T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

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ect88
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T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby ect88 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:38 pm

Hypothetical situation (but please throw your 2 cents in anyway, as my dilemma will probably be along these lines):

Full-ride at a T3 school versus partial-to-no scholarship at a Top 100.

I've looked at a lot of threads that basically come to the consensus of "follow the big name" when it comes to a law school. But it appears most, if not all, of these people have dreams of biglaw. I'm going for a public interest career (yes, I have faith that I will find one and be happy), so I know my salary is going to be very low. If I'm not looking for a big corner office, does the name brand of the school matter as much? Should I go for free or go for a more recognizable name?

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Tanicius
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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby Tanicius » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:40 pm

ect88 wrote:Hypothetical situation (but please throw your 2 cents in anyway, as my dilemma will probably be along these lines):

Full-ride at a T3 school versus partial-to-no scholarship at a Top 100.

I've looked at a lot of threads that basically come to the consensus of "follow the big name" when it comes to a law school. But it appears most, if not all, of these people have dreams of biglaw. I'm going for a public interest career (yes, I have faith that I will find one and be happy), so I know my salary is going to be very low. If I'm not looking for a big corner office, does the name brand of the school matter as much? Should I go for free or go for a more recognizable name?


Definitely take the scholarship. The only possible reason I would dream of not taking the scholarship is if the scholly school is in a completely different market than the T2, and the T2's market is where you positively know you want to work.

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ArchRoark
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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby ArchRoark » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:40 pm

Is the T3 in a region you would not mind practicing?
How much competition does the T3 have in that region?
Are their any stipulations on the scholarship (top 1/3rd etc)?

Having the answer to those questions would make the decision for me much easier.

A friend is a DA of a nearby county and speaking to him about school prestige, he told me that when his hiring he mainly looks for a commitment to the field more then the name that appears on the applicants diploma.

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ect88
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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby ect88 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:48 pm

ArchRoark wrote:Is the T3 in a region you would not mind practicing?
How much competition does the T3 have in that region?
Are their any stipulations on the scholarship (top 1/3rd etc)?

Having the answer to those questions would make the decision for me much easier.

A friend is a DA of a nearby county and speaking to him about school prestige, he told me that when his hiring he mainly looks for a commitment to the field more then the name that appears on the applicants diploma.


That's very good to know! Thank you!

Honestly, other than a remote place like Alaska, I could practice anywhere as long as I was near or in a sizable city. I'm not picky.

The T3 I have in mind seems to be very well-respected in the state, as the only other big law school there typically exports their graduates to NYC, etc.

No idea on the stipulations as of yet. I know LSAT/GPA isn't necessarily a 100% accurate way of telling how you will do in law school, but for what it's worth I have a 164 and 3.7

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Drake014
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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby Drake014 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:11 pm

ect88 wrote:
ArchRoark wrote:Is the T3 in a region you would not mind practicing?
How much competition does the T3 have in that region?
Are their any stipulations on the scholarship (top 1/3rd etc)?

Having the answer to those questions would make the decision for me much easier.

A friend is a DA of a nearby county and speaking to him about school prestige, he told me that when his hiring he mainly looks for a commitment to the field more then the name that appears on the applicants diploma.


That's very good to know! Thank you!

Honestly, other than a remote place like Alaska, I could practice anywhere as long as I was near or in a sizable city. I'm not picky.

The T3 I have in mind seems to be very well-respected in the state, as the only other big law school there typically exports their graduates to NYC, etc.

No idea on the stipulations as of yet. I know LSAT/GPA isn't necessarily a 100% accurate way of telling how you will do in law school, but for what it's worth I have a 164 and 3.7


Those are good numbers. My guess is that even if you were required to maintain a top 1/3 you'd have a decent chance of doing so. Of course, I'm totally assuming your numbers correlate to your law school performance. I could be totally wrong.

IMO, take the scholly.

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mez06
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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby mez06 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:24 pm

How about you get into these schools first and THEN propose your dilemma. That or allow someone else to live the situation. Pointless banter. Thanks.

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ect88
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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby ect88 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 5:22 pm

mez06 wrote:How about you get into these schools first and THEN propose your dilemma. That or allow someone else to live the situation. Pointless banter. Thanks.


I actually have gotten into the schools. It's the scholarship info that isn't completely set in stone yet.

Even if I hadn't gotten into these schools, I think it's a valid discussion to have so that anyone else in the future with a similar dilemma can easily find some opinions from which to draw. The odds that I am the only person in this situation are quite slim. I see no part of this that is pointless. If you would rather not throw in an opinion on the situation itself, I would appreciate it if you didn't make comments on the thread, especially with the attitude demonstrated.

Edit: That being said, thank you to everyone who has given their thoughts -- I very much appreciate the additional viewpoints!

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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby XxSpyKEx » Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:48 pm

ect88 wrote:Hypothetical situation (but please throw your 2 cents in anyway, as my dilemma will probably be along these lines):

Full-ride at a T3 school versus partial-to-no scholarship at a Top 100.

I've looked at a lot of threads that basically come to the consensus of "follow the big name" when it comes to a law school. But it appears most, if not all, of these people have dreams of biglaw. I'm going for a public interest career (yes, I have faith that I will find one and be happy), so I know my salary is going to be very low. If I'm not looking for a big corner office, does the name brand of the school matter as much? Should I go for free or go for a more recognizable name?


Yeah, but t100 is not a big name. t100 is functionally the same thing as a t3*. In fact, a t3 is non-major market without a ton of competition is better than a t2 in a major market. For example Hofstra is a ranked a t100 law school, but it's generally known as one of the biggest TTTs out there. I think this would be a very different story if you were looking at a full ride at a t3 versus partial-to-no scholarship at a t6 law school (although that would probably never happen because if you got into a t6, you would most likely be able muster up full rides at better schools than t3s). Prestige is important even for public interest if you want a prestigious public interest job (e.g. you aren't likely going to get a job at the US DoJ from a t3 or t2). But in your situation, your best bet is to keep your debt as low as possible (i.e. you are not going to gain anything by going to a t100 school over the t3 besides a shitload of debt that you'll have a hard time repaying without assistance through something like IBR).

*Functionally the real ranking, in terms of how employers view them, look something like this:

HYS >>>>>CCN >>>>>>>>>> T14 >>>>>>>>>>>> T30 >>>>> McDonald’s >>>>> Professional jizz mopper >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The rest of the law schools.

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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby justadude55 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:52 pm

ect88 wrote:Hypothetical situation (but please throw your 2 cents in anyway, as my dilemma will probably be along these lines):

Full-ride at a T3 school versus partial-to-no scholarship at a Top 100.

I've looked at a lot of threads that basically come to the consensus of "follow the big name" when it comes to a law school. But it appears most, if not all, of these people have dreams of biglaw. I'm going for a public interest career (yes, I have faith that I will find one and be happy), so I know my salary is going to be very low. If I'm not looking for a big corner office, does the name brand of the school matter as much? Should I go for free or go for a more recognizable name?

in my opinion, i would take the full ride because t-2 is not a exactly a sure thing anyway so it's a big risk regardless. if you're already taking a big risk in that you have not such great chances for 200k in debt, i'd rather have slightly lower chances but NO debt.

personally, i think the medium is the best. i have a full ride to some 20-30, but if i could a half ride to some 15-20, i would probably do that.

i would not do scholarships with stipulations like top 1/3, because at that point, what if you don't come in the top 1/3 -- you're totally screwed, because you aren't in a good situation for job placement, cannot transfer and you now lose your whole scholarship.

with your #'s, you should not have to be in that position for a full ride. i find the lower school, the more shady the fine print. better ranked schools (namely tier 2's and lower tier 1s) that may give you close to a full ride will not put ridiculous stipulations on it. do not assume any one school will give you a full ride as $ can be unpredictable (at least the amount of it). if your goal is $ as much as prestige, apply everywhere you get a waiver to, and wherever you'd want to go.

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dresden doll
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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby dresden doll » Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:59 pm

Take the full ride and run. For all intents and purposes, T2s are the functional equivalents of T3s.

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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby justadude55 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 8:10 pm

dresden doll wrote:Take the full ride and run. For all intents and purposes, T2s are the functional equivalents of T3s.

a full ride with top 1/3 stipulation is not the same as a full ride.

that's like a girl telling you she'll be your girlfriend only if you keep 6-pack abs and make 300k a year.

i'd rather take 1 of the many full rides you can get that say just don't get arrested and we're cool.

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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby T6Hopeful » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:41 am

XxSpyKEx wrote:Yeah, but t100 is not a big name. t100 is functionally the same thing as a t3*. In fact, a t3 is non-major market without a ton of competition is better than a t2 in a major market. For example Hofstra is a ranked a t100 law school, but it's generally known as one of the biggest TTTs out there. I think this would be a very different story if you were looking at a full ride at a t3 versus partial-to-no scholarship at a t6 law school (although that would probably never happen because if you got into a t6, you would most likely be able muster up full rides at better schools than t3s). Prestige is important even for public interest if you want a prestigious public interest job (e.g. you aren't likely going to get a job at the US DoJ from a t3 or t2). But in your situation, your best bet is to keep your debt as low as possible (i.e. you are not going to gain anything by going to a t100 school over the t3 besides a shitload of debt that you'll have a hard time repaying without assistance through something like IBR).

*Functionally the real ranking, in terms of how employers view them, look something like this:

HYS >>>>>CCN >>>>>>>>>> T14 >>>>>>>>>>>> T30 >>>>> McDonald’s >>>>> Professional jizz mopper >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The rest of the law schools.


Harsh, I literally laughed out loud at the "professional jizz mopper"; however, the point about t2s not being prestigious at all is right. Not saying that you don't have respectable numbers or that they wouldn't be good fits for you, but by no means is it worth debating a partial-to-no ride at these schools versus a full ride at a t3.

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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby CloseToGood » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:42 am

it really depends on the school, but you could get some very decent scholarship money at T1 schools with your stats. Also, a lot of schools have loan forgiveness programs, wherein if you go into do-gooder law when you graduate (for x number of years) your student loans are 'forgiven'. I suspect that this sort of thing would be more common among T1 schools that are trying to attract students who would make them look good because of their public interest work, but are concerned about the price of tuition/ability to get scholarships, just as you are.

bigkahuna2020
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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby bigkahuna2020 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:12 pm

With that money you can get a full ride at lower T1's. That being said, I live in a region with a shitton of them so I don't know how your region is.

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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby kk19131 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:18 pm

So, um... does anyone have a realistic interpretation of what constitutes tiers 1/2/3?

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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby bigkahuna2020 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:21 pm

kk19131 wrote:So, um... does anyone have a realistic interpretation of what constitutes tiers 1/2/3?


http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... aw-schools

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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby kk19131 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:23 pm

bigkahuna2020 wrote:
kk19131 wrote:So, um... does anyone have a realistic interpretation of what constitutes tiers 1/2/3?


http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... aw-schools



I knew some ass would post this.

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T6Hopeful
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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby T6Hopeful » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:30 pm

kk19131 wrote:
bigkahuna2020 wrote:
kk19131 wrote:So, um... does anyone have a realistic interpretation of what constitutes tiers 1/2/3?


http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... aw-schools



I knew some ass would post this.

What do you mean by "realistic?" I thought that T1, T2, and T3 were pretty well-defined based on USNWR. I'm not sure what else you could be looking for without any other parameters, e.g. national reach, reach across multiple states, very regional, etc.

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kk19131
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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby kk19131 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:31 pm

T6Hopeful wrote:
kk19131 wrote:
bigkahuna2020 wrote:
kk19131 wrote:So, um... does anyone have a realistic interpretation of what constitutes tiers 1/2/3?


http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... aw-schools



I knew some ass would post this.

What do you mean by "realistic?" I thought that T1, T2, and T3 were pretty well-defined based on USNWR. I'm not sure what else you could be looking for without any other parameters, e.g. national reach, reach across multiple states, very regional, etc.



Tell me, which schools are tier 2 on USNWR?

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T6Hopeful
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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby T6Hopeful » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:36 pm

kk19131 wrote:

Tell me, which schools are tier 2 on USNWR?

I thought T1 was defined as 1-50, and T2 as 50-100. Of course, I could be wrong, and I think the consensus is that much of T2 is realistically blended into T3 anyway, but I thought those were the generally defined parameters.

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kk19131
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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby kk19131 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:37 pm

T6Hopeful wrote:
kk19131 wrote:

Tell me, which schools are tier 2 on USNWR?

I thought T1 was defined as 1-50, and T2 as 50-100. Of course, I could be wrong, and I think the consensus is that much of T2 is realistically blended into T3 anyway, but I thought those were the generally defined parameters.



There is no "tier 2" on the list. It goes from 1 to 3.

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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby r6_philly » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:49 pm

kk19131 wrote:There is no "tier 2" on the list. It goes from 1 to 3.


:lol: I was wondering how long before someone figures that out.

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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby kk19131 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:51 pm

r6_philly wrote:
kk19131 wrote:There is no "tier 2" on the list. It goes from 1 to 3.


:lol: I was wondering how long before someone figures that out.



:lol:

ogurty
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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby ogurty » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:41 pm

Why are we talking about these schools with your numbers? I have friends at UCLA with those numbers.

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ect88
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Re: T3 full-ride vs. T2 w/ partial: Public Interest

Postby ect88 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:14 pm

ogurty wrote:Why are we talking about these schools with your numbers? I have friends at UCLA with those numbers.


Because these schools
A) Offer programs that I am quite impressed by
B) Have great scholarship opportunities
and
C) Are overall ones that I am interested in based on personal research.

Again, thank you to everyone who has thrown in their opinions! I've been considering each one.




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