OLD SCHOOL (must be 30 and over ITT) Forum

[Lawer101]

Six Navy pilots are attending advanced tactical training: Maverick, Goose, Iceman, Hollywood, Jester and Viper. The school flies three types of aircraft, F-14, F-5 and MiG-28. Each aircraft carries one pilot and one naval flight officer. Maverick, a pilot, does not fly the MiG. Iceman and Jester have never flown together. Goose and Hollywood have the same flight duties.

Who sleeps with Charlie?

Good luck with LG.

That's funny!

[JCFindley]

Six Navy pilots are attending advanced tactical training: Maverick, Goose, Iceman, Hollywood, Jester and Viper. The school flies three types of aircraft, F-14, F-5 and MiG-28. Each aircraft carries one pilot and one naval flight officer. Maverick, a pilot, does not fly the MiG. Iceman and Jester have never flown together. Goose and Hollywood have the same flight duties.

Who sleeps with Charlie?

Good luck with LG.

ROFLMAO!!!!

[JCFindley]

Hey Now!

Good to find this thread. I have trolled countless threads and forums looking for info, so this is definitely welcome!

I am 34 and NOT a fighter pilot. I did, however, watch Top Gun as a child. So there is that. I worked as an Operations Manager for seven years at an auto repossession firm after UG. Pretty tough work, got shot at, got beat up and was yelled out daily. Good times. In 2006, went to grad school and earned an MFA. Now working as an adjunct Professor at two Universities, the pay is dismal, the hours long and I am absolutely sure that I do not I want a career in art school academia. Also have several years of experience as a managing editor for a few publications. But the call to LS has always been there and now it is unbearable. Signed up for the June LSAT. Will see what the score is and go from there.

Now, I am going to go watch Top Gun again, while I study LG. Glad to have found this thread!

Watching Top Gun is good enough for me. Frankly, working as a repo guy is probably FAR more dangerous.......

I know what you mean about the call..... Good luck on the LSAT!

[artvegas901]

Hey Now!

Good to find this thread. I have trolled countless threads and forums looking for info, so this is definitely welcome!

I am 34 and NOT a fighter pilot. I did, however, watch Top Gun as a child. So there is that. I worked as an Operations Manager for seven years at an auto repossession firm after UG. Pretty tough work, got shot at, got beat up and was yelled out daily. Good times. In 2006, went to grad school and earned an MFA. Now working as an adjunct Professor at two Universities, the pay is dismal, the hours long and I am absolutely sure that I do not I want a career in art school academia. Also have several years of experience as a managing editor for a few publications. But the call to LS has always been there and now it is unbearable. Signed up for the June LSAT. Will see what the score is and go from there.

Now, I am going to go watch Top Gun again, while I study LG. Glad to have found this thread!

Watching Top Gun is good enough for me. Frankly, working as a repo guy is probably FAR more dangerous.......

I know what you mean about the call..... Good luck on the LSAT!

Cheers...

repossessing was always more dangerous during the xmas holiday's. Crazy really. The LG's haven't been so bad, but damn these LR's are killing me.

[artvegas901]

Six Navy pilots are attending advanced tactical training: Maverick, Goose, Iceman, Hollywood, Jester and Viper. The school flies three types of aircraft, F-14, F-5 and MiG-28. Each aircraft carries one pilot and one naval flight officer. Maverick, a pilot, does not fly the MiG. Iceman and Jester have never flown together. Goose and Hollywood have the same flight duties.

Who sleeps with Charlie?

Good luck with LG.

LMAO...what I wouldn't give to have sleep with Charlie back then.

[Archoholic]

Because it's apparently self-disclosure week here (for me, at least), here's my story:
Licensed architect, aged 37 glorious years, with a wife and two sons. Having worked similar hours to lawyers for the past 12 years, and having no job prospects in this terrible architecture hiring market (woe is me), I've applied to multiple LS. My plan is to go into construction law, where I would be one of approximately 65 lawyers also licensed to practice architecture. I'm currently waiting to hear back from the local T2 school that would arguably give me the best JD for the market, and have been bolstered by the fact that I've gotten into two other schools.

Not looking for advice, but am open to reading others' opinions and facts.

[spleenworship]

Because it's apparently self-disclosure week here (for me, at least), here's my story:
Licensed architect, aged 37 glorious years, with a wife and two sons. Having worked similar hours to lawyers for the past 12 years, and having no job prospects in this terrible architecture hiring market (woe is me), I've applied to multiple LS. My plan is to go into construction law, where I would be one of approximately 65 lawyers also licensed to practice architecture. I'm currently waiting to hear back from the local T2 school that would arguably give me the best JD for the market, and have been bolstered by the fact that I've gotten into two other schools.

Not looking for advice, but am open to reading others' opinions and facts.

don't forget to negotiate for scholarships.

[Archoholic]

don't forget to negotiate for scholarships.

Apparently, my top (one might say only) choice doesn't negotiate. I believe I'm screwed on that point, due to my very late application submissions.

Which brings us to another point: If I do get in PT at my top choice, do I retake and reapply much earlier, to try for FT and possible $$, or just take the PT offer? (rhetorical question, that) It's a risky venture.

[spleenworship]

don't forget to negotiate for scholarships.

Apparently, my top (one might say only) choice doesn't negotiate. I believe I'm screwed on that point, due to my very late application submissions.

Which brings us to another point: If I do get in PT at my top choice, do I retake and reapply much earlier, to try for FT and possible $$, or just take the PT offer? (rhetorical question, that) It's a risky venture.

I would go ft if at all possible. Work + school + family + extra loans for fourth year = fail, IMO.

[Archoholic]

@spleenworship

Counterpoint: You can take work out of that equation. I'm currently unemployed, and not seeing an end to it. Architecture is DEAD right now. One professional contact told me someone she knew in the field told her this is the worst it's been in the past 50 years. I know, inadmissible, hearsay. lol

Counter-counterpoint: getting a job in architecture while going to LS PT would require 45-60 hour work weeks. And most likely business travel. Which reinforces your point.

Counter-counter-counterpoint: I can study my ass off and possibly not get the 165+ this school wants in FT applicants. Then I'd be in the same place I am now, but a year later.

What I really want is to get started with this career change, but moving my family for one of my FT offers is not realistic. Looking like a really tough decision is coming up.

[spleenworship]

@spleenworship

Counterpoint: You can take work out of that equation. I'm currently unemployed, and not seeing an end to it. Architecture is DEAD right now. One professional contact told me someone she knew in the field told her this is the worst it's been in the past 50 years. I know, inadmissible, hearsay. lol

Counter-counterpoint: getting a job in architecture while going to LS PT would require 45-60 hour work weeks. And most likely business travel. Which reinforces your point.

Counter-counter-counterpoint: I can study my ass off and possibly not get the 165+ this school wants in FT applicants. Then I'd be in the same place I am now, but a year later.

What I really want is to get started with this career change, but moving my family for one of my FT offers is not realistic. Looking like a really tough decision is coming up.

If you can't get into FT this year, you could go PT and then transfer to FT after the first year (at the same school).

[r6_philly]

PT is the way to go, maybe work will pick up anyway. I'd probably gone PT if I lived in DC, but here here I had to do FT because of limited choices.

[haus]

PT is the way to go, maybe work will pick up anyway. I'd probably gone PT if I lived in DC, but here here I had to do FT because of limited choices.

DC, which I happen to live and work near, seems to have a one of the widest set of PT options in the country.

Although I would like it if one of the PT programs ran a weekend program instead of the traditional night school route.

[accidentalhippy]

Hey there fellow oldies (38 right now, with a 2 year old who's going on 12),

I have a question about 1L summer associateships:
1. Do/did you have one?
2. How did you find it and how early did you start looking (are you even allowed to start looking before 12/1?)?
3. Is/was it paid?
4. How did prospective employers treat your age and/or family responsibilities (primarily for those with kiddos)?

I'm an 0L with a slight long-term planning obsession.

[skw]

Hey there fellow oldies (38 right now, with a 2 year old who's going on 12),

I have a question about 1L summer associateships:
1. Do/did you have one?
2. How did you find it and how early did you start looking (are you even allowed to start looking before 12/1?)?
3. Is/was it paid?
4. How did prospective employers treat your age and/or family responsibilities (primarily for those with kiddos)?

I'm an 0L with a slight long-term planning obsession.

1L (almost 2L...), 34.
1. Yes
2. OCI -- started looking Dec 1, but mostly determined that in my secondary market there are VERY few paid 1L internships and that all of the firms offering them would be at OCI, so looking ahead for me did not help, but that might be different in another market.
3. Yes.
4. My age was a benefit. Employers see someone who has had a career and think -- wow, there is someone I won't have to teach how to "have a job." Also, a track record of successful employment is evidence you are successful. That said, all the work experience in the world WILL NOT substitute for top grades. Without them I would have had no shot at a 1L (paid) SA. Once I had the grades, interviews and landing the position were a breeze -- credentials speak for themselves at that point. I do not have children, but most of the people interviewing you will be around your age and have families (at least that was the case in my market). I don't think it would weigh against you in any way. If you do well, the fact that you're multitasking while balancing school and a family with a small child will be evidence of your future value to the firm.

[KMaine]

Hey there fellow oldies (38 right now, with a 2 year old who's going on 12),

I have a question about 1L summer associateships:
1. Do/did you have one?
2. How did you find it and how early did you start looking (are you even allowed to start looking before 12/1?)?
3. Is/was it paid?
4. How did prospective employers treat your age and/or family responsibilities (primarily for those with kiddos)?

I'm an 0L with a slight long-term planning obsession.

Just to give a different perspective - 38 y.o. 3L with 3 children

1. No, and you should try, but you are very unlikely to get one either. URMS have a little more luck.
2. Started looking on 12/1
3. Ended up working for a prof. It was paid.
4. Hard to say exactly, but I think it had an overall negative impact. I was top 20% with Law Review at a t14 and got 0 callbacks out of about 20 NYC interviews (you can take this for what it is worth, but I am certain that I am an excellent interviewer). Had much better luck in my hometown markets (Boston, Portland Maine, Manchester NH). Though you may have better skills than your younger classmates, that will not impress most employers. You are likely to do less well employment-wise as comared to similarly situated younger classmates. I think that legal employers really like work experience as long as you are under 30 and or if you are in a smaller market, have a science or business background. Please note, I am really happy with my employment outcome, but it was not easy and there were some iffy moments.

Just wanted to give another perspective, I am not one of those "don't go to law school people." Law school is great, and kind of easy. Best of luck.

[Rotor]

45 year old 3L

1. CDO basically told us don't even bother so I didn't. A few of my friends (some not URM) wound up with paid SA positions. I got an internship with a local Art. III judge.
2. Started researching over Thanksgiving. Decided to target a small handfull with apps in the mail on 12/1. The rest I was going to do over winter break. Luckily one of that small subset bit.
3. Unpaid. Also didn't qualify for the school's public interest stipend b/c working in chambers.
4. I think it was an advantage--especially through 2L OCI. Yes, there were firms that asked me weird questions that suggested age without saying it, but there were enough firms out there where it wasn't an issue.

[r6_philly]

1L 35, 2 kids

1. Yes
2. I looked before 12/1, and came up with a list of firms. I wrote my legal writing briefs with the attention to use them as writing samples, so I took extra care and made sure I didn't have to do anything to it after 12/1. Resume and cover letters were prepared early in the semester. I sent everything out right after 12/1. Our career office encouraged me to apply, they said if anyone will get one, I would haha.
3. Yes, market paying firm. I was lucky enough to have two offers from firms.
4. Kids come into my conversation naturally most of the time. I love them to death, I can't imagine going through an interview trying to hide that fact. I was also told that if you reach the callback stage, it's probably best if they know you have kids, so it won't become a surprise after you started working. If the firm is not very receptive of you having kids, then perhaps you want to make sure you find that out before you work there. Overall I think it's a plus at most places because your older interviewers can relate to you better since they talk about their kids. They might be more comfortable being around you because there is no generation gap. You won't have to work hard to prove maturity.

Being older isn't always an advantage, so do whatever you can to present the positives and advantages of being older in every cover letter and interview.

[accidentalhippy]

Thank you ALL for the excellent responses thus far!

Another question:
Did any of you pursue non-profit positions for the summer and if so, did you: receive a salary; take out loans; receive a public interest summer scholarship (are there any of these that are not school-based?); or use work study?

Also, did/does the position include substantive legal work?

Thank you!

[hoonhooon]

Hi guys,
glad to find this post.
I am 33, bombed my LSATs, but still a wanna-be-patent-lawyer.
Seriously debating between waiting another year and attending Santa Clara or UNH with 25K/year.

would appriciate any opinion.

[chem!]

I've lurked in this thread but never posted. I'm 44, retaking in June from a Dec. migraine score fail. I've been teaching high school science for 16 years, have a B.S. In Zoology and a M.A. in Science Ed. I'm obviously seriously considering a career change. We'll see how it goes. I have two kids and a supportive husband. Obviously, my biggest concern is finding gainful employment after LS.

[dingbat]

I've lurked in this thread but never posted. I'm 44, retaking in June from a Dec. migraine score fail. I've been teaching high school science for 16 years, have a B.S. In Zoology and a M.A. in Science Ed. I'm obviously seriously considering a career change. We'll see how it goes. I have two kids and a supportive husband. Obviously, my biggest concern is finding gainful employment after LS.

Two kids and a supporting wife too, but I'm giving up a six figure job.... I keep thinking I must be nuts

[chem!]

I've lurked in this thread but never posted. I'm 44, retaking in June from a Dec. migraine score fail. I've been teaching high school science for 16 years, have a B.S. In Zoology and a M.A. in Science Ed. I'm obviously seriously considering a career change. We'll see how it goes. I have two kids and a supportive husband. Obviously, my biggest concern is finding gainful employment after LS.

Two kids and a supporting wife too, but I'm giving up a six figure job.... I keep thinking I must be nuts

If this plays out, I'll be giving up crappy pay, but crappy pay for a job with summers off and with retirement benefits. I teach in TX, FTR.

[r6_philly]

I've lurked in this thread but never posted. I'm 44, retaking in June from a Dec. migraine score fail. I've been teaching high school science for 16 years, have a B.S. In Zoology and a M.A. in Science Ed. I'm obviously seriously considering a career change. We'll see how it goes. I have two kids and a supportive husband. Obviously, my biggest concern is finding gainful employment after LS.

Two kids and a supporting wife too, but I'm giving up a six figure job.... I keep thinking I must be nuts

I am pretty much in the same position. My rationale is to upgrade my 10-year future while at the same time transition into a career that I think fits me more. I did a lot of thinking, research, and hedging before coming to law school. Truth is, I could probably have gone to law school for free and still come out with a job, but my options would be limited. So plan to have the best exit options before you start. Don't bet your future on a small chance of landing a competitive job.

[r6_philly]

Hi guys,
glad to find this post.
I am 33, bombed my LSATs, but still a wanna-be-patent-lawyer.
Seriously debating between waiting another year and attending Santa Clara or UNH with 25K/year.

would appriciate any opinion.

I would consider investing in a really good LSAT course if you have not done so. Although your chance of becoming a patent lawyer may be good out of SC or UNH, but you are really betting on one option (read my response above). So it's either patent law or nothing (or close to nothing), I don't like those odds especially considering you can't just go practice solo in patent law. If you can get into a better school, you may have some other exit options in case patent law doesn't work out. Or at least you go those SC or UNH for free. I am hesitant to bet $25k at those schools to see if you can finish near the top of the class during 1L year which isn't always within your control.