Top International Specialty Law US News

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shanem
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Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby shanem » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:53 pm

According to the US News & World Report free edition, these are the top 10 schools for International specialty Law

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... tional-law

1. NYU
2. Columbia
3. Georgetown
4. Harvard
5. Yale
6. George Washington
6. Michigan
8. American
9. Virginia
10. Duke

Does anyone have access to the paid edition that has the rest of the schools on this list #11-#17? Thank you!

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Lawquacious
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby Lawquacious » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:57 pm

shanem wrote:According to the US News & World Report free edition, these are the top 10 schools for International specialty Law

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... tional-law

1. NYU
2. Columbia
3. Georgetown
4. Harvard
5. Yale
6. George Washington
6. Michigan
8. American
9. Virginia
10. Duke

Does anyone have access to the paid edition that has the rest of the schools on this list #11-#17? Thank you!


I thought I did because I paid for the actual hardcopy magazine with rankings earlier this year while I was at an airport, but the hardcopy just goes 1-10. It seems to me that the specialty rankings are generally only considered to include 1-10, but I guess the rest gives an idea of the schools that almost made the cut (for the hardcopy anyway).

shanem
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby shanem » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:08 am

Thanks. Anyone have the online version?

SageD
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby SageD » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:46 am

I'm really interested in international law, though everyone says it's not a realistic career choice. Which is why I have to ask: when people say such things, are they referring mostly to the people expecting to work for the UN at the Hague, or do the warnings extend equally for those of us who would be interested by work with trade and ROO law and tariffs on shipments of apples and international contracts and shit like that?

I mean, my dream would be landing a job with the DoJ, and maybe in the future becoming an FSO, or working in PI on asylum or some such thing, but obviously I'm not counting on that, and I'm highly flexible. But, still, this is essentially the major reason NYU is my dream school.

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kalvano
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby kalvano » Thu Dec 30, 2010 11:23 am


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nealric
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby nealric » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:44 pm

Those rankings are basically meaningless in terms of actual ability to get a job in the field (which is the only thing that really matters).

or do the warnings extend equally for those of us who would be interested by work with trade and ROO law and tariffs on shipments of apples and international contracts and shit like that?

I mean, my dream would be landing a job with the DoJ, and maybe in the future becoming an FSO, or working in PI on asylum or some such thing, but obviously I'm not counting on that, and I'm highly flexible. But, still, this is essentially the major reason NYU is my dream school.


No, even stuff like trade can be a very tough nut to crack. There are a limited number of people who make a living doing that kind of stuff, and an even more limited number of openings for know-nothing noobs (which you will be after law school no matter which classes you take and no matter which school you attend).

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Grizz
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby Grizz » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:00 pm

kalvano wrote:http://www.annaivey.com/iveyfiles/2008/11/international_law_believe_the_hype


Came ITT to post this.

My own experience basically is in line with this article. One family member expressed that she was hurt during interviews by her study abroad and international focus. She got an LLM and now does international tax without ever leaving the country or her secondary market, generally.

buchy2009
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby buchy2009 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:48 pm

Do y'all think this applies if you want to practice solely abroad?

I was interested in the transnational law program at Wash. U because I want to practice in Europe. They offer a LLM at a European university and JD from WU.

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Grizz
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby Grizz » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:58 pm

buchy2009 wrote:Do y'all think this applies if you want to practice solely abroad?

I was interested in the transnational law program at Wash. U because I want to practice in Europe. They offer a LLM at a European university and JD from WU.


US firms or foreign firms? If a US firm with an abroad office, they're not gonna hire you for your knowledge of foreign law. Foreign clients hire US firms because of their expertise in US law. If you want to practice foreign law, why get a Wash U. JD at all?

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nealric
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby nealric » Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:40 pm

She got an LLM and now does international tax without ever leaving the country or her secondary market, generally.


Right, because international tax is US law as applied to international transactions.

buchy2009
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby buchy2009 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 5:39 pm

rad law wrote:
buchy2009 wrote:Do y'all think this applies if you want to practice solely abroad?

I was interested in the transnational law program at Wash. U because I want to practice in Europe. They offer a LLM at a European university and JD from WU.


US firms or foreign firms? If a US firm with an abroad office, they're not gonna hire you for your knowledge of foreign law. Foreign clients hire US firms because of their expertise in US law. If you want to practice foreign law, why get a Wash U. JD at all?


Hmm, good point. Thanks for your perspective.

MrAnon
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby MrAnon » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:06 pm

As many have alluded to, and as the admissions expert delves right into, International Law is a crock sold by law schools to students to reel them on in with dreams of jumping from country to country and appearing in front of the Hague. In reality a few students from the best schools (top 3 on the list realistically) get to do this for a career. But every school out there seems to send 4 students to the Rwandan genocide court for 1L summer. How that helps them when they are proofreading a brief for a biglaw firm or filing cookie cutter motions for a shitlaw firm will forever escape me. Just because students spend the semester abroad does not mean the school has any particular expertise in international law. Every school under the sun has those programs from law school to business to culinary. Its a nice little profit maker for the host school, who gets to sell its own international semester abroad program in the U.S. to its own foreign students.

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chris0805
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby chris0805 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:04 pm

MrAnon wrote:As many have alluded to, and as the admissions expert delves right into, International Law is a crock sold by law schools to students to reel them on in with dreams of jumping from country to country and appearing in front of the Hague. In reality a few students from the best schools (top 3 on the list realistically) get to do this for a career. But every school out there seems to send 4 students to the Rwandan genocide court for 1L summer. How that helps them when they are proofreading a brief for a biglaw firm or filing cookie cutter motions for a shitlaw firm will forever escape me. Just because students spend the semester abroad does not mean the school has any particular expertise in international law. Every school under the sun has those programs from law school to business to culinary. Its a nice little profit maker for the host school, who gets to sell its own international semester abroad program in the U.S. to its own foreign students.


International law at most schools might be a crock, but it's not nearly as big of a crock as Anna Ivey, who's admission advice is either something that everyone knows or something that can be ignored.

I can only speak from the experience at a T6, but international law does indeed exist. Entry positions outside fellowships are nearly non-existent. Jobs often pay lower than other public interest positions, and a lot of the work is often "non-legal," even if they do hire (or even prefer) JDs. I know plenty of people having meaningful careers in international human rights law, and imagine there also people on the international business side (though I know much less about that side).

I would say don't go to law school if you would be unhappy working as a lawyer on purely domestic issues. International law can be a total crapshoot, even from a T10 school, but it's still not non-existent either.

Oh, P.S. Don't use specialty rankings except between similarly ranked schools. For example, do go to NYU over Chicago if you're dream is to do international law. DO NOT go to GW over Chicago for the same reason.

Black-Blue
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby Black-Blue » Fri Dec 31, 2010 4:59 pm

MrAnon wrote:As many have alluded to, and as the admissions expert delves right into, International Law is a crock sold by law schools to students to reel them on in with dreams of jumping from country to country and appearing in front of the Hague. In reality a few students from the best schools (top 3 on the list realistically) get to do this for a career. But every school out there seems to send 4 students to the Rwandan genocide court for 1L summer. How that helps them when they are proofreading a brief for a biglaw firm or filing cookie cutter motions for a shitlaw firm will forever escape me. Just because students spend the semester abroad does not mean the school has any particular expertise in international law. Every school under the sun has those programs from law school to business to culinary. Its a nice little profit maker for the host school, who gets to sell its own international semester abroad program in the U.S. to its own foreign students.

However, not as much as a crock as interplanetary law.

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Shaggier1
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby Shaggier1 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 10:17 am

Oh, P.S. Don't use specialty rankings except between similarly ranked schools. For example, do go to NYU over Chicago if you're dream is to do international law. DO NOT go to GW over Chicago for the same reason.


Well said.

MrAnon
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby MrAnon » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:30 pm

international law does indeed exist. Entry positions outside fellowships are nearly non-existent.


Huh? So, there are barely any jobs?

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chris0805
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby chris0805 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:39 pm

MrAnon wrote:
international law does indeed exist. Entry positions outside fellowships are nearly non-existent.


Huh? So, there are barely any jobs?


There are barely any jobs for those who are coming right of law school, outside of fellowships. If you secure a fellowship (often sponsored by the law school. I know CLS has a few), you get a couple years experience and, then, there are jobs that you for which you might be qualified. But yes, there are barely any entry level jobs... barely any jobs for new graduates, however, does not equal "OMGz this field doesn't exist." Rather, it means its very difficult to break into.

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worldtraveler
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby worldtraveler » Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:48 pm

chris0805 wrote:
MrAnon wrote:
international law does indeed exist. Entry positions outside fellowships are nearly non-existent.


Huh? So, there are barely any jobs?


There are barely any jobs for those who are coming right of law school, outside of fellowships. If you secure a fellowship (often sponsored by the law school. I know CLS has a few), you get a couple years experience and, then, there are jobs that you for which you might be qualified. But yes, there are barely any entry level jobs... barely any jobs for new graduates, however, does not equal "OMGz this field doesn't exist." Rather, it means its very difficult to break into.


As Chris said already, a lot of these jobs are also non-legal or quasi-legal in nature. If your goal is to work for Human Rights Watch then you could do law school or a grad program. The important thing is the connections you get while getting your degree.

MrAnon
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby MrAnon » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:08 pm

The best path to success in international whatever is to be able to competently handle the work directly out of undergrad. The most plum assignments at 30 go to those dynamic individuals who can hack the work at a young age. If you have to spend 1 year preparing to go to law school, 3 years in law school, 2 more years at a fellowship, and an additional year working on the bar, you are about as bland as they come. Basically just good at working your way through school. Meanwhile the competition has been cutting his/her teeth in the field for 6 years by the time you are ready to enter the workforce.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Top International Specialty Law US News

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:27 pm

I don't understand why everyone says there is not an "international job" market. While true the international legal jobs I'm referring to do not involve leaving the US, they are international in that they involve foreign investment either by another country/business into the US or by a business/individual into a foreign country (international finance/business transactions). I'm sure that there are more types of international jobs, but these jobs seem to be the more prominent variety.

However, I will agree that people that want to specialize in international law to work overseas have no idea what they are talking about and should just get their JD/LLB/etc. overseas (in the country they want to practice in). Basically there are jobs in the US that can utilize a international specialty, but don't bother if you are only specializing so that you can practice overseas. Your clients may end up being from overseas, but they are generally only interested in how they can invest money into the US (and the barriers/risks involved) and not in how you can explain to them how the laws in their country work.




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