T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

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pu_golf88
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby pu_golf88 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:59 pm

I vote T14.

Zach0901
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby Zach0901 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:04 pm

Thanks for all the help guys, I think the best thing I can do now is focus on school and the LSAT to make sure I fall within the projected numbers (or better) and go from there. Also I think once I get those numbers back I need to figure out where I plan on practicing because as of right now Ive always dreamed of LA or NY which would imply its a better idea to go to a higher ranked school but all of this could change. I also think this thread will be extremely helpful to others since im sure this occurs very frequently on each cycle so feel free to continue to give advice and look for my next post in June once I have all my stats!

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Drake014
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby Drake014 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:08 pm

bk1 wrote:
Drake014 wrote:I could be at Harvard or Yale and took Berkeley because it was a free ride and that's where my wife wanted. I have a 2L summer job at a major firm that I could really see myself at for years to come.


I don't think that anybody giving out advice every sincerely thinks that you should abandon your spouse/children/etc for law school and understands that sometimes you take a worse school due to family concerns and there is nothing wrong with that. The fact is that this applies only to a small minority of applicants and I think those applicants can figure for themselves what value to place on location according to their family situation. But for the rest of applicants it is pretty fair to make generalizations without regard to any sort of family situation.

Also, just because you managed to do well at Boalt (or any other school for that matter) doesn't mean it is the right choice. I can find biglaw partners from TTT's, it doesn't mean that people should make that same choice when presented with legitimately better options.

That being said, I think that H/Y versus Boalt for free is a pretty evenly weighted scenario.


I agree that equating someone else's situation to mine is not a good idea, I implied that in my full post.

I'm annoyed by people who advise the highest ranking school over a much less expensive one because they typically offer bad logic or no logic to back up their advice. Here's my logic on why you should do the exact opposite of what most people on this board usually advise. This is assuming that the poster is average and has nothing unique going on (results may always vary)

If you're not aiming for Biglaw, the public cares more about your commitment than about what school you went to. Small and medium firms are filled with people from local law schools... so no minus for attending one. If you're aiming for Biglaw, that area is filled with people from the T14. However, it also has its fair share of people who scored at the top of a T1 (or even T2-3) at a local school. If you have to pay sticker at the T14 or get a near full ride at a T1 in the market you plan to work in, take the scholarship. Chances are, you will be fairly near the top of your class (you wouldn't be getting a scholarship if your grades and LSAT score sucked ass by that school's standards).

If it turns out you suck so much ass that you'd be at the bottom of either a T14 or T1 school, at least you're not in much debt at the T1.

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bk1
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby bk1 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:14 pm

Drake014 wrote:Chances are, you will be fairly near the top of your class (you wouldn't be getting a scholarship if your grades and LSAT score sucked ass by that school's standards).

If it turns out you suck so much ass that you'd be at the bottom of either a T14 or T1 school, at least you're not in much debt at the T1.


I was going to say that assuming you'd do well just seems less assured than that, but your second point makes sense that if you'd end up badly you'd end up badly.

However, what about a scenario where you end up around median or top 1/3? At CCN, and possibly the schools right below them, this would nab you biglaw. At a lot of strong regionals it definitely would not. I don't think it is safe to assume that you would necessarily get top 10-20% at a T1 if you got top 30-50% at a T14. If anything I think the best way to look at it is assume you would end up in the same place at either school, or maybe a small jump at a T1, but nothing extraordinary.

I just don't think that answering a few more questions right on the LSAT or getting a better GPA really gives you that much better a shot than your T1 classmates who may be only a few LSAT points removed from you (mid 160's versus high 160's/170).

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Drake014
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby Drake014 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:19 pm

bk1 wrote:
Drake014 wrote:Chances are, you will be fairly near the top of your class (you wouldn't be getting a scholarship if your grades and LSAT score sucked ass by that school's standards).

If it turns out you suck so much ass that you'd be at the bottom of either a T14 or T1 school, at least you're not in much debt at the T1.


I was going to say that assuming you'd do well just seems less assured than that, but your second point makes sense that if you'd end up badly you'd end up badly.

However, what about a scenario where you end up around median or top 1/3? At CCN, and possibly the schools right below them, this would nab you biglaw. At a lot of strong regionals it definitely would not. I don't think it is safe to assume that you would necessarily get top 10-20% at a T1 if you got top 30-50% at a T14. If anything I think the best way to look at it is assume you would end up in the same place at either school, or maybe a small jump at a T1, but nothing extraordinary.

I just don't think that answering a few more questions right on the LSAT or getting a better GPA really gives you that much better a shot than your T1 classmates who may be only a few LSAT points removed from you (mid 160's versus high 160's/170).


LSAT's somewhat of a predictor of 1L grades and 1L grades get you to your 2L summer job. GPA tends to be a better predictor of 2L and 3L grades, which also can get you firm positions (though they're less helpful than 1L grades even combined in my opinion.) So, given that people with higher LSATs and GPAs almost always go to higher ranked schools, I'm going to say that getting in the top 30-50% in a T14 will get you in the top 10-20% at a T1 (depending on the T1).

Edit: I'm just using your %s there, my point is mainly that someone who makes 50% at Harvard is not going to make 50% at UC Davis.

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bk1
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby bk1 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:26 pm

Drake014 wrote:LSAT's somewhat of a predictor of 1L grades and 1L grades get you to your 2L summer job. GPA tends to be a better predictor of 2L and 3L grades, which also can get you firm positions (though they're less helpful than 1L grades even combined in my opinion.) So, given that people with higher LSATs and GPAs almost always go to higher ranked schools, I'm going to say that getting in the top 30-50% in a T14 will get you in the top 10-20% at a T1 (depending on the T1).

Edit: I'm just using your %s there, my point is mainly that someone who makes 50% at Harvard is not going to make 50% at UC Davis.


I know how it works, but the LSAT is what, a 0.4 correlation with 1L grades? It just doesn't seem strong enough to bank on.

To me I think it depends on what type of "cushion" you want. Do you want your cushion extending to median/submedian at a school where firms will dig that low for biglaw? Or do you want a cushion extending to supersubmedian where you will still have minimal debt if you go that low?

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Drake014
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby Drake014 » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:52 pm

bk1 wrote:
Drake014 wrote:LSAT's somewhat of a predictor of 1L grades and 1L grades get you to your 2L summer job. GPA tends to be a better predictor of 2L and 3L grades, which also can get you firm positions (though they're less helpful than 1L grades even combined in my opinion.) So, given that people with higher LSATs and GPAs almost always go to higher ranked schools, I'm going to say that getting in the top 30-50% in a T14 will get you in the top 10-20% at a T1 (depending on the T1).

Edit: I'm just using your %s there, my point is mainly that someone who makes 50% at Harvard is not going to make 50% at UC Davis.


I know how it works, but the LSAT is what, a 0.4 correlation with 1L grades? It just doesn't seem strong enough to bank on.

To me I think it depends on what type of "cushion" you want. Do you want your cushion extending to median/submedian at a school where firms will dig that low for biglaw? Or do you want a cushion extending to supersubmedian where you will still have minimal debt if you go that low?


I'm not talking about "banking" on anything. I'm going off of chances. To me, if you're counting on doing well enough at a T14 to get a Biglaw job in order to pay off $200k in loans, you're the one whose banking. Plenty of people at T14s end up not getting work these days.

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whitman
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Re: T14 with no scholarships or Tier 1 w/ partial

Postby whitman » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:38 pm

How do people feel about, say, sticker at NCG vs. a modest scholarship at Vandy/UCLA/USC vs.a small scholarship at a strong regional like UW, which already has a lower tuition, making it more comparable to a half scholly at the other schools listed. This is assuming the applicant is interested in living in the Northwest.




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