OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

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FormerCorpsman
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby FormerCorpsman » Tue May 14, 2013 10:20 pm

I am in my early 30s. My hope is to procure an excellent LSAT score and leverage my military experience to land at the University of Texas-Austin Law School. After leaving the military, I entered undergraduate study with scholarships, then obtained many academic scholarships in the course of events. I decided to take a detour on the road to law school to obtain a master's degree in Classics (Ancient Latin and Greek), which I felt compelled to do. I am naturally inclined to language acquisition, and, also, I felt that this degree is an imperative for law school.

My desire is to enter litigation to protect against infraction of individual civil liberties and white collar crime. I consider myself a classical liberal influenced by Thomas Jefferson, Ludwig Von Mises, St. Thomas Aquinas, Cicero, and various other great minds of the past. I hope to take several electives in law school pertaining to civil procedure, Constitutional studies, antitrust, civil liberties, etc.

When it comes to interview time, I hope that my international experience under the military and personal travels to the Middle East will sway employers. I lived in the Middle East for a while to solidify my Arabic skills. Also, I am hoping that knowing Arabic, Latin, and Greek will evince to them that I can learn and adapt to demanding situations when serious mental exertion is needed. Good Luck to all!

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elterrible78
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby elterrible78 » Wed May 15, 2013 9:30 am

dawyzest1 wrote:

I appreciate your optimism and am going to try to get out of my anxious mindset about it. I basically want to do what you want to do. The clerkship would be huge for me because I want to do litigation and would love to have academia as an option. But if I am just a median kind of guy, I will be happy to take my chances and go straight to biglaw. Hope it works out for us!

The family situation will be challenging for sure, but ultimately my wife and I decided that it would be silly to uproot the whole family (we have an 8 year old and 4 year old) and move to Boston just to turn around and come back to the south when I finished. So, we will grin and bear the 8/9 months I'll be in Cambridge and I will do whatever I can to be in Atlanta during the summers. The Atlanta legal market is a mess so I could strike out there, really throwing things up into the air. What's your situation like?[/quote]

Yeah, our plans/expectations definitely sound very similar. My wife and I don't have any children yet, and won't for a couple more years, at least. She's not a cold weather person at all, and her entire family lives in the Miami area, so she'll be staying there while I'm in school (we do anticipate racking up some frequent flyer miles, though). I plan on doing everything I can to get back down to Miami for the summers (so the guaranteed summer finding at Chicago is really attractive), and then settling down there eventually.

I still let the age thing worry me a little from time to time, but my rational mind tells me it's not going to be a problem, either in terms of keeping up in school or getting a job afterwards. Let's hope I'm right!

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Rotor
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Rotor » Fri May 17, 2013 11:14 pm

dawyzest1 wrote:Are you as scared as I am that they will take one look at the resume, see a college degree awarded during the first W administration and toss it right into the garbage can?
Age and experience are an asset, not a liability. You just need to translate that experience into a story that fits the jobs you're targeting.

And stop worrying about your W administration diploma. I graduated undergrad when HW was VP and am now a first year at a V20.

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elterrible78
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby elterrible78 » Fri May 17, 2013 11:19 pm

Rotor wrote:
dawyzest1 wrote:Are you as scared as I am that they will take one look at the resume, see a college degree awarded during the first W administration and toss it right into the garbage can?
Age and experience are an asset, not a liability. You just need to translate that experience into a story that fits the jobs you're targeting.

And stop worrying about your W administration diploma. I graduated undergrad when HW was VP and am now a first year at a V20.


One little sentence, but so, so inspiring!

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chem!
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby chem! » Fri May 17, 2013 11:20 pm

Rotor wrote:
dawyzest1 wrote:Are you as scared as I am that they will take one look at the resume, see a college degree awarded during the first W administration and toss it right into the garbage can?
Age and experience are an asset, not a liability. You just need to translate that experience into a story that fits the jobs you're targeting.

And stop worrying about your W administration diploma. I graduated undergrad when HW was VP and am now a first year at a V20.

This gives me hope. :)

40andlegal
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby 40andlegal » Sun May 19, 2013 1:03 pm

Rotor wrote:
dawyzest1 wrote:Are you as scared as I am that they will take one look at the resume, see a college degree awarded during the first W administration and toss it right into the garbage can?
Age and experience are an asset, not a liability. You just need to translate that experience into a story that fits the jobs you're targeting.

And stop worrying about your W administration diploma. I graduated undergrad when HW was VP and am now a first year at a V20.


This makes me feel a bit more confident.

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elterrible78
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby elterrible78 » Wed May 29, 2013 12:04 am

Hey, fellow olds.

I have started a blog (and by started, I mean JUST started) to document life during law school as a nontraditional student. I'm always interested in feedback, and if others are interested in participating as authors, I'm all for it. I know that as I've made the decision over the past few years to go to law school, I've had lots of age-related anxiety, and while there have been people here and there to help out (many in this thread, in fact), I think it would be good to have a resource out there for others like me (us?) who have a different set of considerations to think about when approaching law school. So, if you want, take a look, and if you're interested in participating, let me know.

http://www.oldandinlawschool.com

(I'm going to spruce it up, I just haven't had the time yet)

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Lisi
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Lisi » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:41 pm

Hi all!
I had entirely forgotten about this thread, but I thought I'd pop back in to share some words of encouragement. I got a lot of helpful advice and encouragement when I was thinking about and applying to law school from other posters on this thread. I'm in my early 30s and was concerned about so many things (sufficient energy and endurance to do well in the grind of law school, interviewers' thinking I was too old to start work at a law firm, connecting with the other students in my class, etc.). So far (after 2 years of law school), I've found that my worries were all pretty unfounded. I would even say that my age has been an advantage. My class is mostly young (K-JD) types, but there is still a good group of slightly older people. The older students tend to do a bit better on the whole, and I have yet to see one decide that law school isn't the right choice and then drop out. I think this is because law school is mostly about commitment and willingness to work even when the work isn't exciting (and law school isn't exciting). Being able to do that seems to get easier with age. As an older student you do miss out on a lot of the growing-up-together aspects of law school, and sometimes I miss that, but you can't have it both ways. I should also add that you shouldn't feel the need to only hang out with the other older students -- my friends in law school range from 23 to a friend who's 50, and that's probably true for most of the other older students.

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haus
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby haus » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:39 am

I wanted to bump this thread to wish an old schooler taking the LSAT next week the best of luck.
Last edited by haus on Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Danteshek
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Danteshek » Sat Nov 02, 2013 4:45 am

A major law firm in Europe (where I live now) told me indirectly that I am too old for them. I'm 32.

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spleenworship
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:46 am

Europe is not North America. Thank God.


Sorry to hear though. That sucks.

Which country, out of interest?

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unc0mm0n1
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby unc0mm0n1 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:38 pm

Danteshek wrote:A major law firm in Europe (where I live now) told me indirectly that I am too old for them. I'm 32.


And not all European firms believe that. I know most of the major London firms could care less. I summered at one and received an offer. It's that firm's loss.

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Lawst
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Lawst » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:24 pm

If any of you fellow olds are looking to do public interest/criminal law, I've found that my age (40) hasn't seemed to have hurt my chances so far and in fact seems to pique interviewers' interest since I had a whole other career before law school. I'm a 3L, still on the job hunt, which is normal for what I want to do - I'll be lucky if I get an offer by January in this field.

I'm pretty sure I'm the oldest 3L here, save the evening students, who I don't relate to for other reasons (a lot of them have kids, mortgages, lawns, and I'm not about that life :lol: ). None of the youngins ever seem to know how elderly I am, just that I'm not 25, maybe I'm close to *gasp* 30. So, it's not so bad. Just expect that your law school experience is going to be a lot less social than a 22-year-old's, which is fine.

RoaringMice
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby RoaringMice » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:39 pm

Danteshek wrote:A major law firm in Europe (where I live now) told me indirectly that I am too old for them. I'm 32.


Generally speaking, employers in some countries in Europe are more age-sensitive than in the US. Likewise with gender. But this varies very much from one country to another. You may be too old in that country, and they tell you indirectly. You may be too old in another country, and they'll tell you directly. :lol: And yet in still other countries, your age would not be an issue; and may even be an asset. Varies from country to country.

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UVAIce
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby UVAIce » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:06 pm

Figured I should post something in here. I'm a non-traditional student (30 during OGI) and spent a considerable amount of time in the military.

I definitely didn't have any problems during OGI/OCI due to my age. At UVA we're allowed 23 interviews during OGI and I maxed out on pre-selects and converted 20/23 into callback interviews bidding only DC/Richmond. I also had a 1L SA in my home market. I'm headed to Richmond now - long story, but I had multiple offers from more "prestigious" law firms, but ended up choosing a firm based on my interactions with the lawyers there as well as what fit my family best.

I've also done pretty well in law school itself - I'm on VLR (which pretty much outs who I am in real life if you go to UVA) and have had good grades in law school.

To some of the posters above, I never had a single negative interaction due to my age and interviewed with a number of Magic Circle firms and had positive interactions with all of them. My age and experience has been nothing but a boon so far.

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Metanoia
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Metanoia » Fri Nov 15, 2013 10:19 pm

Hi everyone, I'm 31, married with a four-year-old son and planning on applying next year. I'm wondering what the consensus on drawing from investments to avoid debt during law school is? Are the penalties of drawing from a 401k worth avoiding debt? (I'm not planning on pursuing biglaw). I'm also wondering if I should sell an investment home in Florida before I start school--on one hand I'd like to cash out what little equity I have before I go back to school and avoid the risk of another down cycle, tenant loss, etc. On the other hand, I'd hate to sell at the bottom of the market, especially when I've just started seeing the equity creep up little by little each month. I know this isn't a financial planning forum, but I'm just curious what other people have done in similar circumstances. Thanks!

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Rotor
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Rotor » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:37 pm

Metanoia wrote:Hi everyone, I'm 31, married with a four-year-old son and planning on applying next year. I'm wondering what the consensus on drawing from investments to avoid debt during law school is? Are the penalties of drawing from a 401k worth avoiding debt? (I'm not planning on pursuing biglaw). I'm also wondering if I should sell an investment home in Florida before I start school--on one hand I'd like to cash out what little equity I have before I go back to school and avoid the risk of another down cycle, tenant loss, etc. On the other hand, I'd hate to sell at the bottom of the market, especially when I've just started seeing the equity creep up little by little each month. I know this isn't a financial planning forum, but I'm just curious what other people have done in similar circumstances. Thanks!

10% penalty + 10-28% lost to the deferred income tax (depending on your tax bracket) + lost future gains + the unquantifiable sense of long term security seems to be a steep price to pay to avoid a ~7% ish student loan. Especially if your non-big law aspirations qualify you for IBR and loan forgiveness.

As for selling your house, too many variables to give you advice. I kept an investment property (mostly because it was way underwater) but got lucky with a good manager and 100% occupancy. The expenses in selling a house are very high. Not to mention any code repairs that have to get made that you cannot get the buyer to take on. Be sure your "equity" is in the black after all that.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:22 pm

Rotor wrote:
Metanoia wrote:Hi everyone, I'm 31, married with a four-year-old son and planning on applying next year. I'm wondering what the consensus on drawing from investments to avoid debt during law school is? Are the penalties of drawing from a 401k worth avoiding debt? (I'm not planning on pursuing biglaw). I'm also wondering if I should sell an investment home in Florida before I start school--on one hand I'd like to cash out what little equity I have before I go back to school and avoid the risk of another down cycle, tenant loss, etc. On the other hand, I'd hate to sell at the bottom of the market, especially when I've just started seeing the equity creep up little by little each month. I know this isn't a financial planning forum, but I'm just curious what other people have done in similar circumstances. Thanks!

10% penalty + 10-28% lost to the deferred income tax (depending on your tax bracket) + lost future gains + the unquantifiable sense of long term security seems to be a steep price to pay to avoid a ~7% ish student loan. Especially if your non-big law aspirations qualify you for IBR and loan forgiveness.

I don't turn 30 for a few more months but I want to jump in here. If you roll the money to an IRA and then take it out it's penalty-free. Ideally you'd take it out during your first full calendar year in law school, when your income is at its lowest. Depending on how much is in there you may not ending up paying any tax at all. There's really no right or wrong answer here; I used mine for tuition payments but I'm not convinced it was the right call. Just know that if you do decide to withdraw the money you need to roll it to an IRA first to avoid the penalty.

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Doctolaw
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Doctolaw » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:07 pm

So I am wondering if we need an older than the olders thread, because y'all all seem very young to me! I'm 46, lol.

I've got 3 kids in school and a husband with a successful business, so I'm only really considering one school. However, if I could workout a commute arrangement with a couple of overnights a week, I may consider the one that has already offered big money if my top choice doesn't work out.

It's nice to find other with similar concerns.

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Rotor
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Rotor » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:12 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Rotor wrote:
Metanoia wrote:Hi everyone, I'm 31, married with a four-year-old son and planning on applying next year. I'm wondering what the consensus on drawing from investments to avoid debt during law school is? Are the penalties of drawing from a 401k worth avoiding debt? (I'm not planning on pursuing biglaw). I'm also wondering if I should sell an investment home in Florida before I start school--on one hand I'd like to cash out what little equity I have before I go back to school and avoid the risk of another down cycle, tenant loss, etc. On the other hand, I'd hate to sell at the bottom of the market, especially when I've just started seeing the equity creep up little by little each month. I know this isn't a financial planning forum, but I'm just curious what other people have done in similar circumstances. Thanks!

10% penalty + 10-28% lost to the deferred income tax (depending on your tax bracket) + lost future gains + the unquantifiable sense of long term security seems to be a steep price to pay to avoid a ~7% ish student loan. Especially if your non-big law aspirations qualify you for IBR and loan forgiveness.

I don't turn 30 for a few more months but I want to jump in here. If you roll the money to an IRA and then take it out it's penalty-free. Ideally you'd take it out during your first full calendar year in law school, when your income is at its lowest. Depending on how much is in there you may not ending up paying any tax at all. There's really no right or wrong answer here; I used mine for tuition payments but I'm not convinced it was the right call. Just know that if you do decide to withdraw the money you need to roll it to an IRA first to avoid the penalty.

Agree--there are ways around the 10% penalty. But you'll still have the tax and other costs. If the balance is low enough that it doesn't exceed your exemptions and deductions, it isn't going to make much of a dent. In 2014, the Married Filing Joint Standard Deduction is 12,400 and Exemptions for 3 would be 11,850. So, assuming OP's spouse also does not work while in school and they make no other money (e.g., rent from their house), the most they'd be able to pull tax free is ~24k/year. A help, but in my personal view, not worth the long-term negative effects on the retirement savings. But then again, I'm a lot closer to the withdrawal window than OP, so maybe that's affecting my opinion.

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Rotor
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Rotor » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:14 pm

Doctolaw wrote:So I am wondering if we need an older than the olders thread, because y'all all seem very young to me! I'm 46, lol.

I've got 3 kids in school and a husband with a successful business, so I'm only really considering one school. However, if I could workout a commute arrangement with a couple of overnights a week, I may consider the one that has already offered big money if my top choice doesn't work out.

It's nice to find other with similar concerns.

Got you beat by a year 8) (though you'll be an older 1L than I was).

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Doctolaw
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Doctolaw » Mon Nov 18, 2013 12:44 pm

Rotor wrote:
Doctolaw wrote:So I am wondering if we need an older than the olders thread, because y'all all seem very young to me! I'm 46, lol.

I've got 3 kids in school and a husband with a successful business, so I'm only really considering one school. However, if I could workout a commute arrangement with a couple of overnights a week, I may consider the one that has already offered big money if my top choice doesn't work out.

It's nice to find other with similar concerns.

Got you beat by a year 8) (though you'll be an older 1L than I was).


It's funny. In my head I'm so much younger. I'm convince that the mirror is a lying liar.

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BVest
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby BVest » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:47 pm

Doctolaw wrote:It's funny. In my head I'm so much younger. I'm convince that the mirror is a lying liar.

And I was convinced for years that my barber was cutting my hair on top a little shorter each time just to screw with me.

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spleenworship
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Nov 18, 2013 6:16 pm

I'm just glad the baldness is going faster than the salt and pepper.

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chem!
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby chem! » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:19 am

Doctolaw wrote:
Rotor wrote:
Doctolaw wrote:So I am wondering if we need an older than the olders thread, because y'all all seem very young to me! I'm 46, lol.

I've got 3 kids in school and a husband with a successful business, so I'm only really considering one school. However, if I could workout a commute arrangement with a couple of overnights a week, I may consider the one that has already offered big money if my top choice doesn't work out.

It's nice to find other with similar concerns.

Got you beat by a year 8) (though you'll be an older 1L than I was).


It's funny. In my head I'm so much younger. I'm convince that the mirror is a lying liar.

Yep. I feel young inside, but after getting 2 hours of sleep last night, courtesy of my open memo, I feel 162 right now.




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