OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

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run26.2
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby run26.2 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:03 am

spleenworship wrote:
run26.2 wrote:
CAteacherguy wrote:My dream job is to work as an attorney in the Dept. of Ed's Office of Civil Rights. What I'm trying to figure out is which school is going to give me the most viable possibility of making that happen.

I question whether this goal is a viable possibility out of any of the schools you listed. Government jobs are hard to get coming out of any school, and especially hard out of any outside of H/Y/S. You need to be high up in the class. If you simply want any government job, then you open more doors (but it will still be tough!).

So you should think about what your back-up plan would be if you don't get a government job. I.e. would you be happy working in private practice if it weren't "biglaw?" I would suggest that a public interest job is not really a good fallback plan, because those jobs are also pretty hard to get.

Just something to keep in mind.


Disagree with this advice. About 10-15% of my crappy T2 3Ls get's PI jobs, including (but not limited to) DOJ, USAtty, and IRS every year. While the majority is stuff like PD/DA/JAG/Legal Aid, it is totally doable from a crappier school, even ITE.

You would call 10-15% totally doable? I would not. Even if you factor in a few more percent for biglaw and clerkships (say 15% total), that's still a max of 30%. I don't think that's a good bet either.

At my school, people who were in the top 10-15% were not able to get PI jobs in DC that they wanted. In DC, people who are selective w/r/t PI are going to have trouble. To your point about the types of PI people get, PD/DA jobs in DC are going to be very competitive. Maybe the poster can get something that no one else wants to do, but it probably will not pay very well (not that any of these jobs, with the exception of DA, is going to do much to help the poster afford living in DC). And even if some less desirable PI is reasonably obtainable, that supports the point I was making, which is that the poster needs to think about whether these alternatives to her/his "dream job" are ones that she/he is interested in doing.

To return to the poster's particular question about which school would make this option most viable, the truth is that the chances of the poster's dream job happening from even an elite school is very low, and from any of the aforementioned schools, even lower. GULC would probably give the best chance, but still, the odds would be very much against achieving this particular outcome.

Tabemaju
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Tabemaju » Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:51 am

Hey everyone - I'm glad I found this thread. I'm not technically over 30, but I do have a wife and 2 kids, so hopefully that qualifies me. I'm 29 and although everyone is pushing me to law school, I'm still on the fence.

Currently, I'm doing injury claims for a large insurance company. Right now I'm making around 50k and although it isn't my dream job, it's stable, and the benefits are good. I've been here for a year since graduating with an undergrad in Political Science and Philosophy. I've been promoted twice since I've been here, going from 35k to 50k in a year. From here on out, my advancement opportunities are going to slow significantly, as I'll need at least 3-5 years experience for any more upward mobility. In college, I was convinced law school was the next step, and I was super excited... until I got this job, then I started to question the whole stability versus want thing. I was an older undergrad student too, so I've only really been out for a year and a half.

My background consists of 8 years of customer service/sales, 1 year of insurance, 1 year of bail bonds, and some legal internships at the Public Defender's Office. Currently, I spend most of my day working with personal injury attorneys and, quite honestly, believe I would be perfectly suited for that type of work and, with my background, I'm hoping I'd be desireable for some smaller or mid-sized firms.

Currently, I have about 30k in undergrad debt, and I would likely be doubling it for law school (a liberal estimate would be 80k total debt once I'm out). The school I'm looking at is outside the top 100 and I would be getting a full or close-to full scholarship, but I would have to take out some living loans to cover the 3 years. My wife works part time, but it likely won't cover all of our expenses. As I said, I have 2 kids, so moving is not really an option right now.

My wife, law school advisor, and my wife's father - a law professor - are all telling me now might be the time. The grownup in me keeps saying that maybe I should give up the whole law school dream, but every other piece of me is convinced that I have to go. I feel like, approaching 30, I need to pull the trigger, or I'd be wasting future experience-building in this job. But then again, I have full health benefits for my family, a 401k, and an inside track for management in 4-5 years. But... what then?

Sorry to be dramatic, but I've been through this in my head countless times. What do you guys think?

nouseforaname123
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby nouseforaname123 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:34 pm

You should talk to some of the younger attorneys you interact with on a daily basis. It's not uncommon for adjusters to go to law school and you should find someone to talk to about it.

I came from a similar background, but I had different goals. Things have worked out for me. Looking back at my decision to go to law school, I think it was a bad risk that I didn't fully appreciate when I enrolled in law school. I just got lucky that things worked out for me.

As for your personal situation, I'm guessing that after 3-5 years you would have a good shot at entry-level management making around $70k/year, working ~45 hours/week, with good benefits? If that's the direction you think you're heading, it's going to be really tough to beat that coming out of law school working personal injury. You might eventually surpass that as a personal injury attorney but it'll probably take years to get there. You should also ask JD Underground. Lots of attorneys doing insurance work post there.

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spleenworship
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:15 pm

run26.2 wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
run26.2 wrote:
CAteacherguy wrote:My dream job is to work as an attorney in the Dept. of Ed's Office of Civil Rights. What I'm trying to figure out is which school is going to give me the most viable possibility of making that happen.

I question whether this goal is a viable possibility out of any of the schools you listed. Government jobs are hard to get coming out of any school, and especially hard out of any outside of H/Y/S. You need to be high up in the class. If you simply want any government job, then you open more doors (but it will still be tough!).

So you should think about what your back-up plan would be if you don't get a government job. I.e. would you be happy working in private practice if it weren't "biglaw?" I would suggest that a public interest job is not really a good fallback plan, because those jobs are also pretty hard to get.

Just something to keep in mind.


Disagree with this advice. About 10-15% of my crappy T2 3Ls get's PI jobs, including (but not limited to) DOJ, USAtty, and IRS every year. While the majority is stuff like PD/DA/JAG/Legal Aid, it is totally doable from a crappier school, even ITE.

You would call 10-15% totally doable? I would not. Even if you factor in a few more percent for biglaw and clerkships (say 15% total), that's still a max of 30%. I don't think that's a good bet either.

At my school, people who were in the top 10-15% were not able to get PI jobs in DC that they wanted. In DC, people who are selective w/r/t PI are going to have trouble. To your point about the types of PI people get, PD/DA jobs in DC are going to be very competitive. Maybe the poster can get something that no one else wants to do, but it probably will not pay very well (not that any of these jobs, with the exception of DA, is going to do much to help the poster afford living in DC). And even if some less desirable PI is reasonably obtainable, that supports the point I was making, which is that the poster needs to think about whether these alternatives to her/his "dream job" are ones that she/he is interested in doing.

To return to the poster's particular question about which school would make this option most viable, the truth is that the chances of the poster's dream job happening from even an elite school is very low, and from any of the aforementioned schools, even lower. GULC would probably give the best chance, but still, the odds would be very much against achieving this particular outcome.


I don't disagree it will be hard. What I disagree with is: a) your assertion that everyone outside of HYS is boned for PI jobs, and b) that it is well nigh impossible for a lower ranked school grad to get preftigious positions. I do agree, though, that the poster needs to have a fair number of backup jobs they'd be willing to take. All I said is that it was doable. If approximately 10% of the people who want PI jobs at my TT school (about thirty percent of the class wants PI, i would estimate, so 10% of that is 3% of my total class) end up with jobs in DC PI (which is way out of market), it is doable. Not easy, but possible.

I'd put money that at least some of the people at ur school in the top 10% who didn't get PI jobs in DC didn't set their resume for PI but were Biglaw focused and used PI as a fallback.

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spleenworship
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:17 pm

Tabemaju wrote:Hey everyone - I'm glad I found this thread. I'm not technically over 30, but I do have a wife and 2 kids, so hopefully that qualifies me. I'm 29 and although everyone is pushing me to law school, I'm still on the fence.

Currently, I'm doing injury claims for a large insurance company. Right now I'm making around 50k and although it isn't my dream job, it's stable, and the benefits are good. I've been here for a year since graduating with an undergrad in Political Science and Philosophy. I've been promoted twice since I've been here, going from 35k to 50k in a year. From here on out, my advancement opportunities are going to slow significantly, as I'll need at least 3-5 years experience for any more upward mobility. In college, I was convinced law school was the next step, and I was super excited... until I got this job, then I started to question the whole stability versus want thing. I was an older undergrad student too, so I've only really been out for a year and a half.

My background consists of 8 years of customer service/sales, 1 year of insurance, 1 year of bail bonds, and some legal internships at the Public Defender's Office. Currently, I spend most of my day working with personal injury attorneys and, quite honestly, believe I would be perfectly suited for that type of work and, with my background, I'm hoping I'd be desireable for some smaller or mid-sized firms.

Currently, I have about 30k in undergrad debt, and I would likely be doubling it for law school (a liberal estimate would be 80k total debt once I'm out). The school I'm looking at is outside the top 100 and I would be getting a full or close-to full scholarship, but I would have to take out some living loans to cover the 3 years. My wife works part time, but it likely won't cover all of our expenses. As I said, I have 2 kids, so moving is not really an option right now.

My wife, law school advisor, and my wife's father - a law professor - are all telling me now might be the time. The grownup in me keeps saying that maybe I should give up the whole law school dream, but every other piece of me is convinced that I have to go. I feel like, approaching 30, I need to pull the trigger, or I'd be wasting future experience-building in this job. But then again, I have full health benefits for my family, a 401k, and an inside track for management in 4-5 years. But... what then?

Sorry to be dramatic, but I've been through this in my head countless times. What do you guys think?


Are you going to wonder what if for the rest of ur life?

Tabemaju
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Tabemaju » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:31 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Tabemaju wrote:Hey everyone - I'm glad I found this thread. I'm not technically over 30, but I do have a wife and 2 kids, so hopefully that qualifies me. I'm 29 and although everyone is pushing me to law school, I'm still on the fence.

Currently, I'm doing injury claims for a large insurance company. Right now I'm making around 50k and although it isn't my dream job, it's stable, and the benefits are good. I've been here for a year since graduating with an undergrad in Political Science and Philosophy. I've been promoted twice since I've been here, going from 35k to 50k in a year. From here on out, my advancement opportunities are going to slow significantly, as I'll need at least 3-5 years experience for any more upward mobility. In college, I was convinced law school was the next step, and I was super excited... until I got this job, then I started to question the whole stability versus want thing. I was an older undergrad student too, so I've only really been out for a year and a half.

My background consists of 8 years of customer service/sales, 1 year of insurance, 1 year of bail bonds, and some legal internships at the Public Defender's Office. Currently, I spend most of my day working with personal injury attorneys and, quite honestly, believe I would be perfectly suited for that type of work and, with my background, I'm hoping I'd be desireable for some smaller or mid-sized firms.

Currently, I have about 30k in undergrad debt, and I would likely be doubling it for law school (a liberal estimate would be 80k total debt once I'm out). The school I'm looking at is outside the top 100 and I would be getting a full or close-to full scholarship, but I would have to take out some living loans to cover the 3 years. My wife works part time, but it likely won't cover all of our expenses. As I said, I have 2 kids, so moving is not really an option right now.

My wife, law school advisor, and my wife's father - a law professor - are all telling me now might be the time. The grownup in me keeps saying that maybe I should give up the whole law school dream, but every other piece of me is convinced that I have to go. I feel like, approaching 30, I need to pull the trigger, or I'd be wasting future experience-building in this job. But then again, I have full health benefits for my family, a 401k, and an inside track for management in 4-5 years. But... what then?

Sorry to be dramatic, but I've been through this in my head countless times. What do you guys think?


Are you going to wonder what if for the rest of ur life?


That's exactly my worry: I don't know if I'll ever shake it. But I'm also not selfish, and I think doing something that may jeopardize any aspect of my family would be extremely selfish. That's why even though everyone is telling me to go, I want to seek further validation. My law school advisor asks me, "what would you tell your daughter/son if they were in this situation?" and the answer seems easy and cliched: follow your dreams. I'm not, however, blind as to how the real world works, and I know as well as anyone that simply "following your dreams" does not equal some sort of eternal bliss. I fully expect both law school and law to be stressful, difficult, and ultimately may take me away from my family more than I want it to, and especially more than my current employment does.

run26.2
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby run26.2 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:15 pm

spleenworship wrote:I don't disagree it will be hard. What I disagree with is: a) your assertion that everyone outside of HYS is boned for PI jobs, and b) that it is well nigh impossible for a lower ranked school grad to get preftigious positions. I do agree, though, that the poster needs to have a fair number of backup jobs they'd be willing to take. All I said is that it was doable. If approximately 10% of the people who want PI jobs at my TT school (about thirty percent of the class wants PI, i would estimate, so 10% of that is 3% of my total class) end up with jobs in DC PI (which is way out of market), it is doable. Not easy, but possible.

I'd put money that at least some of the people at ur school in the top 10% who didn't get PI jobs in DC didn't set their resume for PI but were Biglaw focused and used PI as a fallback.

The point I am making is that essentially no one should believe they can get a particular government or PI position in DC, regardless of school. That's it.

I never asserted that everyone outside HYS is boned for PI jobs. In fact, I made the concession that less desirable PI jobs are "reasonably" obtainable, i.e. may be available to students who are not near the very top of the class.

I also never said it was impossible to get a prestigious PI job from a T2. But this person is talking about DC positions. You are talking about PI jobs generally. As to DC, you admit that 3% of your class gets DC PI jobs. In my mind, if it is a 3% chance of getting the job you want in DC, that's very low and not worth the risk.

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spleenworship
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:16 pm

Tabemaju wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
Are you going to wonder what if for the rest of ur life?


That's exactly my worry: I don't know if I'll ever shake it. But I'm also not selfish, and I think doing something that may jeopardize any aspect of my family would be extremely selfish. That's why even though everyone is telling me to go, I want to seek further validation. My law school advisor asks me, "what would you tell your daughter/son if they were in this situation?" and the answer seems easy and cliched: follow your dreams. I'm not, however, blind as to how the real world works, and I know as well as anyone that simply "following your dreams" does not equal some sort of eternal bliss. I fully expect both law school and law to be stressful, difficult, and ultimately may take me away from my family more than I want it to, and especially more than my current employment does.


Law school isn't horrible on family time, but it isn't easy, it's true. In your situation I would take the LSAT, get some waivers, apply to some schools and then compare the COA to employment ratios for your admitted schools. If you are looking at above a 2/3rds chance of getting a job post grad with less than $70K in debt, then I would do it. But that's just me. YMMV.
Last edited by spleenworship on Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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spleenworship
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:23 pm

run26.2 wrote:The point I am making is that essentially no one should believe they can get a particular government or PI position in DC, regardless of school. That's it.

I never asserted that everyone outside HYS is boned for PI jobs. In fact, I made the concession that less desirable PI jobs are "reasonably" obtainable, i.e. may be available to students who are not near the very top of the class.

I also never said it was impossible to get a prestigious PI job from a T2. But this person is talking about DC positions. You are talking about PI jobs generally. As to DC, you admit that 3% of your class gets DC PI jobs. In my mind, if it is a 3% chance of getting the job you want in DC, that's very low and not worth the risk.


Underlined: I totally agree with you here. No one should expect any particular job in a competitive market like DC (or even in less competitive markets, honestly).

Bolded: No, you didn't assert it. You implied it. I can insert quote if you like.

As to the rest: I think both of us are misunderstanding the other. I'm saying that if 3% of my classmates can get a DC PI position from an out of market T2, then GW or GULC or whatever the poster was talking about probably has a doable position to get the kind of jobs he wants. I'm not saying it is easy, but it probably is "doable." As in worth considering, a not totally unrealistic possibility... provided the poster doesn't expect a specific job, or that it will be easy, or that luck won't be a factor.

Actually, I think we agree more than we disagree. You are just a little more pessimistic than I.

run26.2
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby run26.2 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:42 pm

spleenworship wrote:
run26.2 wrote:The point I am making is that essentially no one should believe they can get a particular government or PI position in DC, regardless of school. That's it.

I never asserted that everyone outside HYS is boned for PI jobs. In fact, I made the concession that less desirable PI jobs are "reasonably" obtainable, i.e. may be available to students who are not near the very top of the class.

I also never said it was impossible to get a prestigious PI job from a T2. But this person is talking about DC positions. You are talking about PI jobs generally. As to DC, you admit that 3% of your class gets DC PI jobs. In my mind, if it is a 3% chance of getting the job you want in DC, that's very low and not worth the risk.


Underlined: I totally agree with you here. No one should expect any particular job in a competitive market like DC (or even in less competitive markets, honestly).

Bolded: No, you didn't assert it. You implied it. I can insert quote if you like.

As to the rest: I think both of us are misunderstanding the other. I'm saying that if 3% of my classmates can get a DC PI position from an out of market T2, then GW or GULC or whatever the poster was talking about probably has a doable position to get the kind of jobs he wants. I'm not saying it is easy, but it probably is "doable." As in worth considering, a not totally unrealistic possibility... provided the poster doesn't expect a specific job, or that it will be easy, or that luck won't be a factor.

Actually, I think we agree more than we disagree. You are just a little more pessimistic than I.

The implication in what I was saying was that if you want to be somewhat selective in PI positions (especially in DC), you need to go to a top school to even come close to making it a viable possibility. Even from a top school, your one dream job may not be a possibility. While there are people at nearly every school that will have a pick of somewhat prestigious PI positions, it is not realistic to go to school thinking you will be in that small group, or that if you are, your one dream job will be available to you.

I also think we agree more than we disagree, but I also feel like you are trying to rewrite what I am saying. I have been trying to say it in a way that encourages the poster to adopt a realistic perspective on the likelihood of getting that dream job, and to be open to the possibility that she or he may have to take a lower paying position, or something that is not ideal (or may not be in the ideal geographical location). Actual prospects coming out of school will likely impact the ability to achieve the particular desires the poster expressed (e.g., living in a particular location, buying a home).

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spleenworship
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:52 pm

run26.2 wrote:The implication in what I was saying was that if you want to be somewhat selective in PI positions (especially in DC), you need to go to a top school to even come close to making it a viable possibility. Even from a top school, your one dream job may not be a possibility. While there are people at nearly every school that will have a pick of somewhat prestigious PI positions, it is not realistic to go to school thinking you will be in that small group, or that if you are, your one dream job will be available to you.

I also think we agree more than we disagree, but I also feel like you are trying to rewrite what I am saying. I have been trying to say it in a way that encourages the poster to adopt a realistic perspective on the likelihood of getting that dream job, and to be open to the possibility that she or he may have to take a lower paying position, or something that is not ideal (or may not be in the ideal geographical location). Actual prospects coming out of school will likely impact the ability to achieve the particular desires the poster expressed (e.g., living in a particular location, buying a home).


fair enough. I think poster got the idea, at least, and there is prolly no point in beating a dead horse at this point.

Tabemaju
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Tabemaju » Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:22 pm

spleenworship wrote:
Tabemaju wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
Are you going to wonder what if for the rest of ur life?


That's exactly my worry: I don't know if I'll ever shake it. But I'm also not selfish, and I think doing something that may jeopardize any aspect of my family would be extremely selfish. That's why even though everyone is telling me to go, I want to seek further validation. My law school advisor asks me, "what would you tell your daughter/son if they were in this situation?" and the answer seems easy and cliched: follow your dreams. I'm not, however, blind as to how the real world works, and I know as well as anyone that simply "following your dreams" does not equal some sort of eternal bliss. I fully expect both law school and law to be stressful, difficult, and ultimately may take me away from my family more than I want it to, and especially more than my current employment does.


Law school isn't horrible on family time, but it isn't easy, it's true. In your situation I would take the LSAT, get some waivers, apply to some schools and then compare the COA to employment ratios for your admitted schools. If you are looking at above a 2/3rds chance of getting a job post grad with less than $70K in debt, then I would do it. But that's just me. YMMV.


Done and done. My numbers are well and above the median for the school I'm wanting to go to. They don't really give full schollys for people without extensive social work or community involvement, but I think I can get them very close. It's a regional school, the best in the area, and I plan on working in this area. Employment numbers aren't much different than every other t3/4 regional school, but I'm hoping my background and connections will land me something. As I said, my father-in-law is a faculty member, and he knows some attorneys in the area that would likely give me a shot - I just don't know if that guarantees employment or the sort of wage capable of making 70-80k loans easy. It all sounds ideal, but it's still a risk.

I applied for about 12 schools last cycle and got into everything I was aiming for (including Berkeley, but not Chicago). I received better sholly offers than I did at my local school, but the cost of moving the family, losing free daycare (inlaws), and her having to find new employment wouldn't be worth a full ride if I can get 80+% at the local school. We're also considering buying a house, since our current rent is significantly more than if we were to buy right now.

I should also mention that my primary goal in the legal field is to eventually open my own firm, which is why I commented on the likely-harsh hours. That's also why I'm not as concerned as I probably should be over going to a 100+ ranked school. I'd like to get my foot in the door at a small firm so I can "learn to be a lawyer" before trying my hand at a solo practice. Again, all ideal, but that's my eventual goal.

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haus
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby haus » Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:14 pm

Heads up, it appear that one of our own has announced departure from law school and TLS(?). For those interested you can pop over to the thread:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=204072

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bluecouch
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby bluecouch » Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:58 pm

Just found this thread and checking in! I'm 30, married, and have a toddler. A little nervous about doing 1L with a kid, but I'm really excited to start next year.

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spleenworship
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:56 pm

bluecouch wrote:Just found this thread and checking in! I'm 30, married, and have a toddler. A little nervous about doing 1L with a kid, but I'm really excited to start next year.


Its not as hard as you fear it will be, provided you are willing to lose a little sleep. Welcome and good luck!

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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby bluecouch » Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:07 pm

spleenworship wrote:
bluecouch wrote:Just found this thread and checking in! I'm 30, married, and have a toddler. A little nervous about doing 1L with a kid, but I'm really excited to start next year.


Its not as hard as you fear it will be, provided you are willing to lose a little sleep. Welcome and good luck!


Thanks! Good to hear. Definitely used to losing sleep at this point :)

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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:11 pm

bluecouch wrote:
spleenworship wrote:
bluecouch wrote:Just found this thread and checking in! I'm 30, married, and have a toddler. A little nervous about doing 1L with a kid, but I'm really excited to start next year.


Its not as hard as you fear it will be, provided you are willing to lose a little sleep. Welcome and good luck!


Thanks! Good to hear. Definitely used to losing sleep at this point :)



I even did OK when my second arrived at the beginning of spring semester. You just don't let your mind and body tell you what to do and power through it and you'll be OK. I honestly believe it is impossible to be top 5% with kids (no one I know with kids is that high), but top 10% is possible, though unlikely (only 1 person out of 20 or so in my class with kids made top 10%). That said, above median and even top 25% are totally possible even with kids and zero sleep. You just have to manage your time better than the 24 year old lucky ass childless bastards (and jealousy, you have to manage that as well, which I'm not so good at).

I've even maintained top 25% while maintaining a relationship with my kids and wife. It's hard sometimes, but you can do it.

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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby DocHawkeye » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:15 am

spleenworship wrote:That said, above median and even top 25% are totally possible even with kids and zero sleep. You just have to manage your time better than the 24 year old lucky ass childless bastards (and jealousy, you have to manage that as well, which I'm not so good at).


I concur. My wife had a baby in the third week of fall semester of my 1L. We also have a 10 year old boy. I managed to stay comfortably within the top half of my class in spite of these and several other major life events (including the death of my father-in-law right before fall semester finals). If you deicde that you're going to do it, then you can do it.

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bluecouch
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby bluecouch » Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:41 am

DocHawkeye wrote:
spleenworship wrote:That said, above median and even top 25% are totally possible even with kids and zero sleep. You just have to manage your time better than the 24 year old lucky ass childless bastards (and jealousy, you have to manage that as well, which I'm not so good at).


I concur. My wife had a baby in the third week of fall semester of my 1L. We also have a 10 year old boy. I managed to stay comfortably within the top half of my class in spite of these and several other major life events (including the death of my father-in-law right before fall semester finals). If you deicde that you're going to do it, then you can do it.


You guys are hard core. I can't imagine being pregnant or having a newborn while trying to do this. (Since I am the mommy around here, I am pretty sure that giving birth during the school year and staying enrolled - let alone doing well - would be literally impossible. And, ugh, the morning sickness...)

It doesn't surprise me that time management seems really important, but it sounds like you guys figured it out and did well. How did you guys manage your 1L schedule? Did you treat it like an 8-to-6 sort of job with a firm separation between school and home? Did you study for several hours after your kids went to bed (although the idea of a newborn "going to bed" in any meaningful sense makes me chuckle since my kid never seemed to sleep more than 3 hours at a time for the first 9 months)? Can you share any strategies you have for making it work and doing well in 1L?

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chem!
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby chem! » Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:17 pm

DocHawkeye wrote:
spleenworship wrote:That said, above median and even top 25% are totally possible even with kids and zero sleep. You just have to manage your time better than the 24 year old lucky ass childless bastards (and jealousy, you have to manage that as well, which I'm not so good at).


I concur. My wife had a baby in the third week of fall semester of my 1L. We also have a 10 year old boy. I managed to stay comfortably within the top half of my class in spite of these and several other major life events (including the death of my father-in-law right before fall semester finals). If you deicde that you're going to do it, then you can do it.

This is good to hear. I have two sons, ages 12 and 14, and am 97% sure I'll be attending SMU PT in the fall. I'll be leaving my job to do so, but we're fortunate enough to be in a position that does not call for any student loans.

Having said that, it is really scary to walk away from what I call my "frosting" income and become reliant upon my husband for the next few years. I'm hoping to offset some of the loss by tutoring and substituting once I figure out how to manage studying and mothering. My boys both play sports, so a lot of help will be coming from family when my husband is out of town and I'm at school in the evenings. Some things get easier as the kids get older, but some things get harder.

Wishing all of you the best. I alternate between sheer terror and exhilaration at the prospect of law school.

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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:59 pm

bluecouch wrote:
DocHawkeye wrote:
spleenworship wrote:That said, above median and even top 25% are totally possible even with kids and zero sleep. You just have to manage your time better than the 24 year old lucky ass childless bastards (and jealousy, you have to manage that as well, which I'm not so good at).


I concur. My wife had a baby in the third week of fall semester of my 1L. We also have a 10 year old boy. I managed to stay comfortably within the top half of my class in spite of these and several other major life events (including the death of my father-in-law right before fall semester finals). If you deicde that you're going to do it, then you can do it.


You guys are hard core. I can't imagine being pregnant or having a newborn while trying to do this. (Since I am the mommy around here, I am pretty sure that giving birth during the school year and staying enrolled - let alone doing well - would be literally impossible. And, ugh, the morning sickness...)

It doesn't surprise me that time management seems really important, but it sounds like you guys figured it out and did well. How did you guys manage your 1L schedule? Did you treat it like an 8-to-6 sort of job with a firm separation between school and home? Did you study for several hours after your kids went to bed (although the idea of a newborn "going to bed" in any meaningful sense makes me chuckle since my kid never seemed to sleep more than 3 hours at a time for the first 9 months)? Can you share any strategies you have for making it work and doing well in 1L?


My 1l schedule:

8:30-5:30 M-Th. 8:30-3:30 F. Sat. off. Sunday 2-6.

M-Th nights if I still had work to do I'd do it after kids were in bed. 0-3 hours a night, depending (LRW assignments tended to be 3 hours, catching up on reading was 1-2 hours... Some nights i just watched tv with the wife).

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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:00 pm

chem! wrote:
DocHawkeye wrote:
spleenworship wrote:That said, above median and even top 25% are totally possible even with kids and zero sleep. You just have to manage your time better than the 24 year old lucky ass childless bastards (and jealousy, you have to manage that as well, which I'm not so good at).


I concur. My wife had a baby in the third week of fall semester of my 1L. We also have a 10 year old boy. I managed to stay comfortably within the top half of my class in spite of these and several other major life events (including the death of my father-in-law right before fall semester finals). If you deicde that you're going to do it, then you can do it.

This is good to hear. I have two sons, ages 12 and 14, and am 97% sure I'll be attending SMU PT in the fall. I'll be leaving my job to do so, but we're fortunate enough to be in a position that does not call for any student loans.

Having said that, it is really scary to walk away from what I call my "frosting" income and become reliant upon my husband for the next few years. I'm hoping to offset some of the loss by tutoring and substituting once I figure out how to manage studying and mothering. My boys both play sports, so a lot of help will be coming from family when my husband is out of town and I'm at school in the evenings. Some things get easier as the kids get older, but some things get harder.

Wishing all of you the best. I alternate between sheer terror and exhilaration at the prospect of law school.


You're gonna rock it chica!

Don't forget that beer if you come to ski in the state.

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bluecouch
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby bluecouch » Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:07 pm

spleenworship wrote:
bluecouch wrote:
DocHawkeye wrote:
spleenworship wrote:That said, above median and even top 25% are totally possible even with kids and zero sleep. You just have to manage your time better than the 24 year old lucky ass childless bastards (and jealousy, you have to manage that as well, which I'm not so good at).


I concur. My wife had a baby in the third week of fall semester of my 1L. We also have a 10 year old boy. I managed to stay comfortably within the top half of my class in spite of these and several other major life events (including the death of my father-in-law right before fall semester finals). If you deicde that you're going to do it, then you can do it.


You guys are hard core. I can't imagine being pregnant or having a newborn while trying to do this. (Since I am the mommy around here, I am pretty sure that giving birth during the school year and staying enrolled - let alone doing well - would be literally impossible. And, ugh, the morning sickness...)

It doesn't surprise me that time management seems really important, but it sounds like you guys figured it out and did well. How did you guys manage your 1L schedule? Did you treat it like an 8-to-6 sort of job with a firm separation between school and home? Did you study for several hours after your kids went to bed (although the idea of a newborn "going to bed" in any meaningful sense makes me chuckle since my kid never seemed to sleep more than 3 hours at a time for the first 9 months)? Can you share any strategies you have for making it work and doing well in 1L?


My 1l schedule:

8:30-5:30 M-Th. 8:30-3:30 F. Sat. off. Sunday 2-6.

M-Th nights if I still had work to do I'd do it after kids were in bed. 0-3 hours a night, depending (LRW assignments tended to be 3 hours, catching up on reading was 1-2 hours... Some nights i just watched tv with the wife).


Thanks, spleen! That sched seems pretty doable :)

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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby rufus&miles » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:19 am

Hi all! I was hoping to get the opinion of some other people who might be in a similar situation when making decisions on choosing schools.

I am married and have applied broadly to make sure I have some good options for schools, however now that I am looking more closely at some of their locations I am beginning to worry that my husband won't be able to find a job in some of these cities (WUSTL, IU-B, W&M) and the cities I don't think he will have an issue finding a job are more expensive and I have yet to get any scholarship offers for these schools (BC, GW).

I feel like a lot of the typical TLS advice about whether the debt load is reasonable is less true when you have to add the possibility of having an unemployeed or underemployed spouse into the mix.

Any advice or rational thought I can add to this process would be appreciated.

nouseforaname123
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby nouseforaname123 » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:35 am

rufus&miles wrote:Hi all! I was hoping to get the opinion of some other people who might be in a similar situation when making decisions on choosing schools.

I am married and have applied broadly to make sure I have some good options for schools, however now that I am looking more closely at some of their locations I am beginning to worry that my husband won't be able to find a job in some of these cities (WUSTL, IU-B, W&M) and the cities I don't think he will have an issue finding a job are more expensive and I have yet to get any scholarship offers for these schools (BC, GW).

I feel like a lot of the typical TLS advice about whether the debt load is reasonable is less true when you have to add the possibility of having an unemployeed or underemployed spouse into the mix.

Any advice or rational thought I can add to this process would be appreciated.


1. What do you want to do with your law degree and where do you want to practice?

2. Where are you from and what other areas do you have significant ties to?




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