Michigan (Sticker) vs Penn (Sticker) vs Illinois (Full Ride) Forum

[clint4law]

I want to end up in Chicago....not quite sure what I want to practice.

[Veyron]

Penn > IL > Michigan

(virtually everyone at Penn still gets a job... of some sort)

[gbpackerbacker]

Create a poll....

[johnnyutah]

Penn > IL > Michigan

(virtually everyone at Penn still gets a job... of some sort)

Not quite true for 2010 and 2011. There are some class of 2010 people who are still unemployed (one of whom is still working a full-time, unpaid internship).

[johnnyutah]

I want to end up in Chicago....not quite sure what I want to practice.

I vote IL full ride.

[BarbellDreams]

Umm, IL fullride and this isn't even close. If you are certain you want to stay in Chicago, getting a full ride (assuming no crazy stipulations to keep the scholarship) will do wonders for your sanity in that insanely oversaturated market. If you are a "Biglaw or bust" type then by all means take Penn/Michigan at sticker, but realize that coming out of UIUC with no debt will still open many doors for you and you will still have a decent shot at biglaw without worrying about what would happen if you had to work, *gasp* midlaw for that 75K. With no debt 75K is a good living, with 200K in debt its really not.

[IAFG]

never go anywhere you wouldn't be happy to graduate at the median.

it's too early to know if you'll be stuck with sticker. if IL offers a fullride, start negotiating.

[megaTTTron]

never go anywhere you wouldn't be happy to graduate at the median.

it's too early to know if you'll be stuck with sticker. if IL offers a fullride, start negotiating.

a-men. Sweeten that deal at Penn.

[johnnyutah]

a-men. Sweeten that deal at Penn.

They'd have to make it real sweet to outweigh the full ride + networking advantages of being near where he wants to practice.

[kk19131]

LOL @ all the BAD advice of going to Penn over a full ride from Illinois... to end up in CHICAGO

[Geist13]

Umm, IL fullride and this isn't even close. If you are certain you want to stay in Chicago, getting a full ride (assuming no crazy stipulations to keep the scholarship) will do wonders for your sanity in that insanely oversaturated market. If you are a "Biglaw or bust" type then by all means take Penn/Michigan at sticker, but realize that coming out of UIUC with no debt will still open many doors for you and you will still have a decent shot at biglaw without worrying about what would happen if you had to work, *gasp* midlaw for that 75K. With no debt 75K is a good living, with 200K in debt its really not.

eh. fullride does not mean no debt. Cost of living over three years will come 40-50K. that's at least 500 per month in loans, which is a lot if you can't find a job.

[megaTTTron]

a-men. Sweeten that deal at Penn.

They'd have to make it real sweet to outweigh the full ride + networking advantages of being near where he wants to practice.

ITE i absolutely hear you. But, I would go Penn over full ride at IL any day of the week, even if I wanted Chicago. Call me an idiot, and a prestige whore, but I'd rather go to law school at Penn. And if they threw a little cash at me, take that shit to the bank.

[kk19131]

a-men. Sweeten that deal at Penn.

They'd have to make it real sweet to outweigh the full ride + networking advantages of being near where he wants to practice.

ITE i absolutely hear you. But, I would go Penn over full ride at IL any day of the week, even if I wanted Chicago. Call me an idiot, and a prestige whore, but I'd rather go to law school at Penn. And if they threw a little cash at me, take that shit to the bank.

You're an idiot and prestige whore.

[megaTTTron]

a-men. Sweeten that deal at Penn.

They'd have to make it real sweet to outweigh the full ride + networking advantages of being near where he wants to practice.

ITE i absolutely hear you. But, I would go Penn over full ride at IL any day of the week, even if I wanted Chicago. Call me an idiot, and a prestige whore, but I'd rather go to law school at Penn. And if they threw a little cash at me, take that shit to the bank.

You're an idiot and prestige whore.

Respect.

[kk19131]

Respect.

I'm just doing what you asked.

[FlightoftheEarls]

Penn > IL > Michigan

(virtually everyone at Penn still gets a job... of some sort)

For a job in Chicago? You are out of your damn mind, kid. This Penn trolling is getting absurd.

[tea_drinker]

a-men. Sweeten that deal at Penn.

They'd have to make it real sweet to outweigh the full ride + networking advantages of being near where he wants to practice.

ITE i absolutely hear you. But, I would go Penn over full ride at IL any day of the week, even if I wanted Chicago. Call me an idiot, and a prestige whore, but I'd rather go to law school at Penn. And if they threw a little cash at me, take that shit to the bank.

I agree with megaTTTron. 200K couldn't buy you a prestige of an Ivy/T-14. But it depends on your career goals and how much debt-adverse you are.

[Fark-o-vision]

Yeah, I think the thing everyone is overlooking is the stipulation that he wants to end up in Chicago. That's a pretty ambiguous word, really. I mean, I want to end up in Los Angeles, but if I got a full ride from Yale would I take it over Stanford? Absolutely. If a DC or New York firm offered me 190K would I take it over 145K in LA? Absolutely. Because although I would prefer to stay in LA, my want isn't that great. For others, when they say they want a place, that means they need a reasonable assurance that they'll end up there. Some people I know would take 60K in LA over 190K in New York (and before it blows up, I know there are probably even more people for whom the reverse is true).

Just depends on how big that want is.

[Tanicius]

Penn > IL > Michigan

(virtually everyone at Penn still gets a job... of some sort)

For a job in Chicago? You are out of your damn mind, kid. This Penn trolling is getting absurd.

+1 That's just terrible advice, period.

I've heard that Chicago biglaw got hit harder than NY or LA, and yes it's saturated, but bad economy or good economy, Penn is probably the worst decision of all three. It's much easier to network with Chicago from Michigan and especially UIUC. I mean, these two two schools regularly feed at least a sizable part of their classes into Chicago biglaw; Penn does not.

Unless the OP gets UChicago or Northwestern, this discussion concerns Michigan and UIUC only.

[kk19131]

The sad thing is that there are people buying into the Penn trolling.

[megaTTTron]

The sad thing is that there are people buying into the Penn trolling prestige whoring.

ftfy. this isn't about penn bro.

[Tanicius]

The sad thing is that there are people buying into the Penn trolling.

I honestly don't know what Penn's strengths are beyond the fact that it feeds into NYC Biglaw. They have a shitty LRAP so they're a terrible choice for public interest, they lack the clerkship and academia prospects of Boalt and Mich, and they're primarily aimed at the the most oversaturated legal market in the world. They're a school that tries to be a T6 and fails. I visited the law school a few weeks ago and spent quite a bit of time in the law facilities for an extra curricular activity over a weekend. It's a lame city, an overly expensive area, and honestly their facilities are less well maintained than the bathrooms at my elementary school. I didn't even apply.

[Edit] Too much wine. I'm being overly harsh right now. I'm not trying to troll against the school; I legitimately wonder what makes Penn a better choice than its peer schools, or at least what would make it better in the OP's scenario.

[tea_drinker]

The sad thing is that there are people buying into the Penn trolling.

I honestly don't know what Penn's strengths are beyond the fact that it feeds into NYC Biglaw. They have a shitty LRAP so they're a terrible choice for public interest, they lack the clerkship and academia prospects of Boalt and Mich, and they're primarily aimed at the the most oversaturated legal market in the world. They're a school that tries to be a T6 and fails. I visited the law school a few weeks ago and spent quite a bit of time in the law facilities for an extra curricular activity over a weekend. It's a lame city, an overly expensive area, and honestly their facilities are less well maintained than the bathrooms at my elementary school. I didn't even apply.

[Edit] Too much wine. I'm being overly harsh right now. I'm not trying to troll against the school; I legitimately wonder what makes Penn a better choice than its peer schools, or at least what would make it better in the OP's scenario.

I don't think you should compare Penn, Mich and Boalt that way. Students at these schools IMO self-select themselves into different areas of law when they choose which school to attend. For example, Yale, Boalt and Mich have a high percentage of students who will go into PI after graduation because they have strong LRAP program, and because of their strong LRAP program, students with interest in PI will more likely attend these schools if admitted.

Penn, on the other hand, is not going after prospective law students with an interest in PI. I am not applying to Penn, but I imagine if I were going to Penn, I would do a dual degree with Wharton, or at least would take some business classes. These schools are set to attract different types of students, and I think comparing them using one indicator such as big law placement or clerkship placement is unfair.

[hokie]

I agree that it will come down to Michigan or Illinois. A full ride is definitely nothing to scoff at but I don't consider it the auto-answer (would you not regret taking UIUC over Michigan in the long run?). Having said that, in this economy, Illinois is the most sensible decision ITE [if you are dead set on Chicago].

[IAFG]

I agree that it will come down to Michigan or Illinois. A full ride is definitely nothing to scoff at but I don't consider it the auto-answer (would you not regret taking UIUC over Michigan in the long run?). Having said that, in this economy, Illinois is the most sensible decision ITE [if you are dead set on Chicago].

that's the funny thing about ITE. some people think free tuition is the "safe" choice, some people think playing it safe means the big-name school.