OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
r6_philly
Posts: 10707
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 05, 2012 1:41 am

t-ender wrote:
Diversity SAs or not?


1 yes 1 no. IP though.

User avatar
Rotor
Posts: 917
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:06 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Rotor » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:31 am

JCFindley wrote:
caseyw wrote:Wow, Glad I found this thread! I made my first post asking about some preliminary studies I could do and was getting reamed by people in another thread! I'm 37 married, with one little one and another on the way, been self employeed for 10 years but have always wanted to go to law school I thought it was too late but one of my customers started law school at 38 and now loves being an attorney and a couple of my other friends who are attorneys said I should go for it. I will have to keep checking in on this thread, would be great if there was it's own section?


Welcome Case.....

I am new to this forum and this thread. So far this thread seems somewhat of a reprieve from the "Sit out a cycle, retake your LSAT and get a scholarship to a T14 school or don't go" advice that seems rather prevalent on here.

Being nosy I had to go look at your other posts and the responses..... While your path may not be the best to find the 160K "Big Law" job only YOU can decide if it is worth it for your own goals. That concept does not seem to be well accepted on the forum at large. You can ask one thing but as often as not the responses are sit out a year, join the peace corps or any other number of answers to questions that weren't asked.

Anyhoo, welcome.......

JC


Casey, I'll just back up what JC said. Many folks around TLS analyze the cost/benefit exclusively in dollars and cents terms. While that indeed is a major component, what we in this thread have learned is that there is intrinsic value in things other than $. That's why our calculus sometimes comes out differently than what a lot of the frustrated ibank analysts come up with.

I didn't go find the other thread you are talking about, but just distill the venom from their posts and take the essence into consideration when weighing ALL of your factors together. Only you can determine what weight to give everything.

Good luck!

sidhesadie
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby sidhesadie » Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:59 am

I also think that the other piece of information/calculation that the people in this thread add in, that you WON'T see in most of the other threads asking if it's 'worth it' is this:

24 year olds, bless their hearts, DO NOT KNOW what it is like to go to work, 10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week, doing something you HATE for YEARS on end. They just don't. They worked a summer job they hated and they think it's the same thing. Well, it isn't. It also isn't the same when a job you hate is taking time from your KIDS as when it's taking time from your party-ability. They mean well, and for their situation, their calculations make perfect sense. Mid thirties with a family? You have a different calculation to make.
So in their calculation, it cannot possibly be worth it to take on debt in order to potentially make the same or only a bit more money than you made before.

Some of us know that it is. IF you love what you're doing. And I know lots of attorneys who love what they are doing, in all different varieties of law ('biglaw', 'midlaw', 'shitlaw', government work, etc).

Obviously, having a family also means you have to be more mindful of the money, which is why a strong regional school in the area you want to practice, with a scholarship, can make more sense for some of us than it would for a 24 year old. If your spouse has a job, that has to be factored in, too. Kids ties to their school, etc. I don't think "T14 or don't go" is always the right answer in our situations.

User avatar
JCFindley
Posts: 1283
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:19 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby JCFindley » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:06 pm

sidhesadie wrote:24 year olds, bless their hearts, DO NOT KNOW what it is like to go to work, 10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week, doing something you HATE for YEARS on end. They just don't. They worked a summer job they hated and they think it's the same thing. Well, it isn't. It also isn't the same when a job you hate is taking time from your KIDS as when it's taking time from your party-ability. They mean well, and for their situation, their calculations make perfect sense. Mid thirties with a family? You have a different calculation to make.
So in their calculation, it cannot possibly be worth it to take on debt in order to potentially make the same or only a bit more money than you made before.



Bless their hearts.... heh, I am from the deep south and understand the term well.... Made me snort-laugh....

Thanks

User avatar
caseyw
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:25 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby caseyw » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:09 pm

JCFindley wrote:
sidhesadie wrote:24 year olds, bless their hearts, DO NOT KNOW what it is like to go to work, 10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week, doing something you HATE for YEARS on end. They just don't. They worked a summer job they hated and they think it's the same thing. Well, it isn't. It also isn't the same when a job you hate is taking time from your KIDS as when it's taking time from your party-ability. They mean well, and for their situation, their calculations make perfect sense. Mid thirties with a family? You have a different calculation to make.
So in their calculation, it cannot possibly be worth it to take on debt in order to potentially make the same or only a bit more money than you made before.



Bless their hearts.... heh, I am from the deep south and understand the term well.... Made me snort-laugh....

Thanks


haha, bob levell commercials. if your from dallas you will get that. LOL.

sidhesadie
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby sidhesadie » Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:14 pm

JCFindley wrote:
sidhesadie wrote:24 year olds, bless their hearts, DO NOT KNOW what it is like to go to work, 10 hours a day, 5-6 days a week, doing something you HATE for YEARS on end. They just don't. They worked a summer job they hated and they think it's the same thing. Well, it isn't. It also isn't the same when a job you hate is taking time from your KIDS as when it's taking time from your party-ability. They mean well, and for their situation, their calculations make perfect sense. Mid thirties with a family? You have a different calculation to make.
So in their calculation, it cannot possibly be worth it to take on debt in order to potentially make the same or only a bit more money than you made before.



Bless their hearts.... heh, I am from the deep south and understand the term well.... Made me snort-laugh....

Thanks



My family is from Oklahoma. You're welcome. :)

nouseforaname123
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 12:32 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby nouseforaname123 » Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:49 pm

I am c/o 2013 at SMU, which qualifies as a strong regional school. My answers are based solely on my experience.

mmk33 wrote:I'm about the make the law school decision, and I would love to hear from anyone who has been through the T14 route or the strong regional law school route.

My situation: 32 years old, I live in NC with my wife, and I would be happy to practice within the state after graduation. I'm in to Wake Forest, UNC, and Duke. Geographically Wake Forest is the easiest for us for a variety of reasons: we own a house and it's a short drive; wife works nearby. WFU is offering a scholarship so attending there would be very inexpensive. I haven't gotten scholarship info from Duke (yet), but I would likely have to take on $100-150k more in debt to attend there. The questions are:
1. Will my age restrict me from getting the type of job (probably big law) that I would need to pay back Duke loans?


Your age probably won't be a hindrance. As long as you have the other things law firms are looking for at your particular school (grades, law review, interview well), you'll be fine . At SMU, there are a handful of non-trads on LR. All of us landed multiple SA offers from big firms. There will be a handful of biglaw firms that are not interested in you due to your age but that will be balanced by the handful of firms that really want you because of your age.

2. Have people found that law school grades are quite arbitrary?


This depends on who you ask. My grades have been remarkably consistent from semester to semester.

3. Is it true that mid-law jobs are few and far between? In the employment thread there is some information that salaries are polarized, and there are some people making 30-50k and then others who win the big job lottery and make 100k+.


Depends on the market. Robust legal markets will have more of those midlaw type jobs. I can't speak to NC.

User avatar
Lawst
Posts: 504
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:02 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Lawst » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:30 pm

r6_philly wrote:My update: I got 2 1L SA offers because of my background and work experience, so it definitely helped, quite a bit! However i do feel that it was not viewed as favorably to a few people in other interviews, so do be tactful on how you want to sell your age/wisdom/WE.


Congrats! I'm starting to think that my age (late 30s) and WE (15+ years in media) are working against me. The only feedback I get at all is in the form of rejections. Granted, I go to a tier 2 school, so maybe I'll eventually get something once people higher up the food chain turn it down. So far the only people I know who have job offers are 23 and have little to no WE. Depressing.
It feels GREAT to get turned down for jobs that don't even pay.

r6_philly
Posts: 10707
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby r6_philly » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:18 pm

Lawst wrote:Congrats! I'm starting to think that my age (late 30s) and WE (15+ years in media) are working against me. The only feedback I get at all is in the form of rejections. Granted, I go to a tier 2 school, so maybe I'll eventually get something once people higher up the food chain turn it down. So far the only people I know who have job offers are 23 and have little to no WE. Depressing.
It feels GREAT to get turned down for jobs that don't even pay.


Thanks! If you have risen through your career, be careful about your resume and what you present. You may be overqualified, or you may just simply not be "Worth the trouble." Remember at the nonpaying jobs, you are really just an intern, so you have to fit into the "intern" role. I would retool your resume a bit and try it out with a few places. Focus on how you could add to what they are trying to do. I understand how you feel about people not wanting you to work for free, but maybe that's part of the reason why it's so hard to get those jobs - they know that we want to get paid, but there are like 5000 other kids who don't. I did manage to land a couple of PI jobs as well, but I really convinced them that I want to be a part of their mission, and how my WE can add to their work. I am genuine about that, I was just glad to get the opportunity to work there, with or without pay.

User avatar
Lawst
Posts: 504
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:02 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Lawst » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:48 am

r6_philly wrote:
Lawst wrote:Congrats! I'm starting to think that my age (late 30s) and WE (15+ years in media) are working against me. The only feedback I get at all is in the form of rejections. Granted, I go to a tier 2 school, so maybe I'll eventually get something once people higher up the food chain turn it down. So far the only people I know who have job offers are 23 and have little to no WE. Depressing.
It feels GREAT to get turned down for jobs that don't even pay.


Thanks! If you have risen through your career, be careful about your resume and what you present. You may be overqualified, or you may just simply not be "Worth the trouble." Remember at the nonpaying jobs, you are really just an intern, so you have to fit into the "intern" role. I would retool your resume a bit and try it out with a few places. Focus on how you could add to what they are trying to do. I understand how you feel about people not wanting you to work for free, but maybe that's part of the reason why it's so hard to get those jobs - they know that we want to get paid, but there are like 5000 other kids who don't. I did manage to land a couple of PI jobs as well, but I really convinced them that I want to be a part of their mission, and how my WE can add to their work. I am genuine about that, I was just glad to get the opportunity to work there, with or without pay.


Thank you - good points. Btw, I probably shouldn't have combined my genuine congrats with my rant. I am happy for all of us law students who get good summer jobs, and I'm especially happy for those of us who are of the non-traditional variety. It gives me hope.
I'm completely expecting to have an unpaid job this summer and I'm fine with being the lowly intern, but maybe my resume would suggest otherwise. I guess I need to retool and keep trying, then.

r6_philly
Posts: 10707
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby r6_philly » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:57 am

Lawst wrote:
Thank you - good points. Btw, I probably shouldn't have combined my genuine congrats with my rant. I am happy for all of us law students who get good summer jobs, and I'm especially happy for those of us who are of the non-traditional variety. It gives me hope.
I'm completely expecting to have an unpaid job this summer and I'm fine with being the lowly intern, but maybe my resume would suggest otherwise. I guess I need to retool and keep trying, then.


Best of luck! No worries, I was ranting o'plenty until a wiser 3L told me to consider some other things. If you have any specific questions or want some input on your resume, pm me. Develop a few different version of your resumes and focus on different strengths. Talk about different things depending on who you are talking to. I can tell you interviewing with younger folks, especially at screeners, is very tough. I feel like I should be interviewing them lol (I used to conduct interviews).

User avatar
mmk33
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 1:32 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby mmk33 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:37 pm

nouseforaname123 wrote:I am c/o 2013 at SMU, which qualifies as a strong regional school. My answers are based solely on my experience.

mmk33 wrote:I'm about the make the law school decision, and I would love to hear from anyone who has been through the T14 route or the strong regional law school route.

My situation: 32 years old, I live in NC with my wife, and I would be happy to practice within the state after graduation. I'm in to Wake Forest, UNC, and Duke. Geographically Wake Forest is the easiest for us for a variety of reasons: we own a house and it's a short drive; wife works nearby. WFU is offering a scholarship so attending there would be very inexpensive. I haven't gotten scholarship info from Duke (yet), but I would likely have to take on $100-150k more in debt to attend there. The questions are:
1. Will my age restrict me from getting the type of job (probably big law) that I would need to pay back Duke loans?


Your age probably won't be a hindrance. As long as you have the other things law firms are looking for at your particular school (grades, law review, interview well), you'll be fine . At SMU, there are a handful of non-trads on LR. All of us landed multiple SA offers from big firms. There will be a handful of biglaw firms that are not interested in you due to your age but that will be balanced by the handful of firms that really want you because of your age.

2. Have people found that law school grades are quite arbitrary?


Thanks very much for the response! From what I can tell, SMU is comparable in your region to WFU in mine. I appreciate the information. At this point I'm still leaning toward Duke with debt, because of the versatility of the degree, but I have both open houses coming up in the next two weeks.

This depends on who you ask. My grades have been remarkably consistent from semester to semester.

3. Is it true that mid-law jobs are few and far between? In the employment thread there is some information that salaries are polarized, and there are some people making 30-50k and then others who win the big job lottery and make 100k+.


Depends on the market. Robust legal markets will have more of those midlaw type jobs. I can't speak to NC.


Thanks for the help! From what I can tell the regional pull of SMU is comparable to WFU in my area. I'm leaning toward Duke with debt, but I have both open houses coming up, and that will be helpful.

User avatar
DocHawkeye
Posts: 640
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:22 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby DocHawkeye » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:36 pm

Next week, I give my final oral argument for legal writing, the last requirement for that course. I can't believe that my 1L year is beginning to wind down already. Anyone else with me?

User avatar
AlexanderSupertramp
Posts: 167
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:30 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby AlexanderSupertramp » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:04 am

DocHawkeye wrote:Next week, I give my final oral argument for legal writing, the last requirement for that course. I can't believe that my 1L year is beginning to wind down already. Anyone else with me?

Yes and no. It seems like it is forever away but it's really only about 6 weeks. We have midterms this week and I am not nearly as prepared as I was last semester. With my nine year old needing more help in math, my five year old acting out, and the baby deciding to suddenly stop sleeping (teething?) I fell behind. Litigating my divorce from three hours away is killing me also.

I booked Property 1,but today's midterm in Property II was pretty challenging, I'm hoping for an A- but would be okay with a B+ ...sadly that's the one I was most prepared for! I haven't even started my memo yet either. So, I'm just done. Like, over it all together. I'm excited about my summer internship and I like my current internship (both wiht judges) but I'm incredibly sick of the work and the studying and the reading.

jared6180
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:47 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby jared6180 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:03 am

AlexanderSupertramp wrote:Yes and no. It seems like it is forever away but it's really only about 6 weeks. We have midterms this week and I am not nearly as prepared as I was last semester. With my nine year old needing more help in math, my five year old acting out, and the baby deciding to suddenly stop sleeping (teething?) I fell behind. Litigating my divorce from three hours away is killing me also.


I know you don't want sympathy, but to do half that requires a strong individual even without law school. You are doing it all WITH law school. You obviously have what it takes to push through, and make this a huge stepping stone in your life. Don't let it be a stumbling block.

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:53 pm

Hey all.

Over 30. In a regional T2.

Married, two kids.

Got an unpaid internship for the summer. Trying to find something part time as well that pays. Stupid mortgage.

Glad to find this thread.

r6_philly
Posts: 10707
Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby r6_philly » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:32 pm

spleenworship wrote:Hey all.

Over 30. In a regional T2.

Married, two kids.

Got an unpaid internship for the summer. Trying to find something part time as well that pays. Stupid mortgage.

Glad to find this thread.


Can you do a RA with a prof or something?

Nice to have you!

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:20 am

r6_philly wrote:
spleenworship wrote:Hey all.

Over 30. In a regional T2.

Married, two kids.

Got an unpaid internship for the summer. Trying to find something part time as well that pays. Stupid mortgage.

Glad to find this thread.


Can you do a RA with a prof or something?

Nice to have you!



Still lots of small firm jobs around. And I want something litigation related if possible.

User avatar
JCFindley
Posts: 1283
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:19 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby JCFindley » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:26 am

spleenworship wrote:Hey all.

Over 30. In a regional T2.

Married, two kids.

Got an unpaid internship for the summer. Trying to find something part time as well that pays. Stupid mortgage.

Glad to find this thread.


Welcome Spleen

User avatar
coobs
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 6:05 am

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby coobs » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:41 am

33 y/o with kids, a supportive wife and been a cop for 10 years lookin to go part time hopefully in the fall.
Lsat score sucks, but got waitlisted at one school so far - so thats somewhat promising =)

Glad there are other 30 + out there haha

User avatar
Oklahoma2014
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:50 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Oklahoma2014 » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:14 am

Hello All, I have been gathering info in the LSAT, PS, and Admissions forums for a couple of years but only recently started posting and branching out into other forums. Glad to find this thread.

As for me, I am 35 and married with 3 sons. My older two sons are in high school and if we stay in our home state they attend college for free, therefore we can't leave Oklahoma for law school. We love it here anyway. I have been accepted at OU and TU, waiting on answers from OCU and Arkansas. TU offered me a large scholarship but has a GPA stipulation, OU said I should receive their scholarship offer later this week, early next. Sooner the better as I think my mail lady believes I am stalking her.

We are blessed that my wife has a great career and I am so thankful that she can support us while I am in law school. The goal is to keep the debt way down so that does not become a factor when deciding what area I eventually practice. My background isn't nearly as exciting as the pilots on here, that stuff sounds awesome and I am thankful to you all for serving our country. I worked 15 years in the trucking industry, most of that in sales or management. Didn't enjoy it much but it paid extremely well, which is what mattered at the time. Once the kids were old enough my wife returned to school and got her degree, which is allowing me to get out of the trucking industry.

Anyway, that's a little bit about my story. Glad to get to read some of your stories on here. If you have any questions about Oklahoma give me a holler.

User avatar
JCFindley
Posts: 1283
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2012 1:19 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby JCFindley » Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:46 am

Welcome Coobs and OK....

Oklahoma is really a one law school state as I understand it and it's in Norman, Tulsa has some serious job placement issues and OCU seems more like a pay your fee get your B operation that would be fine IF you already had a job lined up and just needed your JD.

Tulsa would get expensive quick if you don't make the stipulations on the scholarship so take that into account it may end up that OU looks more appealing.

I like OK and thought about applying there but my NYC wife would probably leave me if I went there or NE.... (If not leave she would NOT be happy)

Arkansas is pretty well respected in state but not sure how it would travel to OK. Just something to check on if you end up considering LS there.....

JC

User avatar
spleenworship
Posts: 4421
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 11:08 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby spleenworship » Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:17 pm

DocHawkeye wrote:Next week, I give my final oral argument for legal writing, the last requirement for that course. I can't believe that my 1L year is beginning to wind down already. Anyone else with me?



It is so weird that I am almost done. I'm a little scared, honestly.

artvegas901
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 12:13 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby artvegas901 » Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:13 am

Hey Now!

Good to find this thread. I have trolled countless threads and forums looking for info, so this is definitely welcome!

I am 34 and NOT a fighter pilot. I did, however, watch Top Gun as a child. So there is that. I worked as an Operations Manager for seven years at an auto repossession firm after UG. Pretty tough work, got shot at, got beat up and was yelled out daily. Good times. In 2006, went to grad school and earned an MFA. Now working as an adjunct Professor at two Universities, the pay is dismal, the hours long and I am absolutely sure that I do not I want a career in art school academia. Also have several years of experience as a managing editor for a few publications. But the call to LS has always been there and now it is unbearable. Signed up for the June LSAT. Will see what the score is and go from there.

Now, I am going to go watch Top Gun again, while I study LG. Glad to have found this thread!

User avatar
Rotor
Posts: 917
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 11:06 pm

Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Rotor » Wed Mar 21, 2012 2:21 am

Six Navy pilots are attending advanced tactical training: Maverick, Goose, Iceman, Hollywood, Jester and Viper. The school flies three types of aircraft, F-14, F-5 and MiG-28. Each aircraft carries one pilot and one naval flight officer. Maverick, a pilot, does not fly the MiG. Iceman and Jester have never flown together. Goose and Hollywood have the same flight duties.

Who sleeps with Charlie?

Good luck with LG. :D




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests