ABA actually warns against law school

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paratactical
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby paratactical » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:09 am

ClayDavis wrote:
paratactical wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:You are spectacularly wrong about this. I have a shit degree from an elite liberal arts college. Trust me, there are no "business" jobs out there for people like me. I've been trying for 2 years.

< Art school. Gainfully employed in a large office. HTH

*Is unaware of the country's 9.5% unemployment* *Thinks exceptions prove the rule*

You said there are "no" jobs. There are, at the very least, some.

johnnyutah wrote:
paratactical wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:You are spectacularly wrong about this. I have a shit degree from an elite liberal arts college. Trust me, there are no "business" jobs out there for people like me. I've been trying for 2 years.

< Art school. Gainfully employed in a large office. HTH

Yeah, but you got yours by knowing someone, right? Ol dude may not have any connections.


Nope. I got mine by working my ass off. I didn't know a soul in NYC when I went there.

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johnnyutah
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby johnnyutah » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:09 am

ClayDavis wrote:
paratactical wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:You are spectacularly wrong about this. I have a shit degree from an elite liberal arts college. Trust me, there are no "business" jobs out there for people like me. I've been trying for 2 years.

< Art school. Gainfully employed in a large office. HTH

*Is unaware of the country's 9.5% unemployment* *Thinks exceptions prove the rule*

You know that 9.5% unemployment means that most people are actually employed somehow? I mean, I know you and me couldn't find dick, but we are in the minority :mrgreen:

edit: sizeable minority, but still
Last edited by johnnyutah on Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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johnnyutah
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby johnnyutah » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:10 am

paratactical wrote:Nope. I got mine by working my ass off. I didn't know a soul in NYC when I went there.

So you just submitted resumes and ended up getting a business job? That's impressive.

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icouldbuyu
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby icouldbuyu » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:10 am

r6_philly wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:You are spectacularly wrong about this. I have a shit degree from an elite liberal arts college. Trust me, there are no "business" jobs out there for people like me. I've been trying for 2 years.


We hire sales people of all majors. If you are willing to do the work and be good at it, you can get any generic business jobs with any degree.


Now that I think of it, most of the ppl working in IB operations were liberal arts majors. You get stuck within operation and can't move into the front office without a finance background, but it still pays okay. Down the line, the IB even pays for your MBA, so thats a plus as well.

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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby ClayDavis » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:12 am

Patriot1208 wrote:Elite liberal arts college? I know plenty of bankers and consultants from the top LAC's. Swarthmore, amherst, harvey mudd, middlebury, and pomona all put grads into business jobs.

True, but not with my major. I'm not saying my major selection wasn't a huge mistake - it was - but my argument was about shit degrees.

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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby ClayDavis » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:13 am

Patriot1208 wrote:Elite liberal arts college? I know plenty of bankers and consultants from the top LAC's. Swarthmore, amherst, harvey mudd, middlebury, and pomona all put grads into business jobs.

Also: If you had any kind of decent "business" job, you wouldn't be considering law school... HTH

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paratactical
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby paratactical » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:14 am

johnnyutah wrote:
paratactical wrote:Nope. I got mine by working my ass off. I didn't know a soul in NYC when I went there.

So you just submitted resumes and ended up getting a business job? That's impressive.

Well, I got offered several jobs over the five months that I was looking for work in NYC. I did volunteer work and networked through the people I volunteered with. I made my wages temping while I was waiting to find the right job and got offered jobs through that. I ended up finally finding my job with the third hiring agency I worked through and I spent a year and a half making shitty money at the reception desk before I was promoted internally.

r6_philly
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby r6_philly » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:14 am

johnnyutah wrote:So what do you do to a resume to make it awesome? I've had Career Services edit the shit out of mine already, and they say it's good, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything (Career Services does not always give good advice).


You have to tailor each resume to the job you are applying for, and highlight certain aspect of your previous experiences and education to fit the objective you are writing for that job. A lot of employers look at candidate and don't look for brilliant/smart people, they look for people who would fit in and be comfortable from the get go. So you have to convince them that you have done the same job before by presenting what they are expecting to see. One of the easiest thing to do is only apply to jobs that have extensive listing of duties/requirements, then tailor your resume to cover/show as much as the duties/requirements as possible, then write a cover letter further outlining your experiences and how you are exactly the person they are searching for.

Of course I don't have quantitative data to support this, but if you use the most of the same words they use in the ad, I think you are already miles ahead. Most resume readers scan resumes on first read, so if you have the right keywords in there, it will more likely to be read.

I actually worked for a short time for a company that sells a scanner system that scans all paper resumes, OCRs them and index them for keyword searches like a search engine. So if your resume hits all the right words, you are likely to get indexed up front.

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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby r6_philly » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:15 am

ClayDavis wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:Elite liberal arts college? I know plenty of bankers and consultants from the top LAC's. Swarthmore, amherst, harvey mudd, middlebury, and pomona all put grads into business jobs.

Also: If you had any kind of decent "business" job, you wouldn't be considering law school... HTH


I make over 60k part-time. I am going to law school. HTH

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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:16 am

r6_philly wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:Elite liberal arts college? I know plenty of bankers and consultants from the top LAC's. Swarthmore, amherst, harvey mudd, middlebury, and pomona all put grads into business jobs.

Also: If you had any kind of decent "business" job, you wouldn't be considering law school... HTH


I make over 60k part-time. I am going to law school. HTH

There are A LOT of ex-consultants on these boards.

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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby ClayDavis » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:17 am

r6_philly wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:Elite liberal arts college? I know plenty of bankers and consultants from the top LAC's. Swarthmore, amherst, harvey mudd, middlebury, and pomona all put grads into business jobs.

Also: If you had any kind of decent "business" job, you wouldn't be considering law school... HTH


I make over 60k part-time. I am going to law school. HTH

Oh sorry, edit: If you had any kind of decent "business" job and a semblance of common sense, you wouldn't be considering law school... HTH

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icouldbuyu
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby icouldbuyu » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:17 am

ClayDavis wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:Elite liberal arts college? I know plenty of bankers and consultants from the top LAC's. Swarthmore, amherst, harvey mudd, middlebury, and pomona all put grads into business jobs.

Also: If you had any kind of decent "business" job, you wouldn't be considering law school... HTH


Why not? I had plenty of offers, which were more than decent, but I just didn't want them. I've wanted to be a lawyer for a long time, and figured and can always get those offers if law doesn't work. And the "a JD closes doors" line is bs. If you've worked in another industry or are at least qualified you'll have no problems getting a job. The reason why it seems like a JD closes doors is because many JD's have liberal arts backgrounds and so its harder for them to get another job to begin with.

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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby johnnyutah » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:18 am

paratactical wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:
paratactical wrote:Nope. I got mine by working my ass off. I didn't know a soul in NYC when I went there.

So you just submitted resumes and ended up getting a business job? That's impressive.

Well, I got offered several jobs over the five months that I was looking for work in NYC. I did volunteer work and networked through the people I volunteered with. I made my wages temping while I was waiting to find the right job and got offered jobs through that. I ended up finally finding my job with the third hiring agency I worked through and I spent a year and a half making shitty money at the reception desk before I was promoted internally.

Temp work is pretty good, for the record. I had a friend who temped after he finished his MBA program and made like 25k for a year or two temping and then networked his way to a for legit job making algorithms for something or another. I think temp work is a good way to go as a career starter (except in law - temping seems to be the kiss of death for becoming an associate).

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paratactical
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby paratactical » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:18 am

ClayDavis wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:Elite liberal arts college? I know plenty of bankers and consultants from the top LAC's. Swarthmore, amherst, harvey mudd, middlebury, and pomona all put grads into business jobs.

Also: If you had any kind of decent "business" job, you wouldn't be considering law school... HTH


I make over 60k part-time. I am going to law school. HTH

Oh sorry, edit: If you had any kind of decent "business" job and a semblance of common sense, you wouldn't be considering law school... HTH

Have you ever considered that your abrasive "zomg pls pity me" attitude might have more to do with your unemployment than your degree?

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johnnyutah
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby johnnyutah » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:19 am

ClayDavis wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:Elite liberal arts college? I know plenty of bankers and consultants from the top LAC's. Swarthmore, amherst, harvey mudd, middlebury, and pomona all put grads into business jobs.

Also: If you had any kind of decent "business" job, you wouldn't be considering law school... HTH

Some people actually want to be a lawyer and aren't in it solely for the salary...HTH

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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby ClayDavis » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:19 am

paratactical wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:
paratactical wrote:Nope. I got mine by working my ass off. I didn't know a soul in NYC when I went there.

So you just submitted resumes and ended up getting a business job? That's impressive.

Well, I got offered several jobs over the five months that I was looking for work in NYC. I did volunteer work and networked through the people I volunteered with. I made my wages temping while I was waiting to find the right job and got offered jobs through that. I ended up finally finding my job with the third hiring agency I worked through and I spent a year and a half making shitty money at the reception desk before I was promoted internally.

What do you currently do?

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paratactical
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby paratactical » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:20 am

.
Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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johnnyutah
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby johnnyutah » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:22 am

paratactical wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:Also: If you had any kind of decent "business" job, you wouldn't be considering law school... HTH


I make over 60k part-time. I am going to law school. HTH

Oh sorry, edit: If you had any kind of decent "business" job and a semblance of common sense, you wouldn't be considering law school... HTH

Have you ever considered that your abrasive "zomg pls pity me" attitude might have more to do with your unemployment than your degree?

Seriously. I get down on myself about job shit too (like half the law students graduating in 2011), but at least admit that your own struggles do not mean that the whole world is a terrible place for everyone.

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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby ClayDavis » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:22 am

paratactical wrote:Have you ever considered that your abrasive "zomg pls pity me" attitude might have more to do with your unemployment than your degree?

I'm not looking for pity at all. I just have trouble figuring out why people who have decent jobs want to go to LS ITE. The only reason I'm even considering LS is that I haven't been able to find a job that I'm happy with. And yes I was being abrasive - although so were you - and I'll stop now.

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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby johnnyutah » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:23 am

ClayDavis wrote:
paratactical wrote:Have you ever considered that your abrasive "zomg pls pity me" attitude might have more to do with your unemployment than your degree?

I'm not looking for pity at all. I just have trouble figuring out why people who have decent jobs want to go to LS ITE. The only reason I'm even considering LS is that I haven't been able to find a job that I'm happy with. And yes I was being abrasive - although so were you - and I'll stop now.

Where are you going to law school? If you're going for the sole reason that you need to find a job, talk to me first. Seriously, PM me.

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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby ClayDavis » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:24 am

paratactical wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:What do you currently do?

I'm a biglaw IP litigation paralegal.

Oh. Yea, I am too haha. Not that this is a terrible job; there just isn't any room for advancement. And having looked for other jobs with this on my resume, the first question people ask is, "well, why aren't you going to LS?" I have what I think are some pretty good reasons/explanations, but they haven't seemed to work yet.

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paratactical
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby paratactical » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:25 am

ClayDavis wrote:
paratactical wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:What do you currently do?

I'm a biglaw IP litigation paralegal.

Oh. Yea, I am too haha. Not that this is a terrible job; there just isn't any room for advancement. And having looked for other jobs with this on my resume, the first question people ask is, "well, why aren't you going to LS?" I have what I think are some pretty good reasons/explanations, but they haven't seemed to work yet.

I switched markets and went to a bigger firm recently and recieved a substantial raise. If you stick to it, there is definitely room to become a senior person and to make more money.

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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby ClayDavis » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:29 am

paratactical wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:
paratactical wrote:
ClayDavis wrote:What do you currently do?

I'm a biglaw IP litigation paralegal.

Oh. Yea, I am too haha. Not that this is a terrible job; there just isn't any room for advancement. And having looked for other jobs with this on my resume, the first question people ask is, "well, why aren't you going to LS?" I have what I think are some pretty good reasons/explanations, but they haven't seemed to work yet.

I switched markets and went to a bigger firm recently and recieved a substantial raise. If you stick to it, there is definitely room to become a senior person and to make more money.

You're right, it's just not what I want to do. I mean, I genuinely don't think I'd mind being a lawyer, but I just don't see any way LS provides a reasonable ROI ITE. Idk, I'm thinking about trying to go back for another Bachelor's (not in bullshit this time haha).

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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby r6_philly » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:30 am

ClayDavis wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I make over 60k part-time. I am going to law school. HTH

Oh sorry, edit: If you had any kind of decent "business" job and a semblance of common sense, you wouldn't be considering law school... HTH


With a JD I can probably parlay that into 300-500k 5 years after graduation. That would be a damn good investment. If not I can always get into management/leadership/CTO with my experience and legal background.

People who can land decent jobs have decent common/business sense. HTH

r6_philly
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Re: ABA actually warns against law school

Postby r6_philly » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:31 am

ClayDavis wrote:You're right, it's just not what I want to do. I mean, I genuinely don't think I'd mind being a lawyer, but I just don't see any way LS provides a reasonable ROI ITE. Idk, I'm thinking about trying to go back for another Bachelor's (not in bullshit this time haha).


Don't take it too personally, but you should probably not use yourself as a judge of ROI on education based on what you have said/chosen.




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