ABA actually warns against law school

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johnnyutah
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby johnnyutah » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:42 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
mpj_3050 wrote:Make 60k per year if you didn't go to law school? Haha, you are lucky to get a 30k job with a B.A. and no experience. And 30k tuition? It better be an elite for that kind of cash.


Yea but three years of working instead of jerking off in the TTT library gets you that experience.

Funny, my 6 years of experience working entry-level service sector jobs never seemed to get me anywhere.


You have to be smart about it. You don't get any valuable experience being a barista, working at Borders or working in the warehouse.

Work in businesses that have room for internal growth, or advancement.

Maybe I was just dumb about it, but I utterly failed to get any job working in or for business after UG even though I submitted 100s of resumes. It might just be because my hometown is a serious good old boy's network, but it seemed like those kinds of jobs were just closed to most people even at the entry level.

edit: Even after I lowered my expectations and started applying to minimum wage stuff again after graduation, it took me like a month and a half to finally get hired at a gas station. It's just hard to find jobs, dude.
Last edited by johnnyutah on Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

09042014
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:43 pm

Hell even if you do work in fast food you can make decent money. A guy I went to high school with was managing a wendy's at 23. The guy isn't smart, but he does his job well.

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Grizz
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby Grizz » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:51 pm

HarlandBassett wrote:
bk1 wrote:
imbored25 wrote:calm down people the republicans will make it all better


I've got my mouth open, waiting for the wealth to trickle down.

it trickles down like a golden shower


I approve of this first post.

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paratactical
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby paratactical » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:59 pm

johnnyutah wrote:Maybe I was just dumb about it, but I utterly failed to get any job working in or for business after UG even though I submitted 100s of resumes. It might just be because my hometown is a serious good old boy's network, but it seemed like those kinds of jobs were just closed to most people even at the entry level.

I don't think just submitting resumes is ever the right way to go. I networked through volunteer work I was doing, met with staffing agencies, temped for weeks at several different companies, etc, etc to get my job.

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johnnyutah
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby johnnyutah » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:25 pm

paratactical wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:Maybe I was just dumb about it, but I utterly failed to get any job working in or for business after UG even though I submitted 100s of resumes. It might just be because my hometown is a serious good old boy's network, but it seemed like those kinds of jobs were just closed to most people even at the entry level.

I don't think just submitting resumes is ever the right way to go. I networked through volunteer work I was doing, met with staffing agencies, temped for weeks at several different companies, etc, etc to get my job.

Yeah, I'm sure you're right. I'm learning about the necessity of networking now trying to find a job as a 3L. I think my problem out of undergrad was just that I hadn't lived the kind of life that was setting me up for the kinds of jobs we're talking about. My friends were all unskilled, uneducated and employed in the kinds of entry-level service sector jobs I been working in, too, and none of knew successful people even socially. None of us were socially equipped to make a good impression on businesspeople or anyone like that, either. Things might have be different if I could do it over now with the (minimal) networking skills I have now having gone through law school.

r6_philly
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby r6_philly » Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:08 pm

johnnyutah wrote:Maybe I was just dumb about it, but I utterly failed to get any job working in or for business after UG even though I submitted 100s of resumes. It might just be because my hometown is a serious good old boy's network, but it seemed like those kinds of jobs were just closed to most people even at the entry level.

edit: Even after I lowered my expectations and started applying to minimum wage stuff again after graduation, it took me like a month and a half to finally get hired at a gas station. It's just hard to find jobs, dude.


If you paid me money to edit your resume, write your cover letters, train you how to interview, and prep you before you interviews, I guarantee you would have gotten at least 1 offer. It's about the packaging and how you sell it. This is a country where you can put rocks in a package and sell it as a pet. Come on.

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Holly Golightly
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby Holly Golightly » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:46 am

paratactical wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:Maybe I was just dumb about it, but I utterly failed to get any job working in or for business after UG even though I submitted 100s of resumes. It might just be because my hometown is a serious good old boy's network, but it seemed like those kinds of jobs were just closed to most people even at the entry level.

I don't think just submitting resumes is ever the right way to go. I networked through volunteer work I was doing, met with staffing agencies, temped for weeks at several different companies, etc, etc to get my job.

Also got my previous job through temping.

motiontodismiss
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby motiontodismiss » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:58 am

r6_philly wrote:You guys need viable backup plans.


McKinsey. Business School. Then more of the same mercenary stuff.

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FlanAl
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby FlanAl » Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:58 am

Nightrunner wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:Maybe I was just dumb about it, but I utterly failed to get any job working in or for business after UG even though I submitted 100s of resumes. It might just be because my hometown is a serious good old boy's network, but it seemed like those kinds of jobs were just closed to most people even at the entry level.

edit: Even after I lowered my expectations and started applying to minimum wage stuff again after graduation, it took me like a month and a half to finally get hired at a gas station. It's just hard to find jobs, dude.


If you paid me money to edit your resume, write your cover letters, train you how to interview, and prep you before you interviews, I guarantee you would have gotten at least 1 offer. It's about the packaging and how you sell it. This is a country where you can put rocks in a package and sell it as a pet. Come on.

That doesn't mean employers are hiring, dude. I sincerely doubt that the 15+ million unemployed people in this country just needed resume and interview coaching.


this and the fact that that number is about to get way higher now that the massive retail shopping season is over and all the holiday help will soon be let go

r6_philly
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby r6_philly » Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:51 am

Nightrunner wrote:That doesn't mean employers are hiring, dude. I sincerely doubt that the 15+ million unemployed people in this country just needed resume and interview coaching.


If there are 15 million unemployed people and only 5 million openings, you have to be top 1/3.

Employers are hiring, they are just not hiring everyone. Don't blow it out of proportion.

Many people get jobs. 3 positions are open in my 30 people strong office, we get over 100 resumes for each though. If yours stand out and you interview well, you will get the job. Blanketing employers with blah resumes and hoping they will pick you out of 100 is going to net you the impression that employers are not hiring. Oh and we hired at least 5 people in the last 6 months, me included. We are a newspaper so we aren't doing that great, but we are hiring.

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Patriot1208
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:46 am

motiontodismiss wrote:
r6_philly wrote:You guys need viable backup plans.


McKinsey. Business School. Then more of the same mercenary stuff.


I've seen you post this before, I'd be shocked if a 3.5 from NYU got you an interview with Mckinsey.

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icouldbuyu
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby icouldbuyu » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:53 am

Nightrunner wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:Maybe I was just dumb about it, but I utterly failed to get any job working in or for business after UG even though I submitted 100s of resumes. It might just be because my hometown is a serious good old boy's network, but it seemed like those kinds of jobs were just closed to most people even at the entry level.

edit: Even after I lowered my expectations and started applying to minimum wage stuff again after graduation, it took me like a month and a half to finally get hired at a gas station. It's just hard to find jobs, dude.


If you paid me money to edit your resume, write your cover letters, train you how to interview, and prep you before you interviews, I guarantee you would have gotten at least 1 offer. It's about the packaging and how you sell it. This is a country where you can put rocks in a package and sell it as a pet. Come on.

That doesn't mean employers are hiring, dude. I sincerely doubt that the 15+ million unemployed people in this country just needed resume and interview coaching.


But employers are hiring the right type of people. If you majored in French Literature, you're an idiot an brought unemployment upon yourself. I majored in accounting from an above average UG and had several offers lined up a year prior to graduation. I also had offers in IB operations lined up. Basically if you majored in some useless liberal arts major, go back to school and take finance/accounting courses since these positions are still in high demand.

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johnnyutah
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby johnnyutah » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:57 am

r6_philly wrote:Blanketing employers with blah resumes and hoping they will pick you out of 100 is going to net you the impression that employers are not hiring.

Sometimes your resume is blah because it's blah, man. There is only so much cool formatting and font selection can do for you. But regardless, I'm looking for legal jobs now, which I think is a whole different ballgame anyway :mrgreen:

r6_philly
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby r6_philly » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:57 am

icouldbuyu wrote:
But employers are hiring the right type of people. If you majored in French Literature, you're an idiot an brought unemployment upon yourself. I majored in accounting from an above average UG and had several offers lined up a year prior to graduation. I also had offers in IB operations lined up. Basically if you majored in some useless liberal arts major, go back to school and take finance/accounting courses since these positions are still in high demand.


Actually my paper is hiring 3 editorial staff writers. So even French Lit has a chance - the caveat is that you have to beat out the other 500 English/Lit/Journalism majors. That makes my original point valid, you have to stand out and beat out the competition, with a good resume, cover letter and eventually interviewing skills.

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Patriot1208
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:59 am

icouldbuyu wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:Maybe I was just dumb about it, but I utterly failed to get any job working in or for business after UG even though I submitted 100s of resumes. It might just be because my hometown is a serious good old boy's network, but it seemed like those kinds of jobs were just closed to most people even at the entry level.

edit: Even after I lowered my expectations and started applying to minimum wage stuff again after graduation, it took me like a month and a half to finally get hired at a gas station. It's just hard to find jobs, dude.


If you paid me money to edit your resume, write your cover letters, train you how to interview, and prep you before you interviews, I guarantee you would have gotten at least 1 offer. It's about the packaging and how you sell it. This is a country where you can put rocks in a package and sell it as a pet. Come on.

That doesn't mean employers are hiring, dude. I sincerely doubt that the 15+ million unemployed people in this country just needed resume and interview coaching.


But employers are hiring the right type of people. If you majored in French Literature, you're an idiot an brought unemployment upon yourself. I majored in accounting from an above average UG and had several offers lined up a year prior to graduation. I also had offers in IB operations lined up. Basically if you majored in some useless liberal arts major, go back to school and take finance/accounting courses since these positions are still in high demand.


This. Out of undergrad, for those that did their homework, it isn't that hard to find a job. Now, i'm not necessarily faulting the kids because there is a lot of misinformation out there. But, by your junior year, you should know what's going on. And, that is still early enough to make a change in major.

ClayDavis
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby ClayDavis » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:01 am

Desert Fox wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
mpj_3050 wrote:Make 60k per year if you didn't go to law school? Haha, you are lucky to get a 30k job with a B.A. and no experience. And 30k tuition? It better be an elite for that kind of cash.


Yea but three years of working instead of jerking off in the TTT library gets you that experience.

Funny, my 6 years of experience working entry-level service sector jobs never seemed to get me anywhere.


You have to be smart about it. You don't get any valuable experience being a barista, working at Borders or working in the warehouse.

Work in businesses that have room for internal growth, or advancement.

I think getting a TTT degree for someone with no experience or expertise isn't a terrible idea. But they shouldn't pay a lot for it, and they should graduate with as little debt as possible. But at most TTT's you are talking about graduating with 150K+ debt.

You are spectacularly wrong about this. I have a shit degree from an elite liberal arts college. Trust me, there are no "business" jobs out there for people like me. I've been trying for 2 years.

Edit: and have a decent (3.5+) GPA.
Last edited by ClayDavis on Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

r6_philly
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby r6_philly » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:01 am

johnnyutah wrote:
r6_philly wrote:Blanketing employers with blah resumes and hoping they will pick you out of 100 is going to net you the impression that employers are not hiring.

Sometimes your resume is blah because it's blah, man. There is only so much cool formatting and font selection can do for you. But regardless, I'm looking for legal jobs now, which I think is a whole different ballgame anyway :mrgreen:


I don't know enough to talk about legal hiring.

But for all general purpose hiring, you can make a blah resume standout from other blah resumes. Remember people with amazing resumes are probably all working and/or not applying to positions that people with blah resumes will apply for. Chances are you are competing against 100's of yous. So it actually doesn't take much to get ahead.

I used to be a tech consultant working on project based contracts, I have probably been to over 100 interviews, you get a sense of how to game the process after a while. It's like dating, exaggerate what your beauty and hide your shortcomings, and play hard to get.

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icouldbuyu
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby icouldbuyu » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:03 am

[/quote]
That doesn't mean employers are hiring, dude. I sincerely doubt that the 15+ million unemployed people in this country just needed resume and interview coaching.[/quote]

But employers are hiring the right type of people. If you majored in French Literature, you're an idiot an brought unemployment upon yourself. I majored in accounting from an above average UG and had several offers lined up a year prior to graduation. I also had offers in IB operations lined up. Basically if you majored in some useless liberal arts major, go back to school and take finance/accounting courses since these positions are still in high demand.[/quote]

This. Out of undergrad, for those that did their homework, it isn't that hard to find a job. Now, i'm not necessarily faulting the kids because there is a lot of misinformation out there. But, by your junior year, you should know what's going on. And, that is still early enough to make a change in major.[/quote]

Also the money is pretty good. If you stay your 5th year and get your CPA, you're looking at 70k starting plus bonus.

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paratactical
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby paratactical » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:03 am

ClayDavis wrote:You are spectacularly wrong about this. I have a shit degree from an elite liberal arts college. Trust me, there are no "business" jobs out there for people like me. I've been trying for 2 years.

< Art school. Gainfully employed in a large office. HTH

r6_philly
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby r6_philly » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:06 am

ClayDavis wrote:You are spectacularly wrong about this. I have a shit degree from an elite liberal arts college. Trust me, there are no "business" jobs out there for people like me. I've been trying for 2 years.


We hire sales people of all majors. If you are willing to do the work and be good at it, you can get any generic business jobs with any degree.

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johnnyutah
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby johnnyutah » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:07 am

r6_philly wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:
r6_philly wrote:Blanketing employers with blah resumes and hoping they will pick you out of 100 is going to net you the impression that employers are not hiring.

Sometimes your resume is blah because it's blah, man. There is only so much cool formatting and font selection can do for you. But regardless, I'm looking for legal jobs now, which I think is a whole different ballgame anyway :mrgreen:


I don't know enough to talk about legal hiring.

But for all general purpose hiring, you can make a blah resume standout from other blah resumes. Remember people with amazing resumes are probably all working and/or not applying to positions that people with blah resumes will apply for. Chances are you are competing against 100's of yous. So it actually doesn't take much to get ahead.

I used to be a tech consultant working on project based contracts, I have probably been to over 100 interviews, you get a sense of how to game the process after a while. It's like dating, exaggerate what your beauty and hide your shortcomings, and play hard to get.

So what do you do to a resume to make it awesome? I've had Career Services edit the shit out of mine already, and they say it's good, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything (Career Services does not always give good advice).

ClayDavis
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby ClayDavis » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:07 am

paratactical wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:You are spectacularly wrong about this. I have a shit degree from an elite liberal arts college. Trust me, there are no "business" jobs out there for people like me. I've been trying for 2 years.

< Art school. Gainfully employed in a large office. HTH

*Is unaware of the country's 9.5% unemployment* *Thinks exceptions prove the rule*

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Patriot1208
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:08 am

ClayDavis wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Yea but three years of working instead of jerking off in the TTT library gets you that experience.

Funny, my 6 years of experience working entry-level service sector jobs never seemed to get me anywhere.


You have to be smart about it. You don't get any valuable experience being a barista, working at Borders or working in the warehouse.

Work in businesses that have room for internal growth, or advancement.

I think getting a TTT degree for someone with no experience or expertise isn't a terrible idea. But they shouldn't pay a lot for it, and they should graduate with as little debt as possible. But at most TTT's you are talking about graduating with 150K+ debt.

You are spectacularly wrong about this. I have a shit degree from an elite liberal arts college. Trust me, there are no "business" jobs out there for people like me. I've been trying for 2 years.

Edit: and have a decent (3.5+) GPA.


Elite liberal arts college? I know plenty of bankers and consultants from the top LAC's. Swarthmore, amherst, harvey mudd, middlebury, and pomona all put grads into business jobs.

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Patriot1208
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:08 am

ClayDavis wrote:
paratactical wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:You are spectacularly wrong about this. I have a shit degree from an elite liberal arts college. Trust me, there are no "business" jobs out there for people like me. I've been trying for 2 years.

< Art school. Gainfully employed in a large office. HTH

*Is unaware of the country's 9.5% unemployment* *Thinks exceptions prove the rule*


9.5% doesn't make her the exception. And, she isn't.

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johnnyutah
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby johnnyutah » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:08 am

paratactical wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:You are spectacularly wrong about this. I have a shit degree from an elite liberal arts college. Trust me, there are no "business" jobs out there for people like me. I've been trying for 2 years.

< Art school. Gainfully employed in a large office. HTH

Yeah, but you got yours by knowing someone, right? Ol dude may not have any connections.




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