Baylor--Something Positive?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
emhellmer
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:53 am

Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby emhellmer » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:23 pm

Hello. I am considering Baylor Law, and am wondering if anyone has anything positive to say about it? I have searched these forums, and have gathered that most posters think that Baylor is a terrible choice. Does anyone have another opinion? Any current Baylor students that might be able to offer some insight?

Aqualibrium
Posts: 2011
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:57 am

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:38 pm

Everything is bigger in Texas?

User avatar
DamnLSAT
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2010 3:14 pm

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby DamnLSAT » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:49 pm

Not a Baylor student, but want to go there. From my talks with people who considered Baylor or ended up going there, I can tell you that the advocacy program is top-notch. If you want to do litigation, then it is definitely a school to consider. Also, it seems to have a good rep in Dallas (where I'm from) along with SMU.

Aqualibrium
Posts: 2011
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:57 am

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:57 pm

DamnLSAT wrote:Not a Baylor student, but want to go there. From my talks with people who considered Baylor or ended up going there, I can tell you that the advocacy program is top-notch. If you want to do litigation, then it is definitely a school to consider. Also, it seems to have a good rep in Dallas (where I'm from) along with SMU.



Fantastic advocacy program, but don't go there with your heart set on participating in that program unless Baylor is your absolute best option. Schools with great trial/moot court programs often treat them like a religion, and as a result, those programs are extremely competitive. Baylor is no different. If you make the trial team, you'll definitely learn a lot. It's an amazing and invaluable experience...I say that from personal experience, my school has a great trial program, and I've learned more there than in any one class. All that said, it's incredibly competitive, and Baylor as a whole has a notorious reputation for being incredibly competitive...If you survive the gauntlet, you'll be better prepared than the majority of law school graduates to advocate for your clients, understand juries, apply the rules of evidence, and navigate a court room. The problem is, most people won't survive the gauntlet.

User avatar
CliveStaples
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:37 pm

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby CliveStaples » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:58 pm

One of the biggest problems with Baylor is how much you pay for what you get. That being said, if you can get a nice size scholarship to Baylor then it's a very good choice. People are afraid of the trial court in your 3L because it's very time consuming but every lawyer in texas knows no one is better prepared to practice law than Baylor students. Not many Baylor grads get big law jobs which is what makes the price tag so tough to swallow and why people on this forum have such bad things to say about it (people on here believe that if you're not in biglaw making 160k starting out then you're a failure in life) but it has a great reputation anywhere in the state and even to bordering states... Oh yea and Waco isn't exactly the greatest town in the world but it's not the worst either. It's probably a good town to go to law school in because there aren't many distractions during the week but on the weekend you're a little over an hour away from either dallas or austin.

User avatar
emhellmer
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:53 am

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby emhellmer » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:11 pm

Thanks for the responses. I was just offered a full scholarship, and think I would have to be crazy to turn it down barring an even bigger scholarship elsewhere (unlikely). I'm actually desperate to hear something nice about the school at this point. I'm in Houston, and the lawyers I know say:

1. "Baylor isn't as good as UT or UH, but it's still good and all that really matters is that you finish in the top 10%, no matter where you go. That is if you want a big law firm job. If you don't want a biglaw job, then it doesn't really matter where you go." (from a partner at a major law firm).

2. "That is the best school in Texas. Harvard is better, but I'd turn down Harvard for a free ride to Baylor." (chief counsel at an energy company).

3. "Very good school, yadda yadda yadda, go there" from assorted other lawyers.

I've just heard so much bad that it's almost overshadowing the good! Anyway, I know I'm not the only one here considering a full ride to Baylor. Anyone going to the preview day this weekend?

User avatar
lisjjen
Posts: 1242
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:19 am

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby lisjjen » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:18 pm

emhellmer wrote:2. "That is the best school in Texas. Harvard is better, but I'd turn down Harvard for a free ride to Baylor." (chief counsel at an energy company).


Image

Sorry. I've been wanting to use that GIF all day long.

Aqualibrium
Posts: 2011
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:57 am

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby Aqualibrium » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:21 pm

emhellmer wrote:Thanks for the responses. I was just offered a full scholarship, and think I would have to be crazy to turn it down barring an even bigger scholarship elsewhere (unlikely). I'm actually desperate to hear something nice about the school at this point. I'm in Houston, and the lawyers I know say:

1. "Baylor isn't as good as UT or UH, but it's still good and all that really matters is that you finish in the top 10%, no matter where you go. That is if you want a big law firm job. If you don't want a biglaw job, then it doesn't really matter where you go." (from a partner at a major law firm).

2. "That is the best school in Texas. Harvard is better, but I'd turn down Harvard for a free ride to Baylor." (chief counsel at an energy company).

3. "Very good school, yadda yadda yadda, go there" from assorted other lawyers.

I've just heard so much bad that it's almost overshadowing the good! Anyway, I know I'm not the only one here considering a full ride to Baylor. Anyone going to the preview day this weekend?



LOL yeah number 2 is smoking some stuff. I guess I could see what he means though. From the standpoint of someone who wants to hire a kid then not have to hand hold, a Baylor grad on Trial Ad, Moot Court, and in the top 10% is probably going to be better.

Baylor is cutthroat, and you'll need to do extremely well. For free, baring an admission at UT or a large scholarship at SMU, I'd say go.

User avatar
Marionberry
Posts: 1302
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:24 pm

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby Marionberry » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:25 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
DamnLSAT wrote:Not a Baylor student, but want to go there. From my talks with people who considered Baylor or ended up going there, I can tell you that the advocacy program is top-notch. If you want to do litigation, then it is definitely a school to consider. Also, it seems to have a good rep in Dallas (where I'm from) along with SMU.



Fantastic advocacy program, but don't go there with your heart set on participating in that program unless Baylor is your absolute best option. Schools with great trial/moot court programs often treat them like a religion, and as a result, those programs are extremely competitive. Baylor is no different. If you make the trial team, you'll definitely learn a lot. It's an amazing and invaluable experience...I say that from personal experience, my school has a great trial program, and I've learned more there than in any one class. All that said, it's incredibly competitive, and Baylor as a whole has a notorious reputation for being incredibly competitive...If you survive the gauntlet, you'll be better prepared than the majority of law school graduates to advocate for your clients, understand juries, apply the rules of evidence, and navigate a court room. The problem is, most people won't survive the gauntlet.


Not entirely sure if this is what you're talking about, but practice court (Baylor's trial advocacy program) isn't hard to get into. In fact, it's a mandatory part of the curriculum. And extremely grueling. But the upside is that you'll probably come out of Baylor as or more competent than graduates from any other school in the state, which is good if you want to go directly into litigation/trial work. That said, it is in Waco (which sucks in its own right, but also leaves it without a home market) and is not cheap, though they're usually pretty generous with scholarships. People hate on it a lot on here, but it's a very well respected school in Texas. If you want biglaw, like another poster stated, it might not be the best choice. If you want to practice anywhere in texas besides Dallas, Austin, Houston, or San Antonio(though its a T4, St. Mary's seems to dominate San Antonio from what I hear) it's an excellent choice. I have a buddy who is graduating from Baylor and has a job lined up in Dallas, though he is in the top 2-3% of his class. According to him though he is not the only one who found a job paying $120k+, but he is one of relatively few.

User avatar
emhellmer
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:53 am

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby emhellmer » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:34 pm

lisjjen, LOL! Love the gif.

I had the same thought: "OMG, according to USNWR, Baylor is ranked 60, which is below UH at 50, SMU at 41, and of course UT, which is tied with UCLA for 15, which is right below the T-14, which are the only schools worth going to anyway! Silly Chief Counsel."

Then I realized he probably wasn't aware of the rankings. But he was in a position to hire recent graduates. And he does have a $1 million high-rise condo. And a Benz. Aqua, strongly considering paying even sticker at UT if I get in, and still waiting to hear from UH and SMU (hoping for a big scholarship), but I pretty much agree with your assessment. I guess I need to perfect the fine art of backpack arson?

User avatar
CliveStaples
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:37 pm

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby CliveStaples » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:05 pm

emhellmer wrote:lisjjen, LOL! Love the gif.

I had the same thought: "OMG, according to USNWR, Baylor is ranked 60, which is below UH at 50, SMU at 41, and of course UT, which is tied with UCLA for 15, which is right below the T-14, which are the only schools worth going to anyway! Silly Chief Counsel."

Then I realized he probably wasn't aware of the rankings. But he was in a position to hire recent graduates. And he does have a $1 million high-rise condo. And a Benz. Aqua, strongly considering paying even sticker at UT if I get in, and still waiting to hear from UH and SMU (hoping for a big scholarship), but I pretty much agree with your assessment. I guess I need to perfect the fine art of backpack arson?


Do you want to work in houston? because a good scholarship to UH might be worth not going to Baylor so that you can build connections...

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11725
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby kalvano » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:17 pm

If Baylor gave you a full ride, SMU / UofH are going to throw down some good money.

Take them up on it.

User avatar
twert
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby twert » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:25 pm

when i was looking at baylor last year, the negative things people said about the school concerned the culture of the school and the culture of waco. That's pretty subjective and only you can decide if they are negatives or not.

The simple truth is, if they gave you that much money, you probably have better options. SMU and Houston should be cheap if not free, and UT sticker should be hard to pass up if you get in.

User avatar
Fred_McGriff
Posts: 396
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:43 pm

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby Fred_McGriff » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:36 pm

Dr. Pepper Hour

http://www.baylor.edu/studentactivities ... p?id=75120

"Since 1953, Dr Pepper Hour has been a long-standing tradition of the Student Union. It is a time each week for students, faculty and staff to come together and socialize while enjoying a refreshing Dr Pepper float.

Dr Pepper Hour is held every Tuesday during the academic year between 3 p.m. and 4 p.m. in the Barfield Drawing Room of the BDSC. For those in Robinson Tower, enjoy Dr Pepper Hour in the Atrium on the 6th Floor [also on Tuesdays at 3 p.m.]"
Image

User avatar
emhellmer
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:53 am

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby emhellmer » Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:55 pm

OMG, Dr. Pepper hour! That looks awesome! They must have the same sort of relationship to Dr. Pepper that Emory has to Coca Cola (big endowment).

I have also learned that Baylor students get free admission to the sports events, which is very cool. I had a friend who went to Texas A&M and still had to pay something like $40 for football tickets. Going to crazy Big 12 games for FREE could be way cool, especially since the tailgaiting at a school where alcohol is prohibited must be lame.

User avatar
IAFG
Posts: 6665
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:26 pm

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby IAFG » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:10 pm

emhellmer wrote:But he was in a position to hire recent graduates.

He probably doesn't though. In-house jobs usually expect work experience at a firm, and there are usually scads of biglaw defectors to choose from. I'd also recommend taking what partners say with a grain of salt, depending how involved with recruiting they are. They can be pretty out of touch.

User avatar
CliveStaples
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:37 pm

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby CliveStaples » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:13 pm

emhellmer wrote:OMG, Dr. Pepper hour! That looks awesome! They must have the same sort of relationship to Dr. Pepper that Emory has to Coca Cola (big endowment).

I have also learned that Baylor students get free admission to the sports events, which is very cool. I had a friend who went to Texas A&M and still had to pay something like $40 for football tickets. Going to crazy Big 12 games for FREE could be way cool, especially since the tailgaiting at a school where alcohol is prohibited must be lame.


Dr. Pepper was created in Waco, TX and is a main sponsor for all baylor events.. Also, from what i've heard, the tickets are free but you more than pay for them with your tuition.

User avatar
twert
Posts: 414
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:13 pm

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby twert » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:33 pm

CliveStaples wrote:
emhellmer wrote:OMG, Dr. Pepper hour! That looks awesome! They must have the same sort of relationship to Dr. Pepper that Emory has to Coca Cola (big endowment).

I have also learned that Baylor students get free admission to the sports events, which is very cool. I had a friend who went to Texas A&M and still had to pay something like $40 for football tickets. Going to crazy Big 12 games for FREE could be way cool, especially since the tailgaiting at a school where alcohol is prohibited must be lame.


Dr. Pepper was created in Waco, TX and is a main sponsor for all baylor events.. Also, from what i've heard, the tickets are free but you more than pay for them with your tuition.

i like your name.

User avatar
CliveStaples
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:37 pm

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby CliveStaples » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:14 pm

twert wrote:
CliveStaples wrote:
emhellmer wrote:OMG, Dr. Pepper hour! That looks awesome! They must have the same sort of relationship to Dr. Pepper that Emory has to Coca Cola (big endowment).

I have also learned that Baylor students get free admission to the sports events, which is very cool. I had a friend who went to Texas A&M and still had to pay something like $40 for football tickets. Going to crazy Big 12 games for FREE could be way cool, especially since the tailgaiting at a school where alcohol is prohibited must be lame.


Dr. Pepper was created in Waco, TX and is a main sponsor for all baylor events.. Also, from what i've heard, the tickets are free but you more than pay for them with your tuition.

i like your name.

Thanks :wink:

User avatar
Lawquacious
Posts: 2037
Joined: Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:36 am

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby Lawquacious » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:40 pm

emhellmer wrote:I had the same thought: "OMG, according to USNWR, Baylor is ranked 60, which is below UH at 50, SMU at 41..



Hmmm.. after reading this I'm kinda thinking you're a troll (for Texas anyway).. or perhaps just looking at really old rankings of some sort? All these numbers are off from what I'm looking at: Baylor is 64, UH is 60, and SMU is 48 (rather than 60, 50, and 41 as you stated). Your number quotes also don't correspond with last year, so that's why I'm thinking you're either a troll or for some other reason have information that is not currently accurate.

User avatar
chadwick218
Posts: 1337
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:15 pm

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby chadwick218 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:02 am

It really depends on what options you have. If you have been admitted to the likes of UT, SMU, or U of H, I would suggest that Baylor is a poor choice. Baylor tends to be uber competitive with merit aid tied to academic performance and very little in the way to big law opportunities. In fact, I don't remember meeting a single Baylor grad during the 2L summer interview process.

With that being said, Baylor does have solid name recognition within the State of Texas.
Last edited by chadwick218 on Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
emhellmer
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:53 am

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby emhellmer » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:03 am

IAFG wrote:
emhellmer wrote:But he was in a position to hire recent graduates.

He probably doesn't though. In-house jobs usually expect work experience at a firm, and there are usually scads of biglaw defectors to choose from. I'd also recommend taking what partners say with a grain of salt, depending how involved with recruiting they are. They can be pretty out of touch.


Excellent input, thank you.

User avatar
emhellmer
Posts: 183
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:53 am

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby emhellmer » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:09 am

Lawquacious wrote:
emhellmer wrote:I had the same thought: "OMG, according to USNWR, Baylor is ranked 60, which is below UH at 50, SMU at 41..



Hmmm.. after reading this I'm kinda thinking you're a troll (for Texas anyway).. or perhaps just looking at really old rankings of some sort? All these numbers are off from what I'm looking at: Baylor is 64, UH is 60, and SMU is 48 (rather than 60, 50, and 41 as you stated). Your number quotes also don't correspond with last year, so that's why I'm thinking you're either a troll or for some other reason have information that is not currently accurate.


LOL! Thank you for correcting me in my reckless use of the USNWR rankings. How embarrassing; I hadn't even bothered to check the numbers before posting!

Just one question: was that deliberate irony? :lol:

User avatar
patrickd139
Posts: 2883
Joined: Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:53 pm

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby patrickd139 » Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:13 am

chadwick218 wrote:It really depends on what options you have. If you have been admitted to the likes of UT, SMU, or U of H, I would suggest that Baylor is a poor choice. Baylor tends to be uber competitive with merit aid tied to academic performance and very little in the way to big law opportunities. In fact, I don't remember meeting a single Baylor grad during the 2L summer interview process.

With that being said, Baylor does have solid name recognition within the State of Texas.

Extremely well-put.

Do not go to Baylor expecting big/mid-law in Dallas, Houston or (most assuredly) Austin. Both my parents graduated from Baylor Law, I turned down major money there, and I'm very good friends with quite a few Baylor Law students, so I'm very familiar with the school, its positives and negatives. Almost all of my friends hate it and who would go elsewhere in a heartbeat if given the chance. If your stats on your profile are true, you can do much better than Baylor.

Just remember: where there's smoke, there's fire.

User avatar
francisConn
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:06 pm

Re: Baylor--Something Positive?

Postby francisConn » Tue Jan 18, 2011 5:36 pm

patrickd139 wrote:
chadwick218 wrote:It really depends on what options you have. If you have been admitted to the likes of UT, SMU, or U of H, I would suggest that Baylor is a poor choice. Baylor tends to be uber competitive with merit aid tied to academic performance and very little in the way to big law opportunities. In fact, I don't remember meeting a single Baylor grad during the 2L summer interview process.

With that being said, Baylor does have solid name recognition within the State of Texas.

Extremely well-put.

Do not go to Baylor expecting big/mid-law in Dallas, Houston or (most assuredly) Austin. Both my parents graduated from Baylor Law, I turned down major money there, and I'm very good friends with quite a few Baylor Law students, so I'm very familiar with the school, its positives and negatives. Almost all of my friends hate it and who would go elsewhere in a heartbeat if given the chance. If your stats on your profile are true, you can do much better than Baylor.

Just remember: where there's smoke, there's fire.



I remember seeing a study done by Texas Lawyer (I think; something like that) that was all about student ratings of their law schools. Baylor didn't fare as well as most Texas schools. Now, that could be for subjective reasons, i.e., most people don't like Waco but you might be the sort of person who would. Who knows.

I noticed legalnut.com's ratings have Baylor at 17 in the country. UT is 18. Anyone know what the deal is there? Most other rankings have Baylor at 4th best in Texas, maybe 3rd. I suppose they're taking into consideration the brutal 'practice court' 3L thing that apparently is good practical training?




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests