OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
Hutz_and_Goodman
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:42 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:01 pm

What kind of luck have people had with 1L SAs? I got crazy lucky/was very surprised to end up in the top ten people in my class, so now I'm trying to figure out how many applications to send and where to send because I think I may have a decent chance at one. Im applying to every OCI firm as well as twenty or so Vault/NLJ250 firms in my state. At the same time, I have a lot of reading to do for class (and other stuff; as we all do) that I'm not really sure how to allocate time.

(Btw I go to a T40).

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Fri Jan 25, 2013 7:52 pm

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:What kind of luck have people had with 1L SAs? I got crazy lucky/was very surprised to end up in the top ten people in my class, so now I'm trying to figure out how many applications to send and where to send because I think I may have a decent chance at one. Im applying to every OCI firm as well as twenty or so Vault/NLJ250 firms in my state. At the same time, I have a lot of reading to do for class (and other stuff; as we all do) that I'm not really sure how to allocate time.

(Btw I go to a T40).



I was top third, got only two intereviews out of eight apps. But I go to a T2 and I didn't target very well. So YMWUV.

User avatar
elterrible78
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:09 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby elterrible78 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 11:39 am

Just checking into this thread. I'm 34, and just applying this cycle. It's nice to know there are plenty more "olds" out there!

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:46 pm

elterrible78 wrote:Just checking into this thread. I'm 34, and just applying this cycle. It's nice to know there are plenty more "olds" out there!



Welcome!

run26.2
Posts: 897
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:35 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby run26.2 » Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:56 pm

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:What kind of luck have people had with 1L SAs? I got crazy lucky/was very surprised to end up in the top ten people in my class, so now I'm trying to figure out how many applications to send and where to send because I think I may have a decent chance at one. Im applying to every OCI firm as well as twenty or so Vault/NLJ250 firms in my state. At the same time, I have a lot of reading to do for class (and other stuff; as we all do) that I'm not really sure how to allocate time.

(Btw I go to a T40).

In that position, you probably have a very good chance of getting a 1L SA. Targetted applications are much better than mass mailings, so I would recommend getting in contact with an alumnus from your school at the firm and working that way. You're early in the semester, so you can probably afford to put off your reading for the time being to take care of your apps. Just get the apps done soon.

If you don't have too many ties, you may want to consider transferring to improve opportunities (for 2L SAs, long-term career). At the same time, you are high enough that you may want to stay put. Obviously, there will be a lot of factors beyond your performance in school that can influence such a decision, it can make sense in certain cases. I was between top 10% and 15% after 1L and transferred, and I think it was the right decision. Happy to answer questions if you have any.

Good luck.

nanochick
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2007 7:05 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby nanochick » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:15 pm

Checking in at 33, still deciding if it's worth the risk of leaving a good job for law uncertainty. Good luck to my fellow "old timers" :)

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Wed Feb 06, 2013 8:36 pm

nanochick wrote:Checking in at 33, still deciding if it's worth the risk of leaving a good job for law uncertainty. Good luck to my fellow "old timers" :)



I freaked out about it too....

sometimes I still worry I made a mistake, even though I'm generally glad I left the job that made me unhappy for this.

User avatar
chem!
Posts: 9380
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:03 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby chem! » Wed Feb 06, 2013 9:28 pm

nanochick wrote:Checking in at 33, still deciding if it's worth the risk of leaving a good job for law uncertainty. Good luck to my fellow "old timers" :)

I'm well over 30 and feeling the same way. Having said that, I'm badly burned out and disillusioned with the current state of public education. I have gotten to the point where I need out before I say or do something that cannot possibly result in anything good for my teaching career.

Good luck!

albanach
Posts: 1011
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:05 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby albanach » Thu Feb 07, 2013 12:43 pm

nanochick wrote:Checking in at 33, still deciding if it's worth the risk of leaving a good job for law uncertainty. Good luck to my fellow "old timers" :)


What do you want to do with your law degree? What sort of life do you want to live post graduation? Do you have a family? If not do you want one/expect to start one? What sory of school do you expect to be admitted to? Do you enjoy the job that you have? Why do you want to switch to law?

Hutz_and_Goodman
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:42 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:23 pm

nanochick wrote:Checking in at 33, still deciding if it's worth the risk of leaving a good job for law uncertainty. Good luck to my fellow "old timers" :)


Feel free to PM me. I'm a 1L now, and left a secure job but one where I was not making much $ and there wasn't much room for growth. I would say that if you're making six figures it wouldn't make sense to leave your job unless you are admitted to HYS or you are absolutely positive that you want to do some type of PI work and are ready and willing to take a pay cut. I say that because the cost of law school and the expected salary for an attorney make it such that there is almost no situation where it is worth it. But if you have a job that you dislike, you aren't making much $, and there are other factors, then it may be a good option.

I have been thrilled with the choice so far, and it has been exciting going through a ton of interviews for 1L summer. I find the material in law school interesting, and if anything I like classes this semester better than the fall. So I believe it can definitely be the right choice depending on the circumstances.

User avatar
bandenjamin
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 3:25 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby bandenjamin » Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:36 pm

36 applying this term. For you other olds, are you bringing a spouse along? How much of your decisions on where to go emphasize the job market for their career when you're trying to decide? Would you drop a reasonably good school with scholarship in a tiny market (say Alabama) since there aren't a lot of options there for your SO?

User avatar
helterskelter
Posts: 54
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:25 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby helterskelter » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:23 pm

30 here. We own a house within commuting distance of eight or so schools, but I'm not very keen on any of them (only applied to the two T1s). I am 95% sure that I'll be leaving my husband behind to go to school in the area in which we plan to end up eventually. He's sort of looked for a job there, but his company is planning to open an office in that area in the next few years so it makes more sense for him to stay with them and transfer (or I guess look for a job in three years if they don't open that office). It's sad because I am less worried about being away from him (he worked abroad for nine months and left me behind, so a couple hundred miles' distance seems insigificant) as I am about leaving our dogs. Heartless? We've talked about monthly visits and "sharing custody," so we'll make it work. Still, I'm nervous about not having my support system during what will presumably be a very stressful time.

User avatar
elterrible78
Posts: 1108
Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:09 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby elterrible78 » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:37 pm

helterskelter wrote:30 here. We own a house within commuting distance of eight or so schools, but I'm not very keen on any of them (only applied to the two T1s). I am 95% sure that I'll be leaving my husband behind to go to school in the area in which we plan to end up eventually. He's sort of looked for a job there, but his company is planning to open an office in that area in the next few years so it makes more sense for him to stay with them and transfer (or I guess look for a job in three years if they don't open that office). It's sad because I am less worried about being away from him (he worked abroad for nine months and left me behind, so a couple hundred miles' distance seems insigificant) as I am about leaving our dogs. Heartless? We've talked about monthly visits and "sharing custody," so we'll make it work. Still, I'm nervous about not having my support system during what will presumably be a very stressful time.


My wife and I are planning on living apart for my 1L year, at least. I don't think it will be easy, and I guess everybody's situation is different, but I think I'll be able to focus a little more easily during what, from all accounts, is a year in which you really have to focus. Maybe it will work out the same way for you?

User avatar
pruufreadr
Posts: 71
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:47 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby pruufreadr » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:47 pm

bandenjamin wrote:36 applying this term. For you other olds, are you bringing a spouse along? How much of your decisions on where to go emphasize the job market for their career when you're trying to decide? Would you drop a reasonably good school with scholarship in a tiny market (say Alabama) since there aren't a lot of options there for your SO?


Bring your spouse. I'm bringing mine. The deal we had is that I narrowed down the list of law schools I was interested in attending, and he picked a location from my list. I absolutely would drop a reasonably good school with a scholarship for a location that my husband would prefer to live, attend school, and/or work.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22846
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:56 pm

helterskelter wrote:30 here. We own a house within commuting distance of eight or so schools, but I'm not very keen on any of them (only applied to the two T1s). I am 95% sure that I'll be leaving my husband behind to go to school in the area in which we plan to end up eventually. He's sort of looked for a job there, but his company is planning to open an office in that area in the next few years so it makes more sense for him to stay with them and transfer (or I guess look for a job in three years if they don't open that office). It's sad because I am less worried about being away from him (he worked abroad for nine months and left me behind, so a couple hundred miles' distance seems insigificant) as I am about leaving our dogs. Heartless? We've talked about monthly visits and "sharing custody," so we'll make it work. Still, I'm nervous about not having my support system during what will presumably be a very stressful time.

I totally know what you mean - right now, while I'm clerking, I'm living away from my husband, and OUR CATS. I so totally miss the cats, whom he shows me on Skype but aren't exactly very good Skype conversationalists. (Okay, I miss him a lot, too.) On the one hand, it was nice having him around for support during 1L, but on the other, I kind of tended to ignore him entirely during finals, so there can be pluses to being on your own when you have to really focus on the work.

(Hi - snuck into this thread, already did the choose-a-law-school thing but am old - started LS at 39 - so wanted to wish everyone well.)
Last edited by A. Nony Mouse on Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
CAteacherguy
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:28 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby CAteacherguy » Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:24 am

Hi fellow "old" folks:

I'm so excited to see this thread! I've posted a version of this post in a couple other forums, but haven't felt like most of the responses really "get" my situation, which --like many on this board, I'm sure -- is a little more complicated than it would be if I were in my early 20s. Here's my situation:

I'm 33, partnered, currently live in Northern California, and *know* that BigLaw isn't for me. I also know that I don't want to spend forever paying off loans and that we do want to have kids and own a home within a few years of my graduation from law school. Starting at one school and then transferring after 1L is not a viable possibility for me -- I can't ask my partner to relocate twice in two years. I'm currently considering (very seriously) UCI's full tuition + fees offer (Public Service Fellowship) vs. GW (with $20K/year and no stips). I'm in at Georgetown, but not really considering it unless they offer me some $$, which is pretty unlikely. We ultimately would like to live in the DC area, which is where I'm from... and we definitely do NOT want to end up living in Orange County long-term.

My dream job is to work as an attorney in the Dept. of Ed's Office of Civil Rights. What I'm trying to figure out is which school is going to give me the most viable possibility of making that happen.

As I see it right now, the pros of GW for me are that it's ranked, it's in DC, and it places lots of grads in gov. positions. The *huge* negatives for me are the size of the school (~500 1Ls), the school culture, and that I would walk away with ~120K in debt, even with a little help from my folks, which might actually make it financially impossible for me to take a public service job. I'm also a little dismayed by the very recent article revealing that 20% of GW's class of 2012 is in school-funded short-term positions.

The UCI situation for me (as I see it): rolling the dice by going to an unranked school (negative); no real data on which to base grads' success with government positions (negative), but strong clerking numbers (big positive); small size of the school and engaged school culture (huge positive for me); the UCDC program looks exciting to me and might allow me to do an internship in my dream job; NO DEBT! (thanks to parental help with basic living expenses); location in the OC is a huge negative for us; and not being able to get a job outside of SoCal post-graduation is the biggest possible negative; focus on public service is a positive, but not a deciding factor for me. Basically, I think UCI is my dream school, but is located entirely in the wrong place for me.

Opinions? Thoughts? Things I haven't considered yet?

-CAteacherguy

albanach
Posts: 1011
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:05 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby albanach » Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:47 pm

CAteacherguy wrote:Hi fellow "old" folks: ...

As I see it right now, the pros of GW for me are that it's ranked, it's in DC, and it places lots of grads in gov. positions. The *huge* negatives for me are the size of the school (~500 1Ls), the school culture, and that I would walk away with ~120K in debt, even with a little help from my folks, which might actually make it financially impossible for me to take a public service job.


I believe that if you're in a public service job and earning, say, $55k, your repayments are about the same if you borrow $60k or $200k. That would assume you're still single or married filing separately for tax status. That also assumes you can find a public service position upon graduation.

If you really have an interest in public service, you need to do the calculations based on your IBR repayments, not your debt load at graduation. Also take a look at each school's LRAP program.

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:58 pm

bandenjamin wrote:36 applying this term. For you other olds, are you bringing a spouse along? How much of your decisions on where to go emphasize the job market for their career when you're trying to decide? Would you drop a reasonably good school with scholarship in a tiny market (say Alabama) since there aren't a lot of options there for your SO?



I only applied to schools where my SO could stand, then narrowed down the ones I was accepted to to a list of like 3 where COA to job prospects ratios were acceptable and let her have input on those three until we came to a decision together where I would go.

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:15 pm

CAteacherguy wrote:Hi fellow "old" folks:

I'm so excited to see this thread! I've posted a version of this post in a couple other forums, but haven't felt like most of the responses really "get" my situation, which --like many on this board, I'm sure -- is a little more complicated than it would be if I were in my early 20s. Here's my situation:

I'm 33, partnered, currently live in Northern California, and *know* that BigLaw isn't for me. I also know that I don't want to spend forever paying off loans and that we do want to have kids and own a home within a few years of my graduation from law school. Starting at one school and then transferring after 1L is not a viable possibility for me -- I can't ask my partner to relocate twice in two years. I'm currently considering (very seriously) UCI's full tuition + fees offer (Public Service Fellowship) vs. GW (with $20K/year and no stips). I'm in at Georgetown, but not really considering it unless they offer me some $$, which is pretty unlikely. We ultimately would like to live in the DC area, which is where I'm from... and we definitely do NOT want to end up living in Orange County long-term.

My dream job is to work as an attorney in the Dept. of Ed's Office of Civil Rights. What I'm trying to figure out is which school is going to give me the most viable possibility of making that happen.

As I see it right now, the pros of GW for me are that it's ranked, it's in DC, and it places lots of grads in gov. positions. The *huge* negatives for me are the size of the school (~500 1Ls), the school culture, and that I would walk away with ~120K in debt, even with a little help from my folks, which might actually make it financially impossible for me to take a public service job. I'm also a little dismayed by the very recent article revealing that 20% of GW's class of 2012 is in school-funded short-term positions.

The UCI situation for me (as I see it): rolling the dice by going to an unranked school (negative); no real data on which to base grads' success with government positions (negative), but strong clerking numbers (big positive); small size of the school and engaged school culture (huge positive for me); the UCDC program looks exciting to me and might allow me to do an internship in my dream job; NO DEBT! (thanks to parental help with basic living expenses); location in the OC is a huge negative for us; and not being able to get a job outside of SoCal post-graduation is the biggest possible negative; focus on public service is a positive, but not a deciding factor for me. Basically, I think UCI is my dream school, but is located entirely in the wrong place for me.

Opinions? Thoughts? Things I haven't considered yet?

-CAteacherguy



I would do UCI law over GW. UCI is probably going to have decent job prospects. Probably. But even if they don't you are talking FREE. FREE is good. GW does put 65% of their grads in real law jobs... but if you are in the wrong third you are going to be hating life with $120K in debt. Hating it.

YMMV

Yossarian79
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:34 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Yossarian79 » Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:27 pm

CAteacherguy,

Congrats on your acceptances. I'm a current DC resident, 33, married with a new baby (yay!), and recently left a good but not particularly fulfilling federal government job in order to first be a stay-at-home Dad and then go off to law school.

Personally, given your goals, I'd think seriously about Georgetown. GW is developing a reputation as a bit of a "trap" school, in that it is pretty highly ranked but doesn't have the employment numbers to justify its current prestige. Plus, even with some money from them you'll still be in big-time debt, and will need to use a great LRAP if you stick with public interest to keep your monthly payments anywhere close to manageable. I know Georgetown's LRAP is really good, and GW's isn't as solid. Plus, working for the feds, especially in a highly sought-after civil rights job, means you'll be competing with some super-elite people. Unfortunately, I think that means you'll need to do T14 to even get your foot in the door. If you haven't already, it might also be worth it to apply to UVA -- they're obviously in the general area, are a Top 10 school, and if I'm not mistaken have a very good LRAP. Good luck with everything!

User avatar
steelythews
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 5:52 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby steelythews » Mon Feb 11, 2013 9:06 pm

...
Last edited by steelythews on Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

delusional
Posts: 1190
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:57 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby delusional » Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:50 am

steelythews wrote:Just checking in on this very helpful thread. 30, married, no kids yet but will be 32 when I finally start law school. I'm a bit concerned about my age because I haven't really done anything, especially compared to other applicants my age. Dropped out of college 7 years ago after terrible grades for 3 semesters, went back a few years later and did much better. I've worked full time for the last 10 years or so but it is primarily crap work experience like call centers so that I could still attend school. Now that I've graduated I'm having a hard time finding better work. Will likely be at my current entry-level job until I move for law school and I'm worried about what schools will think about my total lack of achievement. Anyone with a similar profile that could share their experience/insight?
Get an awesome LSAT score. I was in a similar situation, and it worked for me.

run26.2
Posts: 897
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:35 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby run26.2 » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:49 am

CAteacherguy wrote:My dream job is to work as an attorney in the Dept. of Ed's Office of Civil Rights. What I'm trying to figure out is which school is going to give me the most viable possibility of making that happen.

I question whether this goal is a viable possibility out of any of the schools you listed. Government jobs are hard to get coming out of any school, and especially hard out of any outside of H/Y/S. You need to be high up in the class. If you simply want any government job, then you open more doors (but it will still be tough!).

So you should think about what your back-up plan would be if you don't get a government job. I.e. would you be happy working in private practice if it weren't "biglaw?" I would suggest that a public interest job is not really a good fallback plan, because those jobs are also pretty hard to get.

Just something to keep in mind.

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:56 am

steelythews wrote:Just checking in on this very helpful thread. 30, married, no kids yet but will be 32 when I finally start law school. I'm a bit concerned about my age because I haven't really done anything, especially compared to other applicants my age. Dropped out of college 7 years ago after terrible grades for 3 semesters, went back a few years later and did much better. I've worked full time for the last 10 years or so but it is primarily crap work experience like call centers so that I could still attend school. Now that I've graduated I'm having a hard time finding better work. Will likely be at my current entry-level job until I move for law school and I'm worried about what schools will think about my total lack of achievement. Anyone with a similar profile that could share their experience/insight?


It was implied above, but lemme make this clear...

There is one good thing going for you here: The majority of schools could give less than two flying farts about you as a holistic candidate. GPA + LSAT is 85-95% of the game. If you can't spin your call center experience into some kind of positive on an applications essay enough to make up the remaining 15%, you prolly wouldn't make a good attorney anyway. :wink:

Good luck!

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Feb 12, 2013 2:58 am

run26.2 wrote:
CAteacherguy wrote:My dream job is to work as an attorney in the Dept. of Ed's Office of Civil Rights. What I'm trying to figure out is which school is going to give me the most viable possibility of making that happen.

I question whether this goal is a viable possibility out of any of the schools you listed. Government jobs are hard to get coming out of any school, and especially hard out of any outside of H/Y/S. You need to be high up in the class. If you simply want any government job, then you open more doors (but it will still be tough!).

So you should think about what your back-up plan would be if you don't get a government job. I.e. would you be happy working in private practice if it weren't "biglaw?" I would suggest that a public interest job is not really a good fallback plan, because those jobs are also pretty hard to get.

Just something to keep in mind.


Disagree with this advice. About 10-15% of my crappy T2 3Ls get's PI jobs, including (but not limited to) DOJ, USAtty, and IRS every year. While the majority is stuff like PD/DA/JAG/Legal Aid, it is totally doable from a crappier school, even ITE.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests