ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

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Run!
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby Run! » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:59 pm

I attend school in NYC and Cooper Union has very average prestige here.

Edit: bump.

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ndirish2010
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:27 pm

LOL at this thread. In the midwest, nobody has ever heard of the NESCAC schools. Doesn't make them bad.

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:34 pm

megaTTTron wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:wayne you are such a silly little man. none of this stuff works out for you does it? And I dont know what island you are are from to come up with that list.

But I'll play:
Florida State/Uflorida
Cornell
Georgetown
UCLA

Penn State
I guess big state schools that are good in sports, generally.


dear god. COME on. "great name rec but bad law schools"? gtfo.

Necro reply, but Florida State's law school is considerably more reputable than its UG. This list was just godawful.

WSJ_Law
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby WSJ_Law » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:37 pm

Idiot thread.

Idiot post from sophia_whatever

Cooper Union is a festering slimy disgusting UG TTT in sharp decline. Whoever posted about that sewer bachelor's mill is either a huge homer or trolling hard. Like 2 trolls 1 thread hard.

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ndirish2010
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:48 pm

WSJ_Law wrote:Idiot thread.

Idiot post from sophia_whatever

Cooper Union is a festering slimy disgusting UG TTT in sharp decline. Whoever posted about that sewer bachelor's mill is either a huge homer or trolling hard. Like 2 trolls 1 thread hard.


Not really sure about that last part. It's held in fairly high regard among people I know.

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robotclubmember
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby robotclubmember » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:48 pm

snowpeach06 wrote:
bigkahuna2020 wrote:Case Western isn't a bad law school. Cleveland HAS a legal market, and it isn't one a lot of people shoot for in other cities. That being said, outside of the midwest, Case Western has barely any name recognition, except for the people who know about the biological sciences

Yeah, no one on the east coast has ever heard of it. But everyone in any science or engineering field has.

robotclubmember wrote:I live in Cleveland, so I'll scoop on Case Western a bit since I have some friends that go or have gone.

First of all, great place to pick up women. I did not go to CWRU but I've dated four girls that went there in the last two years (only one from the law school though). This is because the men are all gunners, Asians who can't get their noses out of books (re: undergrad, haven't seen many Asians in CWRU law) or just flat-out nerds. The women are desperate. Everytime I go to the CWRU law school to study or whatever I see at least one asshole with a bow-tie. It's awful. Only black muslims look legit in bow ties, and that's a fact. GTFO Tucker Carlson wannabes.

That said, I often here complaints about CWRU's career services office. Cleveland's been hit hard, we're basically the next Detroit, so in this legal market, most decent firms with offices here (Thompson & Hine, Baker Hostetler, etc) will only look at you if you are in the top 10% of the class @ Case. That's their cutoff and it's explicitly known. But a pretty significant chunk of the top 10% of CWRU usually transfers out. So almost no one that actually goes to Case can apply to those jobs, because career services office does not adjust the top 10% for students that have left.

It's sad that anecdotal evidence is among the best form of evidence of a non T14 law school's performance in career placement. But it's true, because their surveys are tragically flawed (working at Subway counts as being employed in their statistics! But they conveniently discriminate salary data so that Subway doesn't count as "private" or "public", therefore not tainting their salary statistics, lol). So, anecdotally, we had a CWRU law grad applying for a job at my firm (accounting), actually for consulting work, not tax. My partner is kind of a snob, lol, so he pried and asked the interviewee how many of the people in his class had found jobs (this was about 6 months after graduation, and the interviewee had obv not found a job yet). He said he thinks around 10%. Now, I think that might be a little low even for Case based on what I've heard from students that currently go there, but I don't think that that estimate is out of the ballpark either. They can only find unpaid internships generally and work their guts out. The one guy I know who got a good job after graduating was connected anyway, he could have gone to any school and his dad would have gotten him a job and had his cronies putting their jackets into puddles at street crosswalks for the kid.

That said, I'm not sure CWRU really has a great reputation.

Can't comment on the other schools, just thought I'd share what I do know.

To comment as an actual Case undergrad/law student... true story about the pathetic undergrad men. Also true, we have this one kid nicknamed bow-tie-boy. He thinks he's the coolest... almost no one likes him. And his nickname is widely known.

However, I think everything else you've said isn't as correct. Our CSO is great, and are really pushing to expand Case's reach. I don't know many 3L's, but, I do know a fair number of 2L's and they all have great summer jobs lined up. Jones Day in Cleveland hires tons and tons of case grads as well.

Anyway, Case undergrad and Case law are similarly ranked. There isn't really any discrepancy there. And I wasn't aware that Villanova or Richmond were that good of schools. But, for any school to have a T3 - I suppose its surprising.


I have no clue why this thread got necromanced. But I did want to point this out:

http://www.jonesdaycareers.com/files/Up ... 20List.DOC

Jones Day in Cleveland does not hire "tons and tons of case grads," unless by "tons and tons" you mean "one, nationwide." Which bodes poorly for Case, since Jones Day is the largest firm in the Cleveland market and best-paying by a mile, making it really the best shot at big law for Case grads.

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rinkrat19
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby rinkrat19 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:26 pm

iWayneState wrote:Here are a list of schools that I would come to think would have pretty good law schools but seem to be under performing and are ranked lower than I would expect.

-------------
1. Case Western Reserve
2. Villanova
3. Richmond
4. Michigan State
5. Tulane


I am interested in others thoughts on this list.

For me the most surprising is Case Western due to their UG rep and WashU being ranked so highly.

I think we have very different defintions of 'great name recognition,' because I'd barely heard of any of those schools out here on the west coast. Especially Case, which sounds like an online culinary school or something.

ETA: ugh, sorry, didn't mean to contribute to thread necromancy. I didn't check the dates.

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ndirish2010
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby ndirish2010 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 5:44 pm

Case has good name recognition in the hard sciences for sure.

fogcue2
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby fogcue2 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:58 am

I grew up as a military brat and have lived in almost every region in the US for at least a couple of years.

IMO for UG lay prestige (I realize that I'm leaving out Cooper Union, Julliard, and maybe even some engineering schools like RPI, but unless you are an engineer or in the arts...most people haven't heard of them)

Group 1 -Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford (Everyone has heard of them, used in TV and movies to designate smart people)

Group 2-Columbia, Chicago, Northwestern, Duke, CalTech, Dartmouth, Brown, Penn, Cal (Berk.), Georgetown
(Everyone who is educated has heard of them, though some hicks maybe not)

Group 3-Cornell, John Hopkins,Vandy, Notre Dame, USC, Emory, Carnagie Mellon, UCLA, UVA, Mich, BC, NYU, UT, West Point, Naval Acadamy (Educated people around the nation have heard of all of these schools and consider them very good but a little bit below the last group)

Group 4-WUSTL, Rice, WF, Tufts, UNC, W&M, AF Acadamy, BYU, BU (Very well known in there region, but less national reach, or reach based only on religion (BYU) or a much stronger grad program than undergrad (BU), and AF falls below West Point and the Naval acadamy in prestige in a lot of people's opinions only because it doesn't have the long history. I don't want to seem like I'm hating on WUSTL, but I only ever heard of it when living near St.Louis)

Group 5-Other State flagship schools (ex. Ohio St., Minnisota, Colorado) (Best schools in there states)

Exeter
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby Exeter » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:05 pm

WUSTL = back up for kids rejected by ivies

bogart
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby bogart » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:06 pm

fogcue2 wrote:I grew up as a military brat and have lived in almost every region in the US for at least a couple of years.

IMO for UG lay prestige (I realize that I'm leaving out Cooper Union, Julliard, and maybe even some engineering schools like RPI, but unless you are an engineer or in the arts...most people haven't heard of them)

Group 1 -Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford (Everyone has heard of them, used in TV and movies to designate smart people)

Group 2-Columbia, Chicago, Northwestern, Duke, CalTech, Dartmouth, Brown, Penn, Cal (Berk.), Georgetown
(Everyone who is educated has heard of them, though some hicks maybe not)

Group 3-Cornell, John Hopkins,Vandy, Notre Dame, USC, Emory, Carnagie Mellon, UCLA, UVA, Mich, BC, NYU, UT, West Point, Naval Acadamy (Educated people around the nation have heard of all of these schools and consider them very good but a little bit below the last group)

Group 4-WUSTL, Rice, WF, Tufts, UNC, W&M, AF Acadamy, BYU, BU (Very well known in there region, but less national reach, or reach based only on religion (BYU) or a much stronger grad program than undergrad (BU), and AF falls below West Point and the Naval acadamy in prestige in a lot of people's opinions only because it doesn't have the long history. I don't want to seem like I'm hating on WUSTL, but I only ever heard of it when living near St.Louis)

Group 5-Other State flagship schools (ex. Ohio St., Minnisota, Colorado) (Best schools in there states)


Cornell needs to be in group 2. and group 4 needs syracuse and bc. Other than that its a pretty good ug list.

skyblue
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby skyblue » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:04 pm

Good list except Texas should not be ranked higher than UNC. Texas is well known for its athletics but its undergrad academics are more at Florida's level and.below.UNC which is generally ranked near Michigan and uva among state schools.

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ndirish2010
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby ndirish2010 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:06 pm

LOL did someone really compare Syracuse and BC undergrads. Not even close to peers. Not even close.

Also, in the northeast I've found that Carolina and UVA are very well respected, almost treated equally. Texas, on the other hand, is a football school.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby paulinaporizkova » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:09 pm

fogcue2 wrote:Minnisota

really, dude?

fogcue2
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby fogcue2 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:21 pm

-Syracuse was thought of as below BC, everywhere I lived and is known only for Basketball outside of the Northeast where as BC gets a little respect in other parts of the country. The people I know who went to Syracuse got rejected from places like UNH, Maine, etc.

-Cornell is considered the easiest Ivy to get into (at least for UG) and I know too many people who turned it down for other schools in Group 3 to rank it ahead of them.

-UNC is strong in the south (probably in the Group 4 level...I knew I missed a few) but doesn't seem to have as big of a region as teh Group 3's. UT was on the edge of my group 3- group 4, because they dominate Texas (which is a pretty big place). In Texas it pulls the top students that stay in-state over Rice and SMU while UNC loses many top students to Duke and to a lesser extent WF. Florida competes head to head with Miami (but I viewed it as a backup school to get into when I applied for UG (I attended one of my Group 3 schools for disclosure)

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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby taxguy » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:22 pm

From my knowledge I would pick both Richmond and Miami for some specific reasons:

I don't like Richmond because their offerings are very spartan compared to that of most law schools. I just don't like law schools that don't have lots of choices. Also both Richmond and Miami tend to be expensive places especially for Richmond. Both aren't even T1 schools but charge T1 prices. Admittedly this is my personal opinion.
I don't like Miani for seveal reasons. First, they are quantity vs. quality oriented. They try to get as many people into a class as possible and don't try to hide it either. A tour guilde specifically mentioned this. Moreover, I know several faculty members there and all of them that I know personally want to leave Miami for a better ranked school. Third, it really isn't a student centric school. You are thrown into the mix and if you survive, good. There isn't any nurturing there.. I honestly don't get why their admission standards are so high, particularly for Richmond. Both schools, particularly Richmond doesn't have much clout for jobs either even for T2 schools. Anyway , this is my take on both places. I am sure some of you will disagree.
Last edited by taxguy on Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:23 pm

taxguy wrote:From my knowledge I would pick both Richmond and Miami for some specific reasons:

I don't like Richmond because their offerings are very spartan compared to that of most law schools. I just don't like law schools that don't have lots of choices. Admittedly this is my personal opinion.

I don't understand this post. Given the thread title, are you implying that Richmond has "great name recognition"?

scammedhard
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby scammedhard » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:28 pm

vanwinkle wrote:I don't understand this post. Given the thread title, are you implying that Richmond has "great name recognition"?

And I don't understand why you are replying to "taxguy." You know very well it is a waste of time.

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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby taxguy » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:29 pm

Yes, both schools seem to have great name recognition among applicants. Miami has a decent name recognition in south florida. Despite that and despite my being an alum from the law school, I never thought it was a good school and certainly not as good as many people believe.
Last edited by taxguy on Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:30 pm

scammedhard wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:I don't understand this post. Given the thread title, are you implying that Richmond has "great name recognition"?

And I don't understand why you are replying to "taxguy." You know very well it is a waste of time.

Hello, kettle.

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vanwinkle
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:32 pm

taxguy wrote:Yes, both schools seem to have great name recognition among applicants. Miami has a decent name recognition in south florida. Despite that and despite my being an alum from the law school, I never thought it was a good school and certainly not as good as many people believe.

Yeah, see, I've never known anyone who thought it was a really good school, so.

taxguy
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby taxguy » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:44 pm

No Vanwinkle, I am giving specific reasons why I didn't like both schools and why I felt that these schools didn't justify either the high admission standards or reputation that they have, unlike other posters who just cited schools giving ad hom reasons if they gave any reason at all.. . This is NOT simply because I went there or because I believe this is the case. I have researched both schools. I have seen both schools. Particularly at Miami, I am familiar with a number of faculty there. Thus, I have a basis for my opinion. There is a reason that Miami took a dive in the rankings this year. I am NOT the only attorney who feels about them as I do.

I don't see why you would criticize me for this and not anyone else who doesn't even have reasons to back up their statements! I don't see you criticizing or banning scammedhard for off topic worthless posts. I don't see you criticizing anyone who is giving an opinion regardless of their lack of basis for the opinion. Thus, why do you keep focusing on me? If I have misinterpreted your post, please forgive me.

Exeter
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby Exeter » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:54 pm

Richmond is not very well known and from what I gathered from my time there, it is a glorified safety school.

Also, my post above on Wustl was a mere joke. It is a great school from what I have gathered, however, the opening statement in all my UG books mentioned that it used to be a safety for the ivies.

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vanwinkle
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:58 pm

taxguy wrote:I don't see why you would criticize me for this and not anyone else who doesn't even have reasons to back up their statements! I don't see you criticizing or banning scammedhard for off topic worthless posts. I don't see you criticizing anyone who is giving an opinion regardless of their lack of basis for the opinion. Thus, why do you keep focusing on me? If I have misinterpreted your post, please forgive me.

I wasn't focusing on you, I was focusing on your mention of Richmond. It just struck me as completely disconnected with the theme of the thread. Richmond doesn't fall into the "great name recognition but bad law schools" category because it doesn't have great name recognition. Thus I was just pointing out that it's strange to criticize it here. I would've probably made the same remarks if anyone else mentioned the school.

Also, when I'm just posting in a thread, my moderating has nothing to do with anything. My responses to you (which were about the topic of the thread)) have nothing to do with whether a user deserves to be banned or not.

taxguy
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Re: ITT: Schools that have great name rec. but bad law schools.

Postby taxguy » Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:05 pm

Ok understood. The reason I mentioned Richmond is due to their very high LSAT and other requirements. This would seem to indicate that many law school applicants deem to to have a great name. Frankly, in our area of Wash DC/ northern Virginia, Richmond does have a very good name. Frankly though, with the same LSAT required, there are much better choices,which is the main point of my post.




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