OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

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firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:00 pm

ArghItsBlarg wrote:WARNING - RANT BELOW

Are we insane?

..............

Sorry for ranting.


First off, don't apologize for ranting. And this shit IS SCARY. Being afraid is normal. I am scared shitless of the debt.


But you know what? You applied to law schools for a reason. Like me: I can't be a firefighter forever... even if I could I want a job that is intellectually stimulating, one that is white collar and in an office, and one in which I can make a difference on a larger scale than I can doing what I am doing. Also, while I will be busy, at least I will be home at night to kiss my daughter EVERY NIGHT... which is something I can't do now.

So think about this: why did you apply? Is this a dream of yours? Do you fantasize about it, think about it, hope for something special from this experience? If you did, then try to focus on that. Because when you did this you knew about the debt. You knew what you were getting into.

Don't get cold feet now. It is normal to be scared. This will be a HUGE change for you. It is easy at a time like this for your mind to focus on the negatives to try to avoid change. Part of you will be looking for a way out. Don't let the part of you that fears change, even change for the better, determine a course of action you have been set on for months if not years.

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homestyle28
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby homestyle28 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:38 pm

firemed wrote:Don't get cold feet now. It is normal to be scared. This will be a HUGE change for you. It is easy at a time like this for your mind to focus on the negatives to try to avoid change. Part of you will be looking for a way out. Don't let the part of you that fears change, even change for the better, determine a course of action you have been set on for months if not years.


Ok, I'll do it, I will get married!

Wait, what were we talking about, just go so fired up there ;)

groberts
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby groberts » Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:58 pm

ArghItsBlarg wrote:WARNING - RANT BELOW
I know in my gut that if I don't take it I will regret it for years to come.


Also, you really need to think long and hard about this statement. Which would you regret more, doing it and having to pay back loans, or not doing it and regretting not going for it when you had the chance?

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:55 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
firemed wrote:Don't get cold feet now. It is normal to be scared. This will be a HUGE change for you. It is easy at a time like this for your mind to focus on the negatives to try to avoid change. Part of you will be looking for a way out. Don't let the part of you that fears change, even change for the better, determine a course of action you have been set on for months if not years.


Ok, I'll do it, I will get married!

Wait, what were we talking about, just go so fired up there ;)


I'll ask my wife. If this happens you'll have to do a third of the housework, and I expect sex at least twice a week.

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homestyle28
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby homestyle28 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:07 pm

firemed wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
firemed wrote:Don't get cold feet now. It is normal to be scared. This will be a HUGE change for you. It is easy at a time like this for your mind to focus on the negatives to try to avoid change. Part of you will be looking for a way out. Don't let the part of you that fears change, even change for the better, determine a course of action you have been set on for months if not years.


Ok, I'll do it, I will get married!

Wait, what were we talking about, just go so fired up there ;)


I'll ask my wife. If this happens you'll have to do a third of the housework, and I expect sex at least twice a week.


I'll need to think this over...I mean I could handle the sex, but you'd need to be a hell of a man to get me to switch teams and clean floors.

sarahh
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby sarahh » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:16 pm

The health insurance was something that I did not even think about when I started this process. The student coverage is not that expensive, but when I saw how much I would have to pay for my husband, I wanted to cry. I think we are going to get him a high-deductible plan and hope he can find a job with health insurance soon after the move. Dental insurance is perhaps even more of a problem. The premiums are cheap but the coverage is terrible. I am a grinder, so my teeth are not in good shape.

Things would have been a lot easier if we did not buy a condo. I really hope we can find a decent renter. And of course, last week we had to discover that water was seeping into the bedroom and warped the floor. So we had to remove all of the flooring and also the baseboard to check for mold. No mold, but it is a mess. I told my husband he needs to fix everything while I am away this weekend at NYU. :)

It is a bit scary to leave a decent-paying job, but I feel this is the best career move for me. And I am lucky to have a husband who is supportive and willing to go wherever I want to go.

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nygrrrl
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby nygrrrl » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:28 pm

firemed wrote:First off, don't apologize for ranting. And this shit IS SCARY. Being afraid is normal. I am scared shitless of the debt.

But you know what? You applied to law schools for a reason. Like me: I can't be a firefighter forever... even if I could I want a job that is intellectually stimulating, one that is white collar and in an office, and one in which I can make a difference on a larger scale than I can doing what I am doing. Also, while I will be busy, at least I will be home at night to kiss my daughter EVERY NIGHT... which is something I can't do now.

So think about this: why did you apply? Is this a dream of yours? Do you fantasize about it, think about it, hope for something special from this experience? If you did, then try to focus on that. Because when you did this you knew about the debt. You knew what you were getting into.


First off, Hi Everybody! I've been away from the thread for a while - insanely busy.
I love this post, firemed. And Argh? I feel you. But the thing is, we had reasons for this decision - mine were much like Firemed's - what were yours? Law school is hard and the debt is breathtaking but when it gets bad, I think about how much more time I'll have with my kids and how much I love using my brain, again and it gets me over the scary, rough patches. Like firemed said, focus on your reasons. Hang in there. We have all panicked at one (or many!) points.

pkt63
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby pkt63 » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:31 pm

sarahh wrote:Things would have been a lot easier if we did not buy a condo. I really hope we can find a decent renter. And of course, last week we had to discover that water was seeping into the bedroom and warped the floor. So we had to remove all of the flooring and also the baseboard to check for mold. No mold, but it is a mess. I told my husband he needs to fix everything while I am away this weekend at NYU. :)

ahhh, the joys of home ownership. That's another thing about being our age and heading back to school and taking on more debt. We were, perhaps, the tail-end of the generation that got fooled into believing that owning a home is somehow morally better, required or a legitimate part of the American dream. Not only did we miss out on the cheaper tuition at many schools in the last decade, but we're saddled with mortgage debt. I count myself lucky that my home is still worth more than I owe on it, but my husband and I both hope not to own a home again. I am not a gardener, don't like Home Depot, and am frustrated just looking at the blinds that need to be replaced. Little to no responsibility *and* paying less each month for the same quality place? Sign me up!

I think the younger law students we attend with will be so lucky to *only* have LS debt. Or to be part of the older generation that never had to go into as much debt as us for anything. I guess I am just a pessimist, but it always seems like ours is the screwed generation.

Nevertheless, I really feel like some debt for this education is going to be worth it. For something I will (hopefully) love and be good at? If I could have found that without going into debt, I would have done it by now.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:59 pm

pkt63 wrote:I guess I am just a pessimist, but it always seems like ours is the screwed generation.

Nevertheless, I really feel like some debt for this education is going to be worth it. For something I will (hopefully) love and be good at? If I could have found that without going into debt, I would have done it by now.



Yeah... I think our generation did get a little extra screwed... but I think the system is sooooo very screwed right now pretty much nobody alive today will remain unaffected.


homestyle28 wrote:I'll need to think this over...I mean I could handle the sex, but you'd need to be a hell of a man to get me to switch teams and clean floors.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Deals off if you won't clean!


Also... you would get a 3 year old.

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paratactical
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby paratactical » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:31 pm

Okay, so I might be super old when I get to law school, but I'm sho' not gonna have kids or a mortage, so I guess that makes me feel better.

firemed
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby firemed » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:49 pm

paratactical wrote:Okay, so I might be super old when I get to law school, but I'm sho' not gonna have kids or a mortage, so I guess that makes me feel better.


Way to rub it in Para.

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paratactical
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby paratactical » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:51 pm

firemed wrote:
paratactical wrote:Okay, so I might be super old when I get to law school, but I'm sho' not gonna have kids or a mortage, so I guess that makes me feel better.


Way to rub it in Para.

If I had kids, I'd probably be in jail. Does that make you feel better?

Melvin
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Melvin » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:01 pm

Hello,

I belong here since the average age of my husband and I is over 30 :lol:

I have decided to attend Harvard, and it will be tough since my husband is keeping his job in DC. I feel bad since he will have to travel back and forth between Boston and DC, and we get to rent in Boston while Keeping a house in the DC area. However, it is the right decision, I think :?

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Leira7905
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Leira7905 » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:01 pm

Melvin wrote:Hello,

I belong here since the average age of my husband and I is over 30 :lol:

I have decided to attend Harvard, and it will be tough since my husband is keeping his job in DC. I feel bad since he will have to travel back and forth between Boston and DC, and we get to rent in Boston while Keeping a house in the DC area. However, it is the right decision, I think :?


Harvard is always the right decision.

Melvin
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby Melvin » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:10 pm

Leira7905 wrote:
Melvin wrote:Hello,

I belong here since the average age of my husband and I is over 30 :lol:

I have decided to attend Harvard, and it will be tough since my husband is keeping his job in DC. I feel bad since he will have to travel back and forth between Boston and DC, and we get to rent in Boston while Keeping a house in the DC area. However, it is the right decision, I think :?


Harvard is always the right decision.


Good :-)

delusional
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby delusional » Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:15 pm

Leira7905 wrote:
Melvin wrote:Hello,

I belong here since the average age of my husband and I is over 30 :lol:

I have decided to attend Harvard, and it will be tough since my husband is keeping his job in DC. I feel bad since he will have to travel back and forth between Boston and DC, and we get to rent in Boston while Keeping a house in the DC area. However, it is the right decision, I think :?


Harvard is always the right decision.

Oh no! Anything but that! (facepalm)

1boardhead
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby 1boardhead » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:47 pm

Very cool running across this thread.

I'm 58... does that count as non-trad??? :twisted:

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haus
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby haus » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:53 pm

1boardhead wrote:Very cool running across this thread.

I'm 58... does that count as non-trad??? :twisted:


I think that you have earned a slot in the non-trad boat.

Then again, with people needing to re-engineer their careers as job markets have up and changed on us all, perhaps all of us will become the new traditional students.

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ahduth
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby ahduth » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:10 pm

Alright, I'm just here to troll it up.

I got back from the CLS/NYU admitted student things. How can CLS students be more boring than me already? Sweater vest city, and I've dealt with a lot of boring people in my life. It was aggravating. You can shove the Columbia "name" up your ass.

Am I not approaching this seriously enough? My feeling is that if law firms kick me due to age during EIW/OCI/whatever, I didn't want to end up there anyhow. I know piles of accounting and am not interested in doing copying for two years after school.

I am bona fide unattached, and I'm basically looking at a 100k bump in free money at UCLA over NYU. But it seems insane to turn down a top 5 school. 100k is just money. I can't figure out how to quantify the NYU opportunities but... it sounds hot.

Should I be lettting UCLA pay my ride, or go to NYU?

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introversional
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby introversional » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:45 pm

ahduth wrote:Alright, I'm just here to troll it up.

I got back from the CLS/NYU admitted student things. How can CLS students be more boring than me already? Sweater vest city, and I've dealt with a lot of boring people in my life. It was aggravating. You can shove the Columbia "name" up your ass.

Am I not approaching this seriously enough? My feeling is that if law firms kick me due to age during EIW/OCI/whatever, I didn't want to end up there anyhow. I know piles of accounting and am not interested in doing copying for two years after school.

I am bona fide unattached, and I'm basically looking at a 100k bump in free money at UCLA over NYU. But it seems insane to turn down a top 5 school. 100k is just money. I can't figure out how to quantify the NYU opportunities but... it sounds hot.

Should I be lettting UCLA pay my ride, or go to NYU?


Defintely trolling, b/c I think you're already decided on UCLA. Although you'll probably be annoyed at all the phoneys on the west coast as well.

sbalive
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby sbalive » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:26 pm

ahduth wrote:Alright, I'm just here to troll it up.

I got back from the CLS/NYU admitted student things. How can CLS students be more boring than me already? Sweater vest city, and I've dealt with a lot of boring people in my life. It was aggravating. You can shove the Columbia "name" up your ass.

Am I not approaching this seriously enough? My feeling is that if law firms kick me due to age during EIW/OCI/whatever, I didn't want to end up there anyhow. I know piles of accounting and am not interested in doing copying for two years after school.

I am bona fide unattached, and I'm basically looking at a 100k bump in free money at UCLA over NYU. But it seems insane to turn down a top 5 school. 100k is just money. I can't figure out how to quantify the NYU opportunities but... it sounds hot.

Should I be lettting UCLA pay my ride, or go to NYU?


Nice troll -- but, seriously, as a Columbia student, I'd be thrilled if you didn't come. Enjoy making $30K doing personal injury work in Fontana 8)

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ahduth
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby ahduth » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:36 pm

introversional wrote:Defintely trolling, b/c I think you're already decided on UCLA. Although you'll probably be annoyed at all the phoneys on the west coast as well.


No, I've roughly decided on NYU - 25k isn't a massive scholarship, but it's a T6 and it seems to fit with what I'm looking for.

sbalive wrote:Nice troll -- but, seriously, as a Columbia student, I'd be thrilled if you didn't come. Enjoy making $30K doing personal injury work in Fontana 8)


I hope you actually belong in this thread. You're 30+ and at Columbia? I'd like to hear your perspective. I did not get a good feel out of the ASW.

WTF is Fontana?

sbalive
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby sbalive » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:23 am

ahduth wrote:
introversional wrote:Defintely trolling, b/c I think you're already decided on UCLA. Although you'll probably be annoyed at all the phoneys on the west coast as well.


No, I've roughly decided on NYU - 25k isn't a massive scholarship, but it's a T6 and it seems to fit with what I'm looking for.

sbalive wrote:Nice troll -- but, seriously, as a Columbia student, I'd be thrilled if you didn't come. Enjoy making $30K doing personal injury work in Fontana 8)


I hope you actually belong in this thread. You're 30+ and at Columbia? I'd like to hear your perspective. I did not get a good feel out of the ASW.

WTF is Fontana?


Are you from LA? I just randomly picked one of the many crappy towns in the IE.

Anyway, yeah, I belong in this thread. I've had a great time at Columbia, both academically and socially. I haven't found it stuffy -- there are some stuffy students, but there are like over 400 people. I choose not to focus on the negative of a group of people but rather embrace the positive, and I think that's worked out well for me. Also, I've made some very careful decisions in navigating law school -- choosing how I would study, how I would socialize, and what classes / activities I would take on so that I would be happy and fulfilled, without regard to what I thought might be expected or "the right thing to do." But, hey, if I'm going to have all the downsides of being "old," I may as well take advantage of my wisdom & experience 8)

All the options you've got on the table are great. I picked Columbia for three major reasons. First, it seemed like it would open more doors, especially outside New York City and just BigLaw since I didn't want to stay here after graduation & I don't want to live out my life at a BigLaw firm -- and so far, so good. Second, I didn't want the pressure to be at or near the top of my class that I feel I'd have if I went to a lower-ranked school. Third, I'm living in New York but with relatively affordable housing in a neighborhood that is great for running & generally being outdoors -- while still being able to take a subway and quickly get to the city proper... PM if you have other questions.

delusional
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby delusional » Wed Apr 06, 2011 8:55 am

Hey old folk! I'm posting to invite you to comment on my thread about young families in school. I'm doing this here because I know that lots of mature people try to avoid the lounge, but that's where the topic fit, so... viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152597

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ahduth
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Re: OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT)

Postby ahduth » Wed Apr 06, 2011 7:32 pm

sbalive wrote:
ahduth wrote:
introversional wrote:Defintely trolling, b/c I think you're already decided on UCLA. Although you'll probably be annoyed at all the phoneys on the west coast as well.


No, I've roughly decided on NYU - 25k isn't a massive scholarship, but it's a T6 and it seems to fit with what I'm looking for.

sbalive wrote:Nice troll -- but, seriously, as a Columbia student, I'd be thrilled if you didn't come. Enjoy making $30K doing personal injury work in Fontana 8)


I hope you actually belong in this thread. You're 30+ and at Columbia? I'd like to hear your perspective. I did not get a good feel out of the ASW.

WTF is Fontana?


Are you from LA? I just randomly picked one of the many crappy towns in the IE.

Anyway, yeah, I belong in this thread. I've had a great time at Columbia, both academically and socially. I haven't found it stuffy -- there are some stuffy students, but there are like over 400 people. I choose not to focus on the negative of a group of people but rather embrace the positive, and I think that's worked out well for me. Also, I've made some very careful decisions in navigating law school -- choosing how I would study, how I would socialize, and what classes / activities I would take on so that I would be happy and fulfilled, without regard to what I thought might be expected or "the right thing to do." But, hey, if I'm going to have all the downsides of being "old," I may as well take advantage of my wisdom & experience 8)

All the options you've got on the table are great. I picked Columbia for three major reasons. First, it seemed like it would open more doors, especially outside New York City and just BigLaw since I didn't want to stay here after graduation & I don't want to live out my life at a BigLaw firm -- and so far, so good. Second, I didn't want the pressure to be at or near the top of my class that I feel I'd have if I went to a lower-ranked school. Third, I'm living in New York but with relatively affordable housing in a neighborhood that is great for running & generally being outdoors -- while still being able to take a subway and quickly get to the city proper... PM if you have other questions.


Cool, sorry about all the rage before, I shouldn't be allowed to post after drinking martinis.

For me, I have a similar concern about not rotting in Big Law forever. So that cuts both ways - on the one hand, CLS and NYU give me a great shot at finding more interesting positions, or at least ones that get me into a GC's office or something along those lines earlier. The profs I spoke with at NYU about my background definitely thought my experience was an asset, but that I would have to be selective about the firms I looked at. Firms that pulled work from a shared pool and didn't allow for very much partner contact would be poor fits for me, for example.

The flipside is that UCLA would have me graduating with only 75k in debt. I'm just concerned the opportunities wouldn't be there, because in the end I'm going to law school to do something both different and interesting, and I don't want to be debt-free but lacking for interesting career options. UCLA is a very good school, but it's still a notch below the T6.

The cultural thing at CLS was definitely a point for me. The admitted students seemed a lot younger (piles and piles of people graduating college in 2011), and if I remember correctly that impression is borne out by their class profile (relatively to NYU anyhow). The problem with it was that I didn't really talk with very many people who seemed like they had much fire to them. Interestingly one of the people with who I was most impressed was a non-trad 2L, who seemed to be weaving together his current studies with his prior background in a neat way.

At the end of the day, NYU over CLS is purely a fit thing for me. I just question if I should take the money from UCLA, because of my age. Everyone would rather be debt free sooner rather than later, but I feel a little bit of... urgency to it, I suppose.

edit: Oh I'm not from LA at all, I'm from Chicago. I applied to UCLA for the weather. :D




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