OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

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xyzbca
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby xyzbca » Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:59 pm

tibbs1179 wrote:RE: Having kids while in law school

(NOTE: Please feel free to read only the first paragraph below before offering any advice, if you'd rather not read such a lengthy post).


Hi all. First time posting in this thread. I'm 31 and will be applying to LS for Fall 2012. I have a problem that I am hoping at least some of you, my fellow "more-seasoned" folks, could help me out with. I've seen a lot of the posts in this thread about going to LS while taking care of kids, but what about having kids while in LS? Has anyone done so and can offer advice on making it work or any soothing words that might convince my girlfriend that it's definitely possible to do so?


I am 29. My wife and I had a kid in between my first and second year of LS. It isn't easy and there will be stretches when the non-student must essentially fill the role of a single parent because the student has to prioritize school stuff. It can be done but I don't want to tell you everything is sunshine and rainbows. You need an especially supportive non-student who has no problem carrying the bulk of the parenting duties AND you need the non-student to not complain about the unequal division of labor.

Two close friends also had kids in LS (one student was a father and the other a mother). We all agree that you should do everything in your power to time the birth of kids to occur during summer break.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:36 pm

mjcaccio wrote:Hi all my 30+ friends. Just got into NU off of the waitlist and am torn. I had kind of gotten used to the idea of waiting one more year and working, but this seems like something I cannot pass up. The nerves are really starting to set in.


Do not pass it up, IMO.

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tibbs1179
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby tibbs1179 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:42 pm

sidhesadie wrote:RE: Having kids while in law school



You haven't really said what your girlfriend wants you to do (other than not go to law school).

As a parent, I can tell you that it takes a really, really long time to raise kids. LOL. In some ways it goes by fast, but at the same time, when you wake up and can't believe they're 18, you also will be in disbelief that you're 50. Where did it go? My point here is that if what your girlfriend really wants is for you to continue with a job that makes you miserable so that she can feel 'safe' when you have the means and opportunity to do something different, and if she's really that insecure about the idea of pregnancy and child rearing...well...I would just think really carefully about the next 20 years of your life. Kids make you scared like you've never been scared before (are they safe? will anything happen to them?) They get hurt with alarming frequency if you're not used to being around kids. They are expensive, something is always coming up to do/pay for. There's always something they need for school they didn't tell you until the last minute.

I don't say this to discourage you from having kids, lol, but rather just to really think about your girlfriend's personality and whether she's going to be a steady, strong mother for your children. You're very worried about what you can be for her, and that's sweet and shows your good character, but there's more to consider than just that. Law school with having kids is TOTALLY doable (I know a number of women who were the law students themselves who had babies in 2L or 3L) but whether it's totally doable with HER? I don't know about that.


Thanks sidhesadie. She knows how I feel about my last jobs and does not want me to take another job that makes me miserable. But at the same time, she does not want to struggle. She works in international law, and her career has taken her all over the world, from Nairobi, Kenya, to Arusha, Tanzania, to The Hague, to Geneva, and now to NYC. It all seems to have taken its toll on her, both mentally and physically with her health. She has been through a lot and just wants to settle down and concentrate on having a family. It doesn't help that she's now 36 and really hears her clock ticking. She thinks that LS (or any other kind of school for that matter) will be too difficult with her having to work and both of us trying to raise a child with her being the sole breadwinner.

At the same time, if I can't make a successful career change, I'm certain that I will never be stable. It's pretty clear to me that I'm not cut out for the corporate world, but those are really the only kinds of jobs I can get with my current resume. However, to make a career change, it's a virtual certainty that I will have to go to some kind of graduate or professional program.

This may just be a case of the world's worst timing: her child-bearing crisis and my career crisis coming both at the same time. She says that if she were younger she could totally support me with going to LS or whatever I want to do. But with her age, she doesn't think she can do that. I completely understand her feelings, but it breaks my heart nonetheless. I'm just hoping that there is some kind of compromise that we can reach.

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tibbs1179
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby tibbs1179 » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:44 pm

xyzbca wrote:
tibbs1179 wrote:RE: Having kids while in law school

(NOTE: Please feel free to read only the first paragraph below before offering any advice, if you'd rather not read such a lengthy post).


Hi all. First time posting in this thread. I'm 31 and will be applying to LS for Fall 2012. I have a problem that I am hoping at least some of you, my fellow "more-seasoned" folks, could help me out with. I've seen a lot of the posts in this thread about going to LS while taking care of kids, but what about having kids while in LS? Has anyone done so and can offer advice on making it work or any soothing words that might convince my girlfriend that it's definitely possible to do so?


I am 29. My wife and I had a kid in between my first and second year of LS. It isn't easy and there will be stretches when the non-student must essentially fill the role of a single parent because the student has to prioritize school stuff. It can be done but I don't want to tell you everything is sunshine and rainbows. You need an especially supportive non-student who has no problem carrying the bulk of the parenting duties AND you need the non-student to not complain about the unequal division of labor.

Two close friends also had kids in LS (one student was a father and the other a mother). We all agree that you should do everything in your power to time the birth of kids to occur during summer break.


Thanks xyzbca! Timing seems to be everything.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:03 pm

xyzbca wrote:
tibbs1179 wrote:RE: Having kids while in law school

(NOTE: Please feel free to read only the first paragraph below before offering any advice, if you'd rather not read such a lengthy post).


Hi all. First time posting in this thread. I'm 31 and will be applying to LS for Fall 2012. I have a problem that I am hoping at least some of you, my fellow "more-seasoned" folks, could help me out with. I've seen a lot of the posts in this thread about going to LS while taking care of kids, but what about having kids while in LS? Has anyone done so and can offer advice on making it work or any soothing words that might convince my girlfriend that it's definitely possible to do so?


I am 29. My wife and I had a kid in between my first and second year of LS. It isn't easy and there will be stretches when the non-student must essentially fill the role of a single parent because the student has to prioritize school stuff. It can be done but I don't want to tell you everything is sunshine and rainbows. You need an especially supportive non-student who has no problem carrying the bulk of the parenting duties AND you need the non-student to not complain about the unequal division of labor.

Two close friends also had kids in LS (one student was a father and the other a mother). We all agree that you should do everything in your power to time the birth of kids to occur during summer break.


Hmmm.... with my luck if we ever have a second it'll show up around the fourth week of second semester 1L.... some time when it isn't hideously inconvenient... but still blows.

In any case, to tibbs I would say this: There is never a right time. There might be better times or worse times... but I have yet to meet anyone who would have purposefully chose the time they ended up having children. Either they wish they could've had 'em sooner, or a few months or even years later. Or they wish they had more money, or a different job, or they could've stayed home, or they could've gone back to work sooner, or they had a different partner, or no partner, or any partner at all. Or, like a friend of mine, they get him a vasectomy and while he sits with frozen peas in his lap is informed of the fourth pregnancy. I would advise your GF that if she wants kids, and she loves you, then there probably isn't a better time than planning for your summer breaks.

Yes, her working while you are in LS and trying to raise a kid will suck. But so will both of you working... and she may find that even if you had an amazing job and could stay home with the kids she isn't happy either. Having kids is, hands down, the suckiest, most hideously wonderful amazing experience a human can have.

Look, even if you have to scale down for a few years so that she can take the time off... and you end up in a tiny apartment on welfare... well, you would have a kid and a new career out of it.

All of this is just IMO of course.

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Icculus
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Icculus » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:27 pm

firemed wrote:
mjcaccio wrote:Hi all my 30+ friends. Just got into NU off of the waitlist and am torn. I had kind of gotten used to the idea of waiting one more year and working, but this seems like something I cannot pass up. The nerves are really starting to set in.


Do not pass it up, IMO.


I think this is the consensus of everyone I know.

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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby r6_philly » Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:09 pm

xyzbca wrote:
Two close friends also had kids in LS (one student was a father and the other a mother). We all agree that you should do everything in your power to time the birth of kids to occur during summer break.


Our son was born in June and we really liked the timing (I was back finishing UG at the time). So now we are planning to have another one, and June is the time we are aiming for again. It is probably the least inconvenient time to have a births since the student parent can help out quite a bit more.

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homestyle28
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby homestyle28 » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:55 am

mjcaccio wrote:
firemed wrote:
mjcaccio wrote:Hi all my 30+ friends. Just got into NU off of the waitlist and am torn. I had kind of gotten used to the idea of waiting one more year and working, but this seems like something I cannot pass up. The nerves are really starting to set in.


Do not pass it up, IMO.


I think this is the consensus of everyone I know.


I'll be there, and I'm pretty great if that helps you make the decision

sidhesadie
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby sidhesadie » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:57 am

firemed wrote: Having kids is, hands down, the suckiest, most hideously wonderful amazing experience a human can have.



Truer words were never spoken.

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Cavgirl
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Cavgirl » Tue Jun 14, 2011 2:46 am

sidhesadie wrote:
firemed wrote: Having kids is, hands down, the suckiest, most hideously wonderful amazing experience a human can have.



Truer words were never spoken.


Amen.

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DocHawkeye
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby DocHawkeye » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:16 am

I am really starting to get excited about the fall! I got my registration packet in the mail yesterday and have been assigned to some professors I am stoked about having. I registered last night as well as applied for a parking permit and student ID! Best of all, my wife has a JOB INTERVIEW ON MONDAY! The pieces are all starting to fall into place! I can't wait for August!

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:50 am

DocHawkeye wrote:I am really starting to get excited about the fall! I got my registration packet in the mail yesterday and have been assigned to some professors I am stoked about having. I registered last night as well as applied for a parking permit and student ID! Best of all, my wife has a JOB INTERVIEW ON MONDAY! The pieces are all starting to fall into place! I can't wait for August!



YAY!!!! Awesome!

I wish I could get my schedule already... sigh... they won't tell me until orientation apparently.

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northwood
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby northwood » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:00 pm

DocHawkeye wrote:I am really starting to get excited about the fall! I got my registration packet in the mail yesterday and have been assigned to some professors I am stoked about having. I registered last night as well as applied for a parking permit and student ID! Best of all, my wife has a JOB INTERVIEW ON MONDAY! The pieces are all starting to fall into place! I can't wait for August!



sounds like its time to break you your victory dance!

congratulations!

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Icculus
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Icculus » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:17 am

To my fellow 30+, I need a pep talk. I swore to everybody I knew that if I got into NU I would pick up and move. I now face tomorrow as D-Day and am terrified of sending in my deposit. It's not because I'm afraid of school or think I won't like being a lawyer, it's because I'm afraid of leaving behind some great friends & family, and a band I have been playing with for 10+ years. I know it's ridiculous to be making a problem out of being accepted to a T-14, but I am really freaking out. Tell me that sending my deposit tomorrow is a good idea and a step into a new great life adventure. Sorry if I'm coming off a bit whiny, I have been drinking.

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rinkrat19
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:42 am

mjcaccio wrote:To my fellow 30+, I need a pep talk. I swore to everybody I knew that if I got into NU I would pick up and move. I now face tomorrow as D-Day and am terrified of sending in my deposit. It's not because I'm afraid of school or think I won't like being a lawyer, it's because I'm afraid of leaving behind some great friends & family, and a band I have been playing with for 10+ years. I know it's ridiculous to be making a problem out of being accepted to a T-14, but I am really freaking out. Tell me that sending my deposit tomorrow is a good idea and a step into a new great life adventure. Sorry if I'm coming off a bit whiny, I have been drinking.


I'll be leaving behind my rec hockey team that I've played on for 9 years. The thought of taking 3 years off from hockey for LS is profoundly depressing, but in Chicago I won't have the time, money or transportation necessary to play. (Somewhat ironic, since I'll actually be living in a hockey town for the first time.)

Sorry, that probably didn't help. :? How about...I've sent in two deposits already and I can honestly say that NU is awesome and I loved Chicago when I visited for the first time. It'll be a terrifying, life-changing, exciting experience and I can't wait for my deferral year to be over!

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oldhippie
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby oldhippie » Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:42 am

change is always scary, of course you're freaking out a little. especially ITT, where we all have lives that are somewhat established already and probably all have the occasional person telling us we're crazy to "throw it all away." but as far as i'm concerned, it's time for a new challenge, a new place, and the next step in the journey. and whatever fears you have, hopefully you also have some great dreams and goals that balance them out.
we're all smart, capable people in here and can thrive in whatever settings we choose. you will never replace your current circle of loved ones, but you will create a new one and have that many more people you can support and be supported by.
and to quote some random tv show i saw once and can't remember the source: "everybody dies, but not everybody lives."
let's live :D

lisac
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby lisac » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:27 pm

oldhippie wrote:and whatever fears you have, hopefully you also have some great dreams and goals that balance them out.
we're all smart, capable people in here and can thrive in whatever settings we choose.


Thanks for this. Your words helped me today.

Hi everybody! Long time lurker, first time poster. This has been a great thread. I've read less than half of it, and I'm already so glad I've found it (along with the rest of this great site).

I'm 42, and I've happily been a stay at home mom for the past 14 years. Now the kids are older and I'm pursuing some new dreams.

I took the June LSAT, and now I'm trying to put together the things needed for applications. For me, the challenge lies in having been out of school AND the workforce for so long. For example, who should I pursue for LORs? My ex-manager at my part time garden center job? My kid's ex- cub scout packmaster (where I was a den leader for a number of years)? People in my old homeschooling organization? All of these are fine people, and can attest to my work ethic and creativity, but none can really vouch for my academic abilities. And I'm not sure if any of my profs from 20+ years ago would even remember me.

I believe that I am capable of handling the coursework in law school, and that I will eventually make a great attorney. Phase one is convincing law schools of this.

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introversional
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby introversional » Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:38 pm

lisac wrote:
oldhippie wrote:and whatever fears you have, hopefully you also have some great dreams and goals that balance them out.
we're all smart, capable people in here and can thrive in whatever settings we choose.


Thanks for this. Your words helped me today.

Hi everybody! Long time lurker, first time poster. This has been a great thread. I've read less than half of it, and I'm already so glad I've found it (along with the rest of this great site).

I'm 42, and I've happily been a stay at home mom for the past 14 years. Now the kids are older and I'm pursuing some new dreams.

I took the June LSAT, and now I'm trying to put together the things needed for applications. For me, the challenge lies in having been out of school AND the workforce for so long. For example, who should I pursue for LORs? My ex-manager at my part time garden center job? My kid's ex- cub scout packmaster (where I was a den leader for a number of years)? People in my old homeschooling organization? All of these are fine people, and can attest to my work ethic and creativity, but none can really vouch for my academic abilities. And I'm not sure if any of my profs from 20+ years ago would even remember me.

I believe that I am capable of handling the coursework in law school, and that I will eventually make a great attorney. Phase one is convincing law schools of this.


Totally understandable, and I would just ask a few professionals in your network of friends that knows you personally. (and are the best, most articulate writers)

How about your kid's pediatrician? Do you have any attorney friends? I would just ask a few close professional friends to write your LORs - preferably ones that can attest to how well you juggle all the duties involved with being a mom and all these social activities and organizations your a part of.

lisac
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby lisac » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:41 pm

introversional wrote:
Totally understandable, and I would just ask a few professionals in your network of friends that knows you personally. (and are the best, most articulate writers)

How about your kid's pediatrician? Do you have any attorney friends? I would just ask a few close professional friends to write your LORs - preferably ones that can attest to how well you juggle all the duties involved with being a mom and all these social activities and organizations your a part of.


Thanks for responding.

Unfortunately, my kids have had a number of pediatricians, none of whom know me well enough to give any recommendation beyond my punctuality and ability to pay their bills. (But hey, law schools might like that! :roll: )

The only attorney I know personally is also a cousin. I'm sure she would write a letter for me if I asked her, but that brings up another question - are LORs from family members even allowed? You mentioned having people write LORs for me who can attest to my successfully juggling all the things I have, and the one who can best do that for me is my husband. He has volunteered to write one for me, especially as one of the balls I've kept in the air is doing the accounting and tax work for our small business. I just don't know if that's frowned upon.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:00 pm

lisac wrote:
introversional wrote:
Totally understandable, and I would just ask a few professionals in your network of friends that knows you personally. (and are the best, most articulate writers)

How about your kid's pediatrician? Do you have any attorney friends? I would just ask a few close professional friends to write your LORs - preferably ones that can attest to how well you juggle all the duties involved with being a mom and all these social activities and organizations your a part of.


Thanks for responding.

Unfortunately, my kids have had a number of pediatricians, none of whom know me well enough to give any recommendation beyond my punctuality and ability to pay their bills. (But hey, law schools might like that! :roll: )

The only attorney I know personally is also a cousin. I'm sure she would write a letter for me if I asked her, but that brings up another question - are LORs from family members even allowed? You mentioned having people write LORs for me who can attest to my successfully juggling all the things I have, and the one who can best do that for me is my husband. He has volunteered to write one for me, especially as one of the balls I've kept in the air is doing the accounting and tax work for our small business. I just don't know if that's frowned upon.


Husband is a no go... cousin is probably also a no go.


So... If I was in your shoes here is what I would do:

Take an adult education class and get a recommendation from the teacher.

Then I would also get a part time job in an office (preferably a legal office) and get an LOR from them in September. Sure neither of these is in depth, but at this point I think that any of the other ideas you have are going to work... unless you have a volunteer organization you are deeply involved in where you could get an LOC from someone.

albanach
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby albanach » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:01 pm

lisac wrote:
introversional wrote:You mentioned having people write LORs for me who can attest to my successfully juggling all the things I have, and the one who can best do that for me is my husband. He has volunteered to write one for me, especially as one of the balls I've kept in the air is doing the accounting and tax work for our small business. I just don't know if that's frowned upon.


I'd avoid that. Just use leaders from the Scout pack and homeschooling. Make sure they're ticking the boxes that admissions officers are looking for.

In no particular order, try and cover:

  • intellect
  • analytical skills
  • written & oral communications
  • leadership
  • maturity
  • enthusiasm

They should be able to use anecdotes and examples to demonstrate a good knowledge of you as a person and their belief in your ability to succeed.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:07 pm

oldhippie wrote:and to quote some random tv show i saw once and can't remember the source: "everybody dies, but not everybody lives."
let's live :D


First off... Braveheart maybe? "Every man dies... not every man truly lives!"

Second off: yeah, going to NU is going to be scary as hell... but chose to go to the local law school... and almost every day wish I had re-took and applied to some T25 and could move. A new location to go with my new career... I get all misty eyed just thinking/wishing about it.

ETA: sometimes I fantasize about getting top 1% off my class and transferring into Harvard.... :oops: That's never going to happen, but neither is the threesome with my wife and Jennifer Aniston and I still fantasize about that too... so whatever. :wink:

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northwood
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby northwood » Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:42 pm

oldhippie wrote:change is always scary, of course you're freaking out a little. especially ITT, where we all have lives that are somewhat established already and probably all have the occasional person telling us we're crazy to "throw it all away." but as far as i'm concerned, it's time for a new challenge, a new place, and the next step in the journey. and whatever fears you have, hopefully you also have some great dreams and goals that balance them out.
we're all smart, capable people in here and can thrive in whatever settings we choose. you will never replace your current circle of loved ones, but you will create a new one and have that many more people you can support and be supported by.
and to quote some random tv show i saw once and can't remember the source: "everybody dies, but not everybody lives."
let's live :D



I want to so desperatly add to this, but its perfect the way it is, so I am just going to +1 this.


Its perfectly natural and normal to have second thoughts. We are starting down a new road, and in order to do it- we have to change some things that we are accostmed to. Dont fret about it- just remember that this is an important and essential part of becoming a lawyer.

YOu will be allright. Congrats on NU

sarahh
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby sarahh » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:31 pm

albanach wrote: I'd avoid that. Just use leaders from the Scout pack and homeschooling. Make sure they're ticking the boxes that admissions officers are looking for.

I agree with this. These people can provide a somewhat professional, detached assessment of you, and I think schools will understand why you do not have traditional LORs.

I was reading the alumni magazine for the school I am going to (my Dad is an alumni and gave it to me), and they had a section about what current students are doing. I freaked out reading it. There are so many accomplished, talented people. I hope my mushy brain and I can keep up. Having to deal with the logistics of a cross-country move, trying to fix our condo so we can actually rent it out (had to remove flooring and drywall due to water damage), and finding a reasonably-priced place to stay the first week in school (lease does not start until September) are stressing me out too.

delusional
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby delusional » Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:34 pm

sarahh wrote:
albanach wrote: I'd avoid that. Just use leaders from the Scout pack and homeschooling. Make sure they're ticking the boxes that admissions officers are looking for.

I agree with this. These people can provide a somewhat professional, detached assessment of you, and I think schools will understand why you do not have traditional LORs.

I was reading the alumni magazine for the school I am going to (my Dad is an alumni and gave it to me), and they had a section about what current students are doing. I freaked out reading it. There are so many accomplished, talented people. I hope my mushy brain and I can keep up. Having to deal with the logistics of a cross-country move, trying to fix our condo so we can actually rent it out (had to remove flooring and drywall due to water damage), and finding a reasonably-priced place to stay the first week in school (lease does not start until September) are stressing me out too.

Don't sweat it. They put out 600 grads a year, SOMEONE's gotta end up in the white house sooner or later.

ETA: whoops reading comp fail.




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