OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

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Rotor
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Rotor » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:20 pm

chem! wrote:
Doctolaw wrote:It's funny. In my head I'm so much younger. I'm convince that the mirror is a lying liar.

Yep. I feel young inside, but after getting 2 hours of sleep last night, courtesy of my open memo, I feel 162 right now.

Amen. I love what I'm doing, but I've got to get a break one of these days. Still keeping up with the 20somethings...

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Metanoia
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Metanoia » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:21 am

Rotor wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:
Rotor wrote:10% penalty + 10-28% lost to the deferred income tax (depending on your tax bracket) + lost future gains + the unquantifiable sense of long term security seems to be a steep price to pay to avoid a ~7% ish student loan. Especially if your non-big law aspirations qualify you for IBR and loan forgiveness.

I don't turn 30 for a few more months but I want to jump in here. If you roll the money to an IRA and then take it out it's penalty-free. Ideally you'd take it out during your first full calendar year in law school, when your income is at its lowest. Depending on how much is in there you may not ending up paying any tax at all. There's really no right or wrong answer here; I used mine for tuition payments but I'm not convinced it was the right call. Just know that if you do decide to withdraw the money you need to roll it to an IRA first to avoid the penalty.

Agree--there are ways around the 10% penalty. But you'll still have the tax and other costs. If the balance is low enough that it doesn't exceed your exemptions and deductions, it isn't going to make much of a dent. In 2014, the Married Filing Joint Standard Deduction is 12,400 and Exemptions for 3 would be 11,850. So, assuming OP's spouse also does not work while in school and they make no other money (e.g., rent from their house), the most they'd be able to pull tax free is ~24k/year. A help, but in my personal view, not worth the long-term negative effects on the retirement savings. But then again, I'm a lot closer to the withdrawal window than OP, so maybe that's affecting my opinion.


Thank you both for the insight. I guess it'll be a pretty easy call to leave the 401k alone if the Dow keeps performing the way it has over the past year or so. Just seems like the time between the boom and the bust keeps getting shorter and shorter.

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Black_Swan
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Black_Swan » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:28 pm

Danteshek wrote:A major law firm in Europe (where I live now) told me indirectly that I am too old for them. I'm 32.


France?
Many 20 year old lawyers out there... :lol:

chrisnlis
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby chrisnlis » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:04 pm

Doctolaw wrote:So I am wondering if we need an older than the olders thread, because y'all all seem very young to me! I'm 46, lol.

I've got 3 kids in school and a husband with a successful business, so I'm only really considering one school. However, if I could workout a commute arrangement with a couple of overnights a week, I may consider the one that has already offered big money if my top choice doesn't work out.

It's nice to find other with similar concerns.


Awesome! Another 46-yr female applicant. I'm home.
And to think I was telling myself six years ago that I was "too old" to consider exactly what I'm doing now.

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zippernicus
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby zippernicus » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:15 pm

Just found this thread and its definitely helping alleviate some anxiety!

pkt63
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby pkt63 » Fri Jun 06, 2014 7:33 pm

Any other oldies studying for the bar right now? Just finished my second topic today so not too far in yet. I'm not really connecting with the posters on the threads in the main forum on bar studying. I'm doing BarBri and it seems like there is plenty of time (I'm not working) to do all the tasks it sets out each day on the Paced Program. To be fair, some of the lazy skills I developed in law school are slowing me down, since it has been a really long time since I've worked 40 hours a week. Like, I really wish I had an office to go to to get in the right frame of mind to work and not keep taking breaks or falling asleep. Libraries and coffee shops just aren't the same for me as having an office, but they are better than working at home. But, it seems like people in the other threads are all strategizing on what they can get away with not doing and/or what strategies work better for them than the BarBri plan. I thought I'd check in with others who may have a lot more work experience and see if this all feels pretty easy (on a day-to-day basis - I still get scared looking at the big picture!) or if I am doing something wrong by just following the Paced Program and then packing it in.

Not to say everything is candy and roses. My long-time companion cat was just diagnosed with heart failure, so she is slowly dying over the next couple months while I study, and my refugee client (from my 1L clinic!) is still in danger and we are ramping up our efforts to advocate for him. And I'm still trying to keep up with my Spanish conversation classes (a personal, not professional goal). So I certainly am not looking for other bar study things to fill up more time. But I can't help but worry something is wrong what with my experience seeming so different so far than the posters on the other threads.

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MURPH
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby MURPH » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:04 pm

I re-took the bar in Feb 2014. I passed the second time. I posted my advice on retaking on pg 49 of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=220409&start=1200
The tl;dr version is that the way to study for the bar is to take old bar exams / real MBE over and over and over. Don't listen to lectures, or study or do any bullshit they teach at Barbri. Spend 90% of your time on old bar exams / MBE questions and 10% on outlines, memorization, TLS, etc. Bar exams become overwhelming for the same reason 1L classes are overwhelming: the people who are supposed to teach you do it poorly and there is a giant industry of study aids ready to take your money and time.

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skw
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby skw » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:07 pm

My experience is exactly like yours. No difficulty staying on the paced schedule. I find it is about 7 hours or so per day M-F and 4-5 on Sat and Sun. I am reviewing notecards I make during active review on the weekends and evenings. It is not fun, but not terribly overwhelming either. I don't understand the mentality of not following the program. The curriculum is clearly developed to teach, reinforce and then cement the topics. I had some doubts at first, but I think the paced program is spot on and I'm feeling good about peaking right around test day. To me, it is easier than law school because I know exactly what I need to do to pass. I think. . .

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skw
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby skw » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:13 pm

MURPH wrote:I re-took the bar in Feb 2014. I passed the second time. I posted my advice on retaking on pg 49 of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=220409&start=1200
The tl;dr version is that the way to study for the bar is to take old bar exams / real MBE over and over and over. Don't listen to lectures, or study or do any bullshit they teach at Barbri. Spend 90% of your time on old bar exams / MBE questions and 10% on outlines, memorization, TLS, etc. Bar exams become overwhelming for the same reason 1L classes are overwhelming: the people who are supposed to teach you do it poorly and there is a giant industry of study aids ready to take your money and time.

What program did you use for the first test? Did you follow the recommended schedule? Just curious w/r/t what did not work out specifically the first time for you. Also, you are talking about the CA bar, right? That's one of the hardest to pass from what I hear. Thanks for sharing your advice and experience. It is appreciated.

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MURPH
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby MURPH » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:44 pm

The first time I took it I used barbri - sharing on a friends account. But it was obvious right away that it wouldn't work. We would watch a bunch of lectures and it just made me nuts, the questions for MBE and answers were not helpful so after about three weeks I gave up and started studying on my own.
Studying on my own was less stressful. But I mostly modified the Barbri study timetable.
The key for me was in just writing the essays over and over. If I missed an issue or bungled an argument. I did it over again. The most important difference between the first time and second time was that I used copy and paste outlines for writing in good IRAC format. The first time I mainly crammed as much argument as possible onto the page. Being strictly organized in my writing made my answers look good.

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canuckofchicago
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby canuckofchicago » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:43 am

Good morning everyone.

I feel relieved that there are many people out there who are in the 30+ category, I thought I was alone in this.

I am 36 and starting again to study for the LSAT this time from scratch. I took it two years ago and did miserably, but I think the two years away has really helped and disliking your current job helps too.

I would like to hear from people how they are managing law school and what type of careers do you have.

Thanks

Smantz
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Smantz » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:54 am

Just checking in. I turned 35 last month, and I won't even be able to leave the military for at least a year. So, earliest-case scenario is I graduate at 39, and that is not very likely.

Hopefully my youthful appearance and vigor will offset any age concerns, but I will probably lose said youthful appearance and vigor in law school...

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haus
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby haus » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:03 pm

Smantz wrote:Hopefully my youthful appearance and vigor will offset any age concerns, but I will probably lose said youthful appearance and vigor in law school...

While law school is likely challenging, I cannot recall anyone equating it to working as POTUS where four years appears to age someone a decade or two.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:16 pm

I got a LOT of gray hair during law school. (But of course, I'm of an age that I might have got gray hair sitting on a Caribbean beach, so...)

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northwood
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby northwood » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:57 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I got a LOT of gray hair during law school. (But of course, I'm of an age that I might have got gray hair sitting on a Caribbean beach, so...)



I went from a full head of hair with no grey hairs, to a 75% horseshoe hairdo( bald on top, hair on the sides)with grey hairs on the side. THANKS LAW SCHOOL!!!!!

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chem!
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby chem! » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:20 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I got a LOT of gray hair during law school. (But of course, I'm of an age that I might have got gray hair sitting on a Caribbean beach, so...)

I noticed a few more popping up over the school year. But, like you, I'm of a certain age, so who knows if it was the law school grind that induced them. :lol:

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Rotor
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Rotor » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:01 pm

Smantz wrote:Just checking in. I turned 35 last month, and I won't even be able to leave the military for at least a year. So, earliest-case scenario is I graduate at 39, and that is not very likely.

Hopefully my youthful appearance and vigor will offset any age concerns, but I will probably lose said youthful appearance and vigor in law school...
It'll only age you if you let it. I found being around a bunch of 20 somethings was invigorating.

That said, my hair did get lighter on top and grayer. But that wasn't law school's fault--it's all genes. The stress of military service is much higher than that of school.

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nygrrrl
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby nygrrrl » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:10 pm

chem! wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I got a LOT of gray hair during law school. (But of course, I'm of an age that I might have got gray hair sitting on a Caribbean beach, so...)

I noticed a few more popping up over the school year. But, like you, I'm of a certain age, so who knows if it was the law school grind that induced them. :lol:

This. And also my eyesight got markedly worse.
:lol:

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BVest
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby BVest » Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:47 pm

Rotor wrote: I found being around a bunch of 20 somethings was invigorating.


Very much this. If you can do it, quitting your job to hang out with a bunch of bright young people is highly recommended in my book.

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Lawst
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Lawst » Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:58 am

BVest wrote:
Rotor wrote: I found being around a bunch of 20 somethings was invigorating.


Very much this. If you can do it, quitting your job to hang out with a bunch of bright young people is highly recommended in my book.


Or, you realize you're older than you thought of yourself before law school? I was able to help professors translate pop culture references from the 80s, so that part was good.
I got along with my fellow full-time classmates for the most part, actually more so than with the part-time students who were my age. But I wouldn't say it invigorated me necessarily.

ookoshi
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby ookoshi » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:08 pm

Finished with my 1L year. Working a full time software development job while going to school part time at night. Made Moot Court, will have to see about Law Review (part time students don't get to try out for Law Review until after our 2L year, when we get ranked with this incoming year's 1L students). Currently hovering around top 10% from a GPA perspective.

I've 35, married, but with no kids. Still manage to make time for the wife to where it's not so bad for her. This has been a pretty crazy ride so far. When I was an undergrad, I thought I didn't have any free time. When I started working full time, I realized I had a ton of free time as a student, but thought with a full-time job I really didn't have any free time.

I realize now that I had a ton of free time even with a full-time job. Now I really don' t have free time. We'll see how I feel if I have to start chasing billables though.

And yeah, the hair is starting to turn grey.

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Rotor
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Rotor » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:07 pm

Lawst wrote:
BVest wrote:
Rotor wrote: I found being around a bunch of 20 somethings was invigorating.


Very much this. If you can do it, quitting your job to hang out with a bunch of bright young people is highly recommended in my book.


Or, you realize you're older than you thought of yourself before law school? I was able to help professors translate pop culture references from the 80s, so that part was good.
I got along with my fellow full-time classmates for the most part, actually more so than with the part-time students who were my age. But I wouldn't say it invigorated me necessarily.
Haha, yes. Pop culture is the double edged sword. Had plenty of experiences like you mentioned. But also had a few smh/am I really that old moments. Like the time when my contracts prof put on his best Sgt. Schulz imitation and said "I know nothingk!" and I was the only one to chuckle. A quick informal poll revealed not a one of them (not even the 30 something) had heard of Hogans' Heroes.

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elterrible78
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby elterrible78 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:47 pm

Rotor wrote:
Lawst wrote:
BVest wrote:
Rotor wrote: I found being around a bunch of 20 somethings was invigorating.


Very much this. If you can do it, quitting your job to hang out with a bunch of bright young people is highly recommended in my book.


Or, you realize you're older than you thought of yourself before law school? I was able to help professors translate pop culture references from the 80s, so that part was good.
I got along with my fellow full-time classmates for the most part, actually more so than with the part-time students who were my age. But I wouldn't say it invigorated me necessarily.
Haha, yes. Pop culture is the double edged sword. Had plenty of experiences like you mentioned. But also had a few smh/am I really that old moments. Like the time when my contracts prof put on his best Sgt. Schulz imitation and said "I know nothingk!" and I was the only one to chuckle. A quick informal poll revealed not a one of them (not even the 30 something) had heard of Hogans' Heroes.


In Civ Pro early in the year, the instructor (maybe a year or two older than me) was talking about a Supreme Court opinion, and said "Isn't it ironic, don't you think? (pause). A little *too* ironic?"

Crickets. First time in my life I ever felt old.

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BVest
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby BVest » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:35 pm

Civ Pro: Who in here was born before 1980?

One hand goes up (and I wasn't even that close).

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elterrible78
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby elterrible78 » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:39 pm

BVest wrote:Civ Pro: Who in here was born before 1980?

One hand goes up (and I wasn't even that close).


I had breakfast with Richard Epstein a few weeks ago, and he asked that question at the table. When I told him I was born in 1978, he just asked me what the hell I was doing at law school at my age. He wasn't joking.




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