125k condo should be less than $1300 a month unless condo fees are high then buy a house. Plenty of room to fit housing, car and other debt I there. Not to say its nice having a $900 bi but it isn't easy to make $85k neither.

ETA I made thru, and a biglaw first year with $200k+ and grad/undergrad debt. Just bought a great house in a top 5 school district. Max saving for retirement. Things are more than manageable. I planned it out before committing to school, it's going as planned and I am enjoying it.

If anyone wants positive experiences please feel free to ask.

I take it you decided to use IBR/PAYE? Looking at about 200k debt myself and still deciding what to do.

Yes some are on IBR some on PAYE. The way I see it, 6-8% interest is a lot lower than some of my other debt. I am maxing out pre-tax contrib and doing max Roth too. Earning + tax benefit has to be higher than 8% and I get to deduct the student loan interest (gross is lower due to all the pre-tax).

Also, is older folks might find this comforting: fed stu loans discharge at death, so there is no reason not to take the long road. It's doing to be forgiven or discharged or paid off. Seeing my last mortgage was higher than 8% ok with it.

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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby r6_philly » Tue Oct 14, 2014 6:42 pm

anon sequitur wrote:
navykev wrote:Great post -- the doom and gloom reported in every facet of our society (including law school) is greatly overexaggerated. If you understand the numbers and have a plan (and a back up plan) - you'll do fine. Us older folks have the luxury of looking at the situation through different lenses. I must admit -- I'd probably be scared shitless if I was a 22 year old undergrad!


I think the doom and gloom for people going to top 20, maybe even top 50 schools that have a good reputation in their market is overhyped. But people paying full sticker to go to the 5th best school in Florida or the 7th best school in California? They need to be warned, doesn't matter if they were coming here hoping for a more optimistic view. The person you were quoting, by the way, went to a mid t-14.


This is true, but I also set out to go to a T100 while paying instate tuition, and I would have done it. I probably wouldn't have landed big law, but I would just go with plan B C D etc. (which was plan A 5 years ago). I was going to use the extended graduated plan on maybe $100k loans and work my ass off as hard as possible as a solo. A law degree will be worth as I can make it to be even if it comes from a t3 school. Harder yes, but I was prepared.

How long does a biglaw job last? No one knows but it's never a guarantee, so I have to comfortable with managing it if I lose it. I planned for it and I am. Sorry this is a little devoid of details, but I would not have given up my previous career if I didn't have a decent chance to succeed with or without T14.

But of course blindly going in is a bad thing, I wholeheartedly agree.

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patogordo
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby patogordo » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:00 pm

r6_philly wrote:Also, is older folks might find this comforting: fed stu loans discharge at death, so there is no reason not to take the long road.

I dunno if you've been following the lounge but slackademic doesn't want us to tell people to kill themselves any more

r6_philly
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby r6_philly » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:05 pm

patogordo wrote:
r6_philly wrote:Also, is older folks might find this comforting: fed stu loans discharge at death, so there is no reason not to take the long road.

I dunno if you've been following the lounge but slackademic doesn't want us to tell people to kill themselves any more


I never go in the lounge lol but living with the debt isn't so bad when you can make like $50 payments with the income plans. The dischargeability is simply so I won't burden my kids.

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patogordo
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby patogordo » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:06 pm

yea i know i'm copping that PAYE too. just gonna keep voting democrat and hoping for the best. lot can change in 20 yrs.

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anon sequitur
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby anon sequitur » Tue Oct 14, 2014 8:03 pm

patogordo wrote:yea i know i'm copping that PAYE too. just gonna keep voting democrat and hoping for the best. lot can change in 20 yrs.


Objectively speaking, the current PAYE system is nuts, like throwing gasoline on a fire in terms of overall cost of education. It's great for us students/recent grads though, so I plan to support it until I'm safely out of school and into repayment, then vote against it. I feel like it's a chance to get my own piece of the boomer dream.

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patogordo
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby patogordo » Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:41 pm

i mean i pay a fucking fortune in taxes. i'm not really benefitting that much on balance probably.




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