Stanford v. UVA

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DaveBear07
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby DaveBear07 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:02 pm

As someone who is also trying to balance which Law School to go to with concern for my SO of 3 years, I say if you get substantial aid at UVA, go there.

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jackattack17
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby jackattack17 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:05 pm

To kind of play the devil's advocate here with the SO dilemma, if you guys can make it through 3 years being on opposite coasts, you can make it through just about anything, and that might factor into choosing Stanford. Easier said than done though.

I agree with others who have recommended waiting until the exact aid info comes out. Other things being equal (my econ background talking), I'd take Stanford unless UVA offers at least a half scholarship. UVA's a tremendous school, but not in the same ballpark (maybe not even the same league). Your east coast ties will serve you well, and you don't need UVA for that.

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AreJay711
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby AreJay711 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:07 pm

kak5n wrote:
Sorry, but dont kid yourself. That will be a very hard 3 years for you and even more for him. You will be about as far away as you can get from one another.

21 is not that young, there are many 21/22 year olds that are married and in Law/Med school. And honestly if you have been together for over 3 years, you are that old, and your not even thinking about considering marriage, then yea take Stanford so you dont always wonder "what if"


True, we are not that young-22 is a relatively normal age to get engaged..and I would prefer to be engaged before grad school, but it's sort of out of my hands as the girl :-P (anti-feminist much? :-P). We have pretty much concluded that we are going to get married but not for another three or four years, as we both think it makes no sense to get married when we are still dependent on our parents. So, if I went to Stanford and we broke up, I would be thinking "what if" about the relationship and UVA. So... back to square one.

Anyways, I guess I will just wait for the financial aid offers to make sure I have all the information in my hands before making a decision.

P.S. Thank you all for the discussion.. it's good to talk to people who have a more distant perspective!


I know it's in proper form to not actually have an opinion to this type of question but my real advice, besides marrying a future doctor, would be to go to UVA. Job prospects would be better at Stanford but UVA will be able to get you a great job too and it would give you the best chances for your relationship. It also depends on your relationship. If it causes stress (like if one of you is needy and can live without the other's constant attention) then it won't matter either way. However, your relationship may alleviate stress and make it easier for you if you two can stand not to be the center of each other's world. I'm a 0L so that is more general advice than as someone who has managed a relationship in law school.

uvahooo
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby uvahooo » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:11 pm

I would go with stanford.

I dated my SO four longer than you have throughout undergrad and we broke up in the middle of last semester.

BTW: we both went to the same ivy undergrad and he was at MIT for engineering. Which, is as hard as med school/law school.

You never really know. Do what is safest for yourself. If you break up (which I didn't think we would break up... but law school is VERY different from undergrad... and we did spend summers apart also). You don't want to kick yourself if things don't work out. Do what's best for yourself.

005618502
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby 005618502 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:13 pm

kak5n wrote:Sorry, but dont kid yourself. That will be a very hard 3 years for you and even more for him. You will be about as far away as you can get from one another.

21 is not that young, there are many 21/22 year olds that are married and in Law/Med school. And honestly if you have been together for over 3 years, you are that old, and your not even thinking about considering marriage, then yea take Stanford so you dont always wonder "what if"


True, we are not that young-22 is a relatively normal age to get engaged..and I would prefer to be engaged before grad school, but it's sort of out of my hands as the girl :-P (anti-feminist much? :-P). We have pretty much concluded that we are going to get married but not for another three or four years, as we both think it makes no sense to get married when we are still dependent on our parents. So, if I went to Stanford and we broke up, I would be thinking "what if" about the relationship and UVA. So... back to square one.

Anyways, I guess I will just wait for the financial aid offers to make sure I have all the information in my hands before making a decision.

P.S. Thank you all for the discussion.. it's good to talk to people who have a more distant perspective![/quote]

I wish my GF would be as rational as you, she doesnt want to wait till after and I do lol.

Anyways either school is a good decision. The one thing i will say is that if you go to Stanford maintaining the relationship will be very difficult. But it is a great school and a great opportunity...then again so is UVA, sorry im no help :p

005618502
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby 005618502 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:14 pm

uvahooo wrote:I would go with stanford.

I dated my SO four longer than you have throughout undergrad and we broke up in the middle of last semester.

BTW: we both went to the same ivy undergrad and he was at MIT for engineering. Which, is as hard as med school/law school.

You never really know. Do what is safest for yourself. If you break up (which I didn't think we would break up... but law school is VERY different from undergrad... and we did spend summers apart also). You don't want to kick yourself if things don't work out. Do what's best for yourself.


... this doesnt make sense to me. Sounds like you guys broke up because you went to different schools.... which OP doesnt want.

uvahooo
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby uvahooo » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:19 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
uvahooo wrote:I would go with stanford.

I dated my SO four longer than you have throughout undergrad and we broke up in the middle of last semester.

BTW: we both went to the same ivy undergrad and he was at MIT for engineering. Which, is as hard as med school/law school.

You never really know. Do what is safest for yourself. If you break up (which I didn't think we would break up... but law school is VERY different from undergrad... and we did spend summers apart also). You don't want to kick yourself if things don't work out. Do what's best for yourself.


... this doesnt make sense to me. Sounds like you guys broke up because you went to different schools.... which OP doesnt want.


No, I obviously didn't get into Harvard (which is next to MIT). It was mainly dealing with a new environment and it was a different sort of stress. Law school+engineering+stress of school=breakup. Before law school, I was sure we would be engaged-but it didn't work out that way.

Always do what is best for yourself. Stanford will open a lot more doors than UVA. Hands down. Don't make decisions on emotions.

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quakeroats
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby quakeroats » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:23 pm

If you can get into Stanford you can get into several others schools that aren't UVA. You don't have to make a decision for a few months. Why not use the time to apply elsewhere, leverage aid packages and acceptances, see what others schools might better fit your needs, etc.? I can think of a school just south of UVA that might suit both your and your SO's needs.

09042014
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby 09042014 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:26 pm

Stanford is the best law school to go to. Yale like job prospects with UVA like LSAT median.

005618502
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby 005618502 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:26 pm

quakeroats wrote:If you can get into Stanford you can get into several others schools that aren't UVA. You don't have to make a decision for a few months. Why not use the time to apply elsewhere, leverage aid packages and acceptances, see what others schools might better fit your needs, etc.? I can think of a school just south of UVA that might suit both your and your SO's needs.


Do you mean Duke?? or..... because that would be worse for her as she has already gotten into UVA (UVA>Duke) and so has her SO

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BruceWayne
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby BruceWayne » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:30 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Stanford is the best law school to go to. Yale like job prospects with UVA like LSAT median.


LMAO! I hope this is sarcasm--if not you're putting waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much emphasis on the LSAT.

09042014
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby 09042014 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:44 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Stanford is the best law school to go to. Yale like job prospects with UVA like LSAT median.


LMAO! I hope this is sarcasm--if not you're putting waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much emphasis on the LSAT.


GPA median is almost identical too.

Of course the LSAT isn't a perfect predictor, but that works both ways. The students don't get better just because they walked into Stanford.

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quakeroats
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby quakeroats » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:07 pm

AssumptionRequired wrote:
quakeroats wrote:If you can get into Stanford you can get into several others schools that aren't UVA. You don't have to make a decision for a few months. Why not use the time to apply elsewhere, leverage aid packages and acceptances, see what others schools might better fit your needs, etc.? I can think of a school just south of UVA that might suit both your and your SO's needs.


Do you mean Duke?? or..... because that would be worse for her as she has already gotten into UVA (UVA>Duke) and so has her SO


I did mean Duke. I assume by worse you're referring to USNWR. I've discussed UVA v. Duke as it related to law enough. Feel free to look at my prior posts for the details, but as for conclusions: Duke outperforms UVA in NYC and D.C. hiring at top firms and AIII clerkships. I haven't spent much (read: any) time comparing medical schools, but Duke is ranked higher than both Stanford and UVA by USNWR. Perhaps that counts for more than it does in law school rankings, but in any case, it's closer to home than California and we tend to offer generous scholarships.

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vissidarte27
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby vissidarte27 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:10 pm

I vote for UVA, hands down.

There is more to life than work and more to a law school decision than job prospects. It's not like UVA is Cooley. You'll get a job, probably a very good one, and you'll be able to maintain your relationship. Maybe you'd make more money with a Stanford degree or maybe you'd have more prestige but, at least for me, being with the person I love trumps all of that.

Have you asked your SO? What does he think?

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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby 005618502 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:25 pm

quakeroats wrote:
AssumptionRequired wrote:
quakeroats wrote:If you can get into Stanford you can get into several others schools that aren't UVA. You don't have to make a decision for a few months. Why not use the time to apply elsewhere, leverage aid packages and acceptances, see what others schools might better fit your needs, etc.? I can think of a school just south of UVA that might suit both your and your SO's needs.


Do you mean Duke?? or..... because that would be worse for her as she has already gotten into UVA (UVA>Duke) and so has her SO


I did mean Duke. I assume by worse you're referring to USNWR. I've discussed UVA v. Duke as it related to law enough. Feel free to look at my prior posts for the details, but as for conclusions: Duke outperforms UVA in NYC and D.C. hiring at top firms and AIII clerkships. I haven't spent much (read: any) time comparing medical schools, but Duke is ranked higher than both Stanford and UVA by USNWR. Perhaps that counts for more than it does in law school rankings, but in any case, it's closer to home than California and we tend to offer generous scholarships.


Haha Duke troll.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

Thats the only number that matters for me, and its not even close. I couldnt care less about clerkship/academia. Anyways MOST people not at duke know UVA>Duke (yes even the rankings). Anyways, she said her SO is most likely going to med school at UVA, Duke was never mentioned. Duke Med is T6, UVA T25. Thats doesnt even seem close. But from what i have heard, it doesnt matter THAT much where you go to med school, all that matters is where you get your residency.

Then again its just like a dukie to try to throw their name in the pot. :)

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BruceWayne
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby BruceWayne » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:26 pm

Desert Fox wrote:GPA median is almost identical too.

Of course the LSAT isn't a perfect predictor, but that works both ways. The students don't get better just because they walked into Stanford.


I completely agree; that's why I'm saying one shouldn't factor that into deciding amongst HYS.

quakeroats wrote:I did mean Duke. I assume by worse you're referring to USNWR. I've discussed UVA v. Duke as it related to law enough. Feel free to look at my prior posts for the details, but as for conclusions: Duke outperforms UVA in NYC and D.C. hiring at top firms and AIII clerkships. I haven't spent much (read: any) time comparing medical schools, but Duke is ranked higher than both Stanford and UVA by USNWR. Perhaps that counts for more than it does in law school rankings, but in any case, it's closer to home than California and we tend to offer generous scholarships.


Look, firms aren't going deeper into Duke's class than they are at UVA. Plus, Duke doesn't do as well as UVA for federal clerkships and government jobs--although that's not a big deal.

09042014
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby 09042014 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:44 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:GPA median is almost identical too.

Of course the LSAT isn't a perfect predictor, but that works both ways. The students don't get better just because they walked into Stanford.


I completely agree; that's why I'm saying one shouldn't factor that into deciding amongst HYS.



It's inaccurate for one person, fairly accurate for 250 people.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby BruceWayne » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:47 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:GPA median is almost identical too.

Of course the LSAT isn't a perfect predictor, but that works both ways. The students don't get better just because they walked into Stanford.


I completely agree; that's why I'm saying one shouldn't factor that into deciding amongst HYS.



It's inaccurate for one person, fairly accurate for 250 people.


People throw this around a lot as if there isn't actual data on it. LSAC has done the research, and the correlation is relevant but not anywhere near as high as you're making it out to be. Essentially, it's the best data that they have, but it's not a good predictor. I believe it's .35 or something in that area.

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quakeroats
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby quakeroats » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:49 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
quakeroats wrote:I did mean Duke. I assume by worse you're referring to USNWR. I've discussed UVA v. Duke as it related to law enough. Feel free to look at my prior posts for the details, but as for conclusions: Duke outperforms UVA in NYC and D.C. hiring at top firms and AIII clerkships. I haven't spent much (read: any) time comparing medical schools, but Duke is ranked higher than both Stanford and UVA by USNWR. Perhaps that counts for more than it does in law school rankings, but in any case, it's closer to home than California and we tend to offer generous scholarships.


Look, firms aren't going deeper into Duke's class than they are at UVA. Plus, Duke doesn't do as well as UVA for federal clerkships and government jobs--although that's not a big deal.


Yes they are, and yes Duke does better on clerkships as a whole and Article III clerkships:

http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog ... news-.html

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AreJay711
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby AreJay711 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:52 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
BruceWayne wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:GPA median is almost identical too.

Of course the LSAT isn't a perfect predictor, but that works both ways. The students don't get better just because they walked into Stanford.


I completely agree; that's why I'm saying one shouldn't factor that into deciding amongst HYS.



It's inaccurate for one person, fairly accurate for 250 people.


People throw this around a lot as if there isn't actual data on it. LSAC has done the research, and the correlation is relevant but not anywhere near as high as you're making it out to be. Essentially, it's the best data that they have, but it's not a good predictor. I believe it's .35 or something in that area.


Also, it isn't important if the school is systematically choosing people with some other quality over lsat. I think Berkeley, Stanford, and, with their emphasis on WE, Northwestern fall into this category. I'm sure if Stanford wanted to they could have a higher lsat.

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vissidarte27
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby vissidarte27 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:52 pm

Uh. When did a discussion about UVA v. Stanford become about Duke...?

09042014
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby 09042014 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:53 pm

vissidarte27 wrote:Uh. When did a discussion about UVA v. Stanford become about Duke...?


Duke troll came in and for some inexplicable reason decided the solution to UVA v Stanford were the girls boyfriend was at UVA was Duke.

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quakeroats
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby quakeroats » Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:54 pm

vissidarte27 wrote:Uh. When did a discussion about UVA v. Stanford become about Duke...?


About an hour and a half ago

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chup
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby chup » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:02 pm

vissidarte27 wrote:Uh. When did a discussion about UVA v. Stanford become about Duke...?

*COUGH*

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DaveBear07
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Re: Stanford v. UVA

Postby DaveBear07 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:02 pm

vissidarte27 wrote:I vote for UVA, hands down.

There is more to life than work and more to a law school decision than job prospects. It's not like UVA is Cooley. You'll get a job, probably a very good one, and you'll be able to maintain your relationship. Maybe you'd make more money with a Stanford degree or maybe you'd have more prestige but, at least for me, being with the person I love trumps all of that.

Have you asked your SO? What does he think?


To get back on topic, I have quoted this, in part because I agree with it as well.

Relationships such as these are, in my opinion, sometimes about sacrifice. Sure, the love of your life would never ask you, or at least not eagerly, to sacrifice a cherished opportunity for them. However, the fact that you are unsure, and that your sacrifice is UVA, an amazing school, seems to me to warrant a leap of faith.

Your relationship could be the foundation for the rest of your lives and a source of strength for you both during med and law school. And to those emphasizing the Tier 1 job opportunities that would await you, I would answer with the heart has reason which reason knows not. In other words, this is a personal decision, and a matter of the heart between you and your SO. If ya'll could handle it, and are committed to sticking it out, then Stanford it is. But if there are doubts, who are we to say the "what if" regarding Stanford is worse than the "what if" regarding him?


My $.02. Plus, Charlottesville is where DMB is from.

Edited some grammer and spelling.
Last edited by DaveBear07 on Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.




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